Lt. Aiden Ford/Rainbow Sun Francks Discussion/Appreciation

[Major Fischer]

I'm really starting to believe, as evidenced from my first post, that TPTB don't know what to do with him.

[keshou]

Interesting topic. I agree they haven't done much with Ford yet and part of the problem may be that he doesn't have a "hook". He's competent at his job (weapons expert, I think?) but not "special".

I'm afraid he may end up being the classic supporting character, there to nod knowingly or laugh at McKay or Shep's jokes or trailing along in the background. I enjoy seeing him but don't miss him when he's not around. Kind of like Major Davis.

I do like Ford's "common man" perspective. He's a character viewers should be able to relate to because we can imagine ourself in his shoes, unlike all these other characters who are brilliant or have special abilities. I do think they need to give us a little more background on the character and give him some good scenes. Right now, if he was wearing a red shirt, I'd be worried he wouldn't last the season.

[Markey2]

or even 'the token black guy'.

I get the feeling he may be "the token pizza guy" seeing as that was the most memorable thing he did in Home.

[Lugal]

I get the feeling he may be "the token pizza guy" seeing as that was the most memorable thing he did in Home.

I don't even think that was him. That was just how he appeared in Sheppard's thoughts. Like the way McKay and Weir appeared in each other's thoughts in the lab scene.

[ShadowMaat]

I don't even think that was him. That was just how he appeared in Sheppard's thoughts. Like the way McKay and Weir appeared in each other's thoughts in the lab scene.

So that means that even Shep doesn't think of him as being very important? Relegated to pizza delivery? And Shep had even assumed (perhaps jokingly) that Ford really WAS the pizza guy.

Of course, I did, too. I thought, "Wow, he's so adamant about staying close to Stargate Command that he quit the Marines??" But logic would eventually have cleared up that misconception.

[NurseRatched]

Interesting thread.

Here's my take: I don't think the "token (insert ethnic group here)" character stereotype thing is valid; we actually have two African-American/Canadian actors on the team (let's not forget Ms. Lutrell).

I'm wondering if the part of "Lt. Ford" was initially written generically, and then mis-cast. It's possible that Ford was initially intended to have a larger role in the show, worthy of inclusion in the opening credits...and then TPTB realized that Mr. Francks doesn't really have the strong on-screen presence that such a role requires. I'm really not trying to ber ugly here - but let's compare the roles of Teal'c and Lt. Ford:

Both are supporting characters.
Neither are given a lot of dialogue.
Both are African-American/Canadian.
Both are military/warrior characters.
Both are placed in alien/unfamiliar environments and situations.

Now ask yourselves this: Which actor has more presence?

The actor portraying Sgt. Bates, with less dialogue, less on-screen time and way-down-on-the-food-chain credits, made more of an impression with the audience within a short time. (Look at all the "I hate Bates" discussions.) Every time we see him we immediately anticipate an antagonistic character and a potentially tense scene.

When I see Mr. Francks in a scene, I wonder if he's going to have anything significant to say, and hope he doesn't overact. That's a little bothersome.

The role really really demands a better actor. The potential's there; we just need someone to carry the role.

[Lugal]

So that means that even Shep doesn't think of him as being very important? Relegated to pizza delivery? And Shep had even assumed (perhaps jokingly) that Ford really WAS the pizza guy.

"Hammond" said Sheppard was actually getting good at manipulating his environment. I wondered since Sheppard was hanging out with his dead friends in his bachelor pad, he purposely tried to put Ford in a position he knew Ford wouldn't fit in to see if he shows up (which means Sheppard actually knows more about Ford than we do ).

[ShadowMaat]

"Hammond" said Sheppard was actually getting good at manipulating his environment. I wondered since Sheppard was hanging out with his dead friends in his bachelor pad, he purposely tried to put Ford in a position he knew Ford wouldn't fit in to see if he shows up (which means Sheppard actually knows more about Ford than we do ).

I did wonder that, too. But how did he manage to "pull" Ford from his own reality without Ford noticing any discrepancy? Or was Shep subtle enough to be able to manipulate Ford into thinking it had been HIS decision to come over?

Very muddy territory any way you look at it.

[Lugal]

I did wonder that, too. But how did he manage to "pull" Ford from his own reality without Ford noticing any discrepancy? Or was Shep subtle enough to be able to manipulate Ford into thinking it had been HIS decision to come over?

