Why Stargate: Atlantis is cooler than Battlestar Galactica...

[Chrisisall]

Sateda was stupid. It was about cultivating more clichés and multiplying them in petri.
Just a perfect rambo episode for a character which has never added anything good to the show.
Of course, Ronan was much easier to write than Ford. Ronon didn't require writing. He could stand there, and be mistaken for decor.
Again, stupid episode with stupid writing.

Okay, let me use your thinking patterns for a moment...ugnnn...erghh...sorry, it's so Herbert...not used to rigid & limited...
There.
Pegasus was stupid. It was about cultivating more clichés and multiplying them in petri.
Just a perfect 'insane-bad-good-guy' episode for a series that began to lose so much forward momentum with it's established characters, it had to go make up new ones to keep the viewer's interest.
Of course, Cain was much easier to write than Baltar. Cain didn't require writing. She could stand there, smile and squint (OH- NOW we know she's not-so-cool!) and be mistaken for a pretty Count Iblis.
Again, stupid episode with stupid writing.


Ughhh...that was hard...boiling down complex emotions into a simplistic rant on percieved non-existent writing...how DO you do this so well, Mister? Tight focus on negativity hurts my brain- are you immune or something?
Actually, like Sateda, I thought that ep of BSG was excellent.

Cylons, written by people who actually know how to write characters, for people who watch good and largely acclaimed SF, a SF which doesn't require to switch your brain off to enjoy plots which are of the same level than kiddie animes on Cartoon Network.

Y'know, that last part was so eloquent & convincing, I find myself turned around here! You're right- SGA sucks. I'm selling my DVD's right now!!!
I'm getting REAL quality SF...is Ben 10 on an acceptable level, your Highness?

isall

[Naonak]

You're not allowed to say this. You'll make fanboys angry, and only met with mockery or denial. Keep your intelligence to yourself and go enjoy better shows.

Nobody denied that they said that, only pointed out that it's weird to rag on the writers for admitting they've made mistakes and want to deal with them, when all you've (general "you") been doing previously is ragging on those mistakes.

I think the word "completely" is important in that quote, too. Plenty of aspects of the characters and their relationships had been developed by that point IMO, but others (mainly regarding Teyla) hadn't.

[P-90_177]

I have only seen the first series, and from what you have siad thats even worst than having them loose EARTH IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Humans evolving in space? What a load of rubbish, we clearly evolved on Earth. We already had the idea and story arc of Humans evolving in space on Stargate with the ancients!

Yes and the concept was the same in the original BSG. They didn't copy stargate, they took it from the mythology from the show they were reimagining.

Besides. It's sci-fi, it doesn't have to make sense.

[Rac80]

Wow. Congratulations on either A) never having watched the show, or B) formulating your concise take based on five minutes of one episode.

Actually i have seen all of BSG. was a huge fan of the original (back in the day) and wanted to give the new show a chance. now I only watch it to heckle it. gives me something to do while I wait for SGA to return

I have only seen the first series, and from what you have siad thats even worst than having them loose EARTH IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Humans evolving in space? What a load of rubbish, we clearly evolved on Earth. We already had the idea and story arc of Humans evolving in space on Stargate with the ancients!

The original BSG had humans evolving elsewhere then coming to earth. LONG before SGA came along. and as for the "new" vipers... they are merely the recycled vipers from the original show which, yes, did look a lot like the ones in Star Wars (which caused copyright infrigment problems so the original was forced off the air). There really never is a new idea. everything gets recycled!

[Mister Oragahn]

Okay, let me use your thinking patterns for a moment...ugnnn...erghh...sorry, it's so Herbert...not used to rigid & limited...
There.
Pegasus was stupid. It was about cultivating more clichés and multiplying them in petri.
Just a perfect 'insane-bad-good-guy' episode for a series that began to lose so much forward momentum with it's established characters, it had to go make up new ones to keep the viewer's interest.
Of course, Cain was much easier to write than Baltar. Cain didn't require writing. She could stand there, smile and squint (OH- NOW we know she's not-so-cool!) and be mistaken for a pretty Count Iblis.
Again, stupid episode with stupid writing.


Ughhh...that was hard...boiling down complex emotions into a simplistic rant on percieved non-existent writing...how DO you do this so well, Mister? Tight focus on negativity hurts my brain- are you immune or something?
Actually, like Sateda, I thought that ep of BSG was excellent. Y'know, that last part was so eloquent & convincing, I find myself turned around here! You're right- SGA sucks. I'm selling my DVD's right now!!!
I'm getting REAL quality SF...is Ben 10 on an acceptable level, your Highness?

isall

Oh, you can enjoy SGA all you want, I just find this show more and more stupid and just a huge waste of resources and potential.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind people selling their SGA DVDs at all.
Trouble is, by this token, no one would even buy them, since I believe that those who enjoy SGA that much represent an audience that gives a lot of leeway to most unengaging pseudo SF. Beyond those fans, there's no SF audience anymore. You'd have to sell those DVDs as some kind of military action show with weird enemies and hope people don't ask too many questions.

[MerryK]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind people selling their SGA DVDs at all.
Trouble is, by this token, no one would even buy them, since I believe that those who enjoy SGA that much represent an audience that gives a lot of leeway to most unengaging pseudo SF. Beyond those fans, there's no SF audience anymore. You'd have to sell those DVDs as some kind of military action show with weird enemies and hope people don't ask too many questions.

I don't know about that...I've gotten three separate non-sci-fi fans hooked on SGA, though surprisingly they're finding SG1 too "sci-fi" for their tastes (though I have hopes of converting them soon).

[Mister Oragahn]

I don't know about that...I've gotten three separate non-sci-fi fans hooked on SGA, though surprisingly they're finding SG1 too "sci-fi" for their tastes (though I have hopes of converting them soon).

I think at this point, considering the success of SGA (still good numbers, but quantity doesn't impress me), everybody will be able to find examples in favour of a side or the other.

The few threads around this place, those which highlight what the show lacks, help a good deal to see how Stargate could keep the same dose of action, but return to a more reasonnable dose of humour, with science advisory (