Michael vs Todd: who will be the last wraith standing as THE face of the wraith?

[ziga1980]

'Real' Wraith have human worshippers. From 'Common Ground' before Todd got his name.

WRAITH: The gift of life is reserved only for our most devout worshippers ... and our brothers.

Was Todd lying here seeing as the Ori followers carried on being devout even though 'Origen' never led any of them to ascension? I'm guessing it would be easier to fool people by saying they hadn't followed an ascension path properly so their minds and bodies weren't up to it. If Wraith worshippers had never met anyone who'd received the gift of life it would be more difficult to keep them devout.

Seeing as Wraith use humans for various tasks I don't find it odd for Todd to work with humans for his own advantage.

having your underlings do the dirty job is fine. having worshipers is even better. but i guess working with them is humiliating. try to imagine working with a cow...that's how the real wraith look at us. i think...

[ciannwn]

having your underlings do the dirty job is fine. having worshipers is even better. but i guess working with them is humiliating. try to imagine working with a cow...that's how the real wraith look at us. i think...

Spoiler:

Before Todd got his name.

WRAITH: We have a deal. Seven hives will join us in the fight.

SHEPPARD: Seven? You said twelve.

WRAITH: Not all of them were convinced that the mission was achievable, plus many of our ships are without Queens. We'd be unable to create new soldiers should they fall. If you prefer none ...

Each hive ship would have had a commander or Queen so these Wraith were willing to fight beside humans to get rid of the Asurans. This indicates that Todd isn't unique for choosing to work with humans under unusual circumstances. Even the other 5 hives commanders seem to have declined for reasons other than finding the idea too humiliating.

[YutheGreat]

Michael has honor. He's probably the most honorable wraith there is. Teyla lied to him and that's why he wants to kill her. Ronon never lied to him and wanted to kill him, that's why Micheal respects him.

Some might even argue that Todd's cooperation (resourcefulness) is a sing of weakness therefor he's not as honorable wraith. A real wraith would have used the first opportunity to kill rodney and as many others as he could.

You have a point.

One has to respect Michael's honor. At least he is straight forward with his intentions. I can appreciate that kind of enemy because at least he is not deceitful. He may be a murdering megalomaniac but at least he didn't lie about. I am serious. Yes, Michael may be more honorable between the two. I concede this point.

Todd's acts may moreso be for self interest than honor. I like both characters but as to who the face of the Wraith is that has to be Todd because he is still Wraith.

Michael will be the face of his own warrior race. The species I would like to refer to as the Uberatus (Uber- Iratus) the species he created. It will take a lot of work but they may one day be a bigger threat than the Wraith.

[dasNdanger]

I have only a limited amount of time, but since the 'worshippers, and our brothers' comment was brought up...there is something I was thinking about today....

Wouldn't it be interesting if they discovered that the Wraith's human DNA is not just 'human' - but specifically from EARTH. If they could come up with some way of explaining it - that humans who originally evolved on Earth have a special strand of DNA that doesn't exist in those who evolved in the PG - and then it's discovered that the Ancients had brought other humans from Earth (non-Ancients) to the PG (perhaps as punishment, slaves, etc - I don't know enough about the Ancients to know how they are), and that it is from feeding on these that the Iratus bug evolved into what they are today.

That would mean that the Wraith ARE 'brothers' to the humans from Earth (Sheppard, et al) - that they are very much alike, just as the Wraith have been telling them. It would mean that Earth isn't just another feeding ground - it would be 'home'.

I just think something like that would really shake the Lanteans up a bit - perhaps even forcing them to stop calling Wraith 'things', and 'it', and other demeaning terms, but accepting that they are distant cousins, worthy of respect as living beings.

Just a thought.

das

[GoSpikey]

Just a thought.

das

Nice one, das!

Oh, I've just seen in the telly guide! We're apparently repeating old ER episodes and are now at 21 of season 3 today, which means that, with 4 eps a week, Connor Trinneer will be starring in it on 17th March, one day after we have Vengeance on telly!

*Dies*

Oh, if only they hadn't said that they cancelled Numb3rs for now, cos then we'd had have him again the week after...

*g*

[Zanlee]

'Real' Wraith have human worshippers. From 'Common Ground' before Todd got his name.

WRAITH: The gift of life is reserved only for our most devout worshippers ... and our brothers.