Very muddy territory any way you look at it.

Since we didn't see what Ford did, we don't know how or why he decided to come over. After seeing his orders transferring him to Antarctica, he could have went over to Sheppard's place to ask for advice, opinion, or whatever. Hammond said they were all in separate realities, like McKay and Weir's conversation in the lab, only at Sheppard's place we were only seeing it from his point of view.

Or it may have been an illusion and Ford may not have been there at all.

[Adamixoye]

Or it may have been an illusion and Ford may not have been there at all.

Yes, remember the line, "I'm starting to wonder about you too"?

I posted something in the "Home" thread about this topic (Ford's development) that no one either was interested or no one liked (because no one responded to it last I checked), and that's this...if Ford is underdeveloped for a while, so what? How well do you know each and every person in your life, even the "main characters"? I moved out of my parents' house when I was 19 (I'm now 23). Since then, I haven't had much interaction with my youngest brother (who is now 15). You could say that he's an "underdeveloped main character" in my life. There are other examples.

Some people in our lives we don't know that well. And that's okay. Some people aren't that interesting and we don't really want to know that well. That's okay too.

Plus, isn't character development what half of everyone was/is complaining about with SG-1 S7-8? "Too many individual character episodes". "Too much character development instead of furthering the overall plot of the SG-1 universe". It's likely that the people posting in this thread are not the same ones posting those things, but you get the point. It's going to be very difficult to fully develop five main characters AND do a good story arc in only nine episodes.

Right now, I like Ford. He doesn't annoy me, he's added a few good lines. It's probably a good idea to have an extra officer on the team. But I actually DON'T want TPTB to go out of their way to do major character development if it's not just going to come naturally. We're not even halfway through S1...I think we can wait it out.

[sshspooky]

i haven't seen 'Home' yet (in UK, gotta wait a bit), but i have seen the firt 6 eps of Atlantis. After watching Rising, my one cmplaint was that all the main characters seemed to make an impact on me, accept Ford. he was just there as a military guy. I had fears then that he would become Mayweather n season 3 of Enterprise, just a paragraph an episode of the same old lines.

However, I do not see this being the case.

The other characters are being looked at, being explored a lot more. Ford is there and we can see him being a member of the team, being a military soldier, good for battle, making friends, having good interactions, and in 38 Minutes we discovered he can also be the hero.

Now, let's look at the difference in team dynamics between SG1 and Atlantis.

SG-1:

O'Neill - Military Soldier, Leader of team
Carter - Military Soldier, Scientist
Daniel - Civilian, Man knowing of mythology and conscience of team
Teal'c - Alien

Atlantis:

Shepherd - Military Soldier, Leader of team
McKay - Civilian, Scientist
Teyla - Alien, Woman knowing of mythology and conscience of team
Ford - Military Soldier

Now Teal'c drew of his alien culture and knowledge of Goa'uld to make him interesting. Ford doesn't have that, so it's a lot harder for him. However, I like how TPTB are using him. They are using him minimally, so that fans can warm to the character and discover things about him in small doses. I would expect an episode in th latter half of this season or season 2 to be centered around him, but presently I think focusing on the other characters is probably the best thing.

[ShadowMaat]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy the "introducing him in small doses" idea. He doesn't have anything unique enough about him to make him interesting enough to give us small doses. At this point he's more like a stock character than a full-fledged member of the team. He's there to say lines and to accomplish actions, but we don't really know much about him as a person. We've been given some personal quirks about the rest of the main cast and we know a fair bit about some of the recurring characters, too- Beckett, Bates, Halling, etc. At this point, to me, Ford seems more like a one-off character who hasn't gotten around to leaving yet. We know he loves his family and he's good with kids, but that seems to be about the extent of it so far. He doesn't have enough about him to make him individual yet.

As for the comment about not needing to know all the "main characters" in our lives... that doesn't work for me, either. First off, this is fiction we're talking about, and a TV show at that. The main characters of a TV show should be well-developed. That's why they're called the MAIN characters.

Adamixoye, you say you don't know your youngest brother very well now, but you knew him well then, didn't you? This is the first year of the show, a crucial time for development. Maybe later they can afford to "ignore" a character from time to time, but to keep ignoring someone who is supposed to be one of the leads of the show at a time when we are supposed to be getting introduced to them... I have a problem with that.

