Jack O'Neill

[JT-2]

Sometimes, I feel like ya'll forget that Atlantis was directly spun off from SG-1. Guest appearances are inevitable.

NCIS is a JAG spin-off, and they didn't need guest appearances. NCIS far surpassed JAG in terms of ratings.

[Snowman37]

Woolsie was an SG1 character although not a regular. I always liked Lorne. He was kind of like Ford 2.0

Right, Woolsey originated on SG-1. I tend to think of him as more of an SGA character since he had a larger role on the spin off. Still... Star Trek: Deep Space Nine inherited two characters from The Next Generation. It made DS9 all the better. I don't get why people are so reluctant to embrace SG-1 characters as guest stars on Atlantis. However, I do get why people didn't like Carter joining the cast full time. Some felt Weir got the boot to make room for Carter, others felt Carter was being overused.

NCIS is a JAG spin-off, and they didn't need guest appearances. NCIS far surpassed JAG in terms of ratings.

Some spinoff shows are very loosely connected to the parent series, some are tightly connected. It depends on the nature of the spinoff. Fraiser was spun off from Cheers. Aside from Fraiser getting his own show, there were almost no ties to Cheers. A few Cheers characters popped up now and then, most notably Lilleth, but that's it. Star Trek: The Next Generation featured almost no crossovers with the original show. When Star Trek: Deep Space Nine began, the first season was full of guest star crossovers. This was mostly to help bring TNG viewers to the new series, I think. O'Brien, a recurring TNG character, became a regular when DS9 began. Worf was brought on after TNG ended. Then there's Star Trek: Voyager which featured a lot of TNG guest appearances over the show's seven year run.

In the case of Atlantis, it was very tightly connected to SG-1, hence crossovers were just inevitable. It is just silly to be mad the a spin off dare feature characters from the parent show.

[garhkal]

Now i will agree, we could have seen more of the 2nd string ones... Like lorne!

[Onealwasoverrated]

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine inherited two characters from The Next Generation. It made DS9 all the better. I don't get why people are so reluctant to embrace SG-1 characters as guest stars on Atlantis.

DS9 was a very different situation. For one thing TNG didn't run for 10 years, so the people wanted more Worf, and didn't really know too much about O'Brien. Those two were brought in because they needed a job I assume and to kick the ratings up on DS9. DS9 was almost or did eventually get cancelled. I can't remember.

SGA had an equal cast and after 10 years of the SG1 crew it was really time to pass the torch. Some may also look at the appearances as a sign of weakness. Personally I liked as many SG1 guest stars as possible because I wasn't that crazy about SGA in the later seasons and felt like the SG1 guests broke up the repetition of Super Mckay.

Another reason, it's a BBS board. People argue

[Snowman37]

DS9 was a very different situation. For one thing TNG didn't run for 10 years, so the people wanted more Worf, and didn't really know too much about O'Brien. Those two were brought in because they needed a job I assume and to kick the ratings up on DS9. DS9 was almost or did eventually get cancelled. I can't remember.

TNG lasted 7 years, 15 if you include the movies. O'Brien was a popular recurring character on TNG, the transporter chief. When developing DS9, he was brought over as a full time character, the chief of operations. Due to the third season's ratings decline, Worf was brought on for the fourth season. Michael Dorn was interested in reprising the role, the writers thought it would add to the series, and it would draw in TNG viewers. Win, win, right? However, you're wrong about Colm Meaney (O'Brien) and Michael Dorn (Worf) needing jobs. Meaney is a very successful actor (he didn't need DS9) and Dorn was doing TNG movies (he didn't need DS9 either).

SGA had an equal cast and after 10 years of the SG1 crew it was really time to pass the torch. Some may also look at the appearances as a sign of weakness. Personally I liked as many SG1 guest stars as possible because I wasn't that crazy about SGA in the later seasons and felt like the SG1 guests broke up the repetition of Super Mckay.

Well, when SGA began, SG-1 had only been on for seven years. The writers wanted to pass the torch, but SciFi wanted to have both shows on simultaneously. I loved it whenever an SG-1 character popped up. I like the Atlantis cast (except McKay). If anything, crossovers enhanced the show. I wish there'd been more SGA crossovers on the SG-1 side of the coin. We did get to see McKay show up several times on SG-1 after he was reintroduced on Atlantis, though. There was also "The Pegasus Project," one of SG-1's best episodes. The only crossover that seemed in your face was Carter replacing Weir in the fourth season. Woolsey's role in the fifth season was far less intrusive as he was just a recurring character prior.

[Onealwasoverrated]

TNG lasted 7 years, 15 if you include the movies. O'Brien was a popular recurring character on TNG, the transporter chief. When developing DS9, he was brought over as a full time character, the chief of operations. Due to the third season's ratings decline, Worf was brought on for the fourth season. Michael Dorn was interested in reprising the role, the writers thought it would add to the series, and it would draw in TNG viewers. Win, win, right? However, you're wrong about Colm Meaney (O'Brien) and Michael Dorn (Worf) needing jobs. Meaney is a very successful actor (he didn't need DS9) and Dorn was doing TNG movies (he didn't need DS9 either).


Well, when SGA began, SG-1 had only been on for seven years. The writers wanted to pass the torch, but SciFi wanted to have both shows on simultaneously. I loved it whenever an SG-1 character popped up. I like the Atlantis cast (except McKay). If anything, crossovers enhanced the show. I wish there'd been more SGA crossovers on the SG-1 side of the coin. We did get to see McKay show up several times on SG-1 after he was reintroduced on Atlantis, though. There was also "The Pegasus Project," one of SG-1's best episodes. The only crossover that seemed in your face was Carter replacing Weir in the fourth season. Woolsey's role in the fifth season was far less intrusive as he was just a recurring character prior.

Details! Details! Yes I had a pretty good idea that Micheal Dorn and Colm Meaney weren't unemployed but they do take interest in anything in acting in part because they are being paid to perform. Colm Meaney may be successful but he isn't above needing a job.

[maxbo]

No, having more of the SG-1 characters included in SGA would have done more harm than good because SGA's quality started dropping as soon as the writers connected it with Earth. When that happened, we went from a kick-ass Season 1 that was full of promise to a series that was frequently a lazy rehash of SG-1 episodes. As time went on, the lines between the 2 series continued to blur, which didn't do either series any good, IMO.

In addition, of the crossover episodes, I only liked one from beginning to end, Midway, because that the only crossover that fully incorporated SGA characters. The other crossovers spent way too much time on the SG-1 characters and because I'm more of an SGA fan than an SG-1 fan, I resented the hell out of that.

So, as much as I've enjoyed Jack over the years, he belonged on SG-1, not on SGA in any significant manner. As others have mentioned, there were too many overlooked, lightly used SGA characters that I would much rather have gotten more attention than SG-1 characters. Those SG-1 characters had already had their time in the sun and the writers should have stopped using them as crutches to cover their creative burn out.

SGA needed fresh ideas and to concentrate on its characters not SG-1 characters. Unfortunately, in order to have this, SGA would have needed writers who were willing and able to see both shows as separate and distinct even though they were within the same franchise. As such, SGA should have had its own writer/producers - independent of BW because he was too stuck on SG-1 to fully realize SGA's potential. SGA had so much to offer and Rising remains one of the best beginnings of a series that I've ever seen, but it's a shame that by Season 2 the writers tried to turn it into a copy of SG-1.

[Snowman37]

Unfortunately, in order to have this, SGA would have needed writers who were willing and able to see both shows as separate and distinct even though they were within the same franchise. As such, SGA should have had its own writer/producers - independent of BW

That's just it, though... it was basically one production team working on both shows. At the end of the day, Atlantis had direct ties to SG-1, hence SG-1 characters popping in now and then was inevitable. You don't have to like it, but this is the nature of a spin-off series.

[Skie]

As for focusing on characters such as Cadman and Lorne... eh... they were boring. SGA had a lot of great recurring characters. Cadman was good for a cheap laugh (the hiccup girl?). Lorne was good for leading a team when Sheppard wasn't present, but that's about it.

Cadman was the one merging with McKay in DUET. And they weren't boring, IMO they had a lot of potential. But of course they are starting to get boring if you give them nothing to work with and you see them only in the same settings/similar scenes talking basic stuff like to inform the viewers about what's happening. Unfortunately Sheppard's team always did the important things. For example, it would have been great if they had let Lorne's team to rescue Teyla in S&R because Shepp was badly injured. But instead we get that ridiculous scene were Shepp gets out of the infirmary, miraculously "healed" enough to lead his team.

In the case of Atlantis, it was very tightly connected to SG-1, hence crossovers were just inevitable.

I don't see why it is inevitable to see them. TPTB could just mention them if needed. Now, I don't mind seeing them once but it is only inevitable if you run out of story lines and need them as crutches as maxbo said.

[Snowman37]

Cadman was the one merging with McKay in DUET.

By far the worst episode of the series. I missed it when it first aired. This spring, I revisited Season 2 on DVD and saw "Duet" for the first time. I barely made it through the episode.

And they weren't boring, IMO they had a lot of potential. But of course they are starting to get boring if you give them nothing to work with and you see them only in the same settings/similar scenes talking basic stuff like to inform the viewers about what's happening.

Hence, boring.

Unfortunately Sheppard's team always did the important things. For example, it would have been great if they had let Lorne's team to rescue Teyla in S&R because Shepp was badly injured. But instead we get that ridiculous scene were Shepp gets out of the infirmary, miraculously "healed" enough to lead his team.

Sheppard is the main character, hence he's going to be the one to star in the season premiere and rescue Teyla. The problem with the episode is that they wrote Sheppard as being very badly injured. When he goes to rescue Teyla, it broke suspension of disbelief. What they were going for is Sheppard loosing Ford to the Wraith enzyme addiction. He didn't want to loose Teyla to Michael, it would have been Ford all over again. It screwed with his head. I actually liked the way it played out. As for Lorne, my problem with the character is that he was very bland. Kavan Smith may be a good actor, but I just can't think of a single episode where Lorne made me think, "Wow, this guy is great, he should have a larger role."

I don't see why it is inevitable to see them. TPTB could just mention them if needed. Now, I don't mind seeing them once but it is only inevitable if you run out of story lines and need them as crutches as maxbo said.

Why is it inevitable? When a writing team is writing for two TV shows set in the same creative world, they are often going to want to use characters on both shows. If the writers want to use SG-1 characters on SGA, then it will happen. It's not creative burn out, it's not writing crutches, it's called wanting to revisit a character.

As a writer developing three novels and more stories on the back burner, I am also found of using characters in multiple stories.

[Skie]

By far the worst episode of the series. I missed it when it first aired. This spring, I revisited Season 2 on DVD and saw "Duet" for the first time. I barely made it through the episode.

I loved this episode! Well, different taste it seems.

Hence, boring.

Well, THAT was my point. Of course they are boring if you don't write something interesting for them. But if you really use them in the episode, they get to start interesting, meaning NOT boring.

Sheppard is the main character, hence he's going to be the one to star in the season premiere and rescue Teyla. The problem with the episode is that they wrote Sheppard as being very badly injured. When he goes to rescue Teyla, it broke suspension of disbelief. What they were going for is Sheppard loosing Ford to the Wraith enzyme addiction. He didn't want to loose Teyla to Michael, it would have been Ford all over again. It screwed with his head. I actually liked the way it played out. As for Lorne, my problem with the character is that he was very bland. Kavan Smith may be a good actor, but I just can't think of a single episode where Lorne made me think, "Wow, this guy is great, he should have a larger role

Oh, I don't want to take his lead away but it doesn't hurt him if he for once is not the one saving the day (or McKay for that matter). IMO, that is what makes a character real, sometimes he NEEDS help.
Of course not, he didn't have anything great to play. Just think if he would have been the one in RISING going after the Wraith and shoot Sumner. Wouldn't that made him interesting?

Why is it inevitable? When a writing team is writing for two TV shows set in the same creative world, they are often going to want to use characters on both shows. If the writers want to use SG-1 characters on SGA, then it will happen.

Yes, exactly, If TPTB WANT IT! Thus, not inevitable.

[Snowman37]

Eh?

[Skie]

Eh?

Probably before you saw the edited version. My fingers were too fast pressing ENTER.

[maxbo]

That's just it, though... it was basically one production team working on both shows. At the end of the day, Atlantis had direct ties to SG-1, hence SG-1 characters popping in now and then was inevitable. You don't have to like it, but this is the nature of a spin-off series.

No, this is not the nature of a spin-off series. A spin-off is supposed to be different enough to warrant a spin-off, otherwise, why not just continue with the original? Furthermore, the fact that SG-1 & SGA had one production team was the problem, that's why I said I wished SGA had its own production team - independent of BW. Because from Season 2 until the end, I never felt that Stargate's writers saw SGA as anything other than an extension of SG-1 and that's not the way to successfully handle a spin-off.

I see others have already mentioned how Stargate should have followed the JAG to NCIS transition. And, CSI and Law and Order also good examples of how to handle spinoffs. In each case, the writer/producers of the spinoffs didn't use the originals as a crutch. As a result, each spin off just became more distinct as the seasons passed (the reverse of what happened with SGA).

In fact, I didn't realize until just a couple of years ago that NCIS was a JAG spin-off and, the only way I knew the Law & Order spin-offs were spin-offs was because Law & Order was in the titles of the spin-offs. That's how you handle spin-offs.

Cadman was the one merging with McKay in DUET. And they weren't boring, IMO they had a lot of potential. But of course they are starting to get boring if you give them nothing to work with and you see them only in the same settings/similar scenes talking basic stuff like to inform the viewers about what's happening. Unfortunately Sheppard's team always did the important things. For example, it would have been great if they had let Lorne's team to rescue Teyla in S&R because Shepp was badly injured. But instead we get that ridiculous scene were Shepp gets out of the infirmary, miraculously "healed" enough to lead his team.

I don't see why it is inevitable to see them. TPTB could just mention them if needed. Now, I don't mind seeing them once but it is only inevitable if you run out of story lines and need them as crutches as maxbo said.

I agree that SGA had great characters that didn't get nearly enough attention. Cadman was one of the best parts of DUET to me and it would have been great to see more of the character. In addition to loving SGA's main characters, regular recurring characters like Zelenka, Lorne, Chuck, etc. also added to my enjoyment of SGA. Because of this, if there was any extra time that could have been given to non-main SGA characters, then I would much rather that time had been devoted to SGA's recurring characters instead of the SG-1 characters.

Especially, when adding the SG-1 characters rarely had got the results the writers were looking for. For instance, I remember SG-1 fans being irritated that Jack was used in 2 SGA episodes when they were hoping to see him in SG-1 episodes with the other SG-1 characters. So, SGA fans ended up being annoyed that so much time was devoted to Jack and Woolsey and SG-1 fans were annoyed that 2 of Jack's available episodes were "wasted" on SGA instead of SG-1.

[garhkal]

It is a pity after all the time they put into her in Duet, she practically faded into the backround.