Was Todd lying here seeing as the Ori followers carried on being devout even though 'Origen' never led any of them to ascension? I'm guessing it would be easier to fool people by saying they hadn't followed an ascension path properly so their minds and bodies weren't up to it. If Wraith worshippers had never met anyone who'd received the gift of life it would be more difficult to keep them devout.

Seeing as Wraith use humans for various tasks I don't find it odd for Todd to work with humans for his own advantage.

I agree with you, 'True Wraith' don't go around killing humans just because they happen to be there. True some kill for sport, aka Runner and Sateda episodes, but humans are food, and they can't afford to just kill of every human that bugs them. Wait until you get hungry then pounce.

I think Todd knows that value of a human goes farther then just food. He's smart to use this 'friendship' he's got with Sheppard, and use it to meet his own ends.

^_^

[GoSpikey]

I agree with you, 'True Wraith' don't go around killing humans just because they happen to be there. True some kill for sport, aka Runner and Sateda episodes, but humans are food, and they can't afford to just kill of every human that bugs them. Wait until you get hungry then pounce.

I think Todd knows that value of a human goes farther then just food. He's smart to use this 'friendship' he's got with Sheppard, and use it to meet his own ends.

^_^

Exactly what I think. ^_____^

Now if only he can stop deceiving the people he's supposed to be working with.

[Sparrow_hawk]

Exactly what I think. ^_____^

Now if only he can stop deceiving the people he's supposed to be working with.

I think "deceiving" is a bit harsh. Todd just plays his cards very close to his vest (or black leather duster) and only tells his allies as much as he needs them to know. It will be interesting to see the interaction when he meets Sheppard's team again tomorrow.

[GoSpikey]

I think "deceiving" is a bit harsh. Todd just plays his cards very close to his vest (or black leather duster) and only tells his allies as much as he needs them to know. It will be interesting to see the interaction when he meets Sheppard's team again tomorrow.

Maybe the first time, before time gets reset, he'll walk away? You never know...

[TOIVA]

If only Todd gained some real power, few Hives...
If he hadn't been betrayed for many times, he would already have an army of cloned warriors, ZPM's.....
Poor Todd, he always have to start from the very beginning.

And about Michael's "honor", he made himself a hybrid, that's really honor.

[naamiaiset]

If only Todd gained some real power, few Hives...
If he hadn't been betrayed for many times, he would already have an army of cloned warriors, ZPM's.....
Poor Todd, he always have to start from the very beginning.

in a way, limited power for todd might be for his own good. think if you were atlantis and a member of your enemy race, who you're uneasy allies with, gained power and could potentially pose a serious threat to you. do you think atlantis would tolerate that? I don't. they'd probably take the "destroy it before it destroys us" approach. it'd be nice for todd to regain the standing he had, but it'd hurt him in the end.

he was able to call up 12 hives and convince 7 to fight against the replicators, and not all 7 were destroyed, so he might have more influence than we've seen.

[TOIVA]

in a way, limited power for todd might be for his own good. think if you were atlantis and a member of your enemy race, who you're uneasy allies with, gained power and could potentially pose a serious threat to you. do you think atlantis would tolerate that? I don't. they'd probably take the "destroy it before it destroys us" approach. it'd be nice for todd to regain the standing he had, but it'd hurt him in the end..

Maybe you're right, but still, he's representing an old, experienced (I'd say noble) Wraith, who deserves more.

he was able to call up 12 hives and convince 7 to fight against the replicators, and not all 7 were destroyed, so he might have more influence than we've seen.

So how is that possible he's always someone's prisoner?

[naamiaiset]

Maybe you're right, but still, he's representing an old, experienced (I'd say noble) Wraith, who deserves more.

I agree.

So how is that possible he's always someone's prisoner?

he was prisoner on atlantis by choice. he needed help and I'm sure he was aware he'd be kept locked up.

it wasn't by todd's doing that he was prisoner on the hive ship, his scientist betrayed him. that had nothing to do with being able to rally the hives together. maybe he's just good at persuasion.

[TOIVA]

he was prisoner on atlantis by choice. he needed help and I'm sure he was aware he'd be kept locked up.

it wasn't by todd's doing that he was prisoner on the hive ship, his scientist betrayed him. that had nothing to do with being able to rally the hives together. maybe he's just good at persuasion.

OK, but he's obviously not able to persuade the guards of enemy prisons.

[naamiaiset]

OK, but he's obviously not able to persuade the guards of enemy prisons.

all he'd have to do is control their mind.