Of course, Teal'c didn't really get his "own" storyline until Bloodlines, which is a few eps ahead of where Atlantis is now, but as far as I'm concerned, Teal'c was supposed to be a little enigmatic- this big, strange alien warrior dude who decides to throw his lot in with the Tau'ri seemingly on a whim. But even that is more than we've been given with Ford, who is basically an unknown quantity for no good reason.

As it stands, I don't actually care that much about the character- because I know virtually nothing about him. I'd like to know more, but TPTB continue to deny us any real insight into the character, his motivations, or his purpose on the show. Some are obviously comfortable with not knowing anything about him- either because they think it'll happen eventually or because they don't care- but I, for one, would like some answers where Ford is concerned and I'd like them sooner rather than later.

[Adamixoye]

Forget my little brother. I'm in grad school. Let's try my research advisor. He's a "main character" in my life. I interact with him a few times a week, and I have a good idea of how he acts in those circumstances, but I have very little insight into his life outside of that. Same with Ford...we know how he acts on missions, but we have very little insight into his backstory. For now, I'm okay with that.

I just don't feel like I'm missing anything at this point. We're getting good stories, we're getting good development on the other characters. I'm enjoying all that. I'd be far more annoyed if we took time away from that to have "The Episode Where We Find Out About Ford".

Shadow, you said you didn't buy some of my arguments; that's fine. But I don't buy your argument that "it's fiction" so we should get to know all the characters. Why? Some great TV/movie work has been done by not allowing us to know the characters, so that down the road when we do find things out, it has more impact. (E.g. wouldn't it be crazy if he was a mole?)

I also don't get why we really feel like TPTB owe us anything. To say that TPTB are "denying" us this or that is really subjective. Depending on how they do it, they might satisfy your desire to know Ford better but also annoy me by taking away from the rest of the show. Hopefully they can find a way to make everybody happy, but let's not make subjective things objective. They're doing what they want, and we'll all see how it turns out.

I thought this was [I}very{/I} insightful:

SG-1:

O'Neill - Military Soldier, Leader of team
Carter - Military Soldier, Scientist
Daniel - Civilian, Man knowing of mythology and conscience of team
Teal'c - Alien

Atlantis:

Shepherd - Military Soldier, Leader of team
McKay - Civilian, Scientist
Teyla - Alien, Woman knowing of mythology and conscience of team
Ford - Military Soldier

From the beginning, it's been pretty clear that SG-1 and the Atlantis team were going to have lots of parallels, and I'm okay with that. O'Neill and Sheppard basically have the same role on the team, though the characters do have differences. McKay, Teyla, and Ford collectively are similar to Carter, Daniel, and Teal'c, but just a different mix for each individual character. To that end, Ford is going to be a different character, because he is a mix of Carter and Teal'c without all the background and/or quirks.

I just don't think the minimal character development of Ford is a problem, at least not yet. There could be much worse things going on with this show. And if it's not broke, don't fix it.

[ShadowMaat]

You yourself said you only see your advisor a couple of times a week. We see Ford in every single episode. It would be like having a show starring you and your roommate and never finding out anything about your roommate.

But I digress. Nothing I say is going to convince you of my viewpoint just as nothing YOU say is going to convince ME of yours. I can understand that your feelings differ, I just see things a different way, including the feeling that TPTB are denying us insight into Ford. I don't think it's some master plan to introduce us to him a bit at a time and I don't think that it's OK to basically ignore him when he's supposed to be a main character. I think, as Fisher said, that it's more a matter of TPTB not knowing what to do with the character- or worse, that they can't be bothered.

Yes, I've made plenty of arguments about building up good plots and not "wasting time" on frivolous character things, but I'm still a strong proponent of character development (real development, not who's banging who) and the way I see it right now, there isn't much character to be developed. If they want me to take Ford seriously as a character, they should give him something to identify him as an individual and not as a Stock Character(TM).

[RUhunter]

Ford is suppose to be the heavy hitter, the steel toe of the boot kicking the wraith in the ass. Have we seen that yet? NO! Will we? I hope so and soon. Its not like we will see any big battle scenes yet. Three wraith at a time for now, but as soon as they come en masse, we will see that he is a warrior and he will begin to develop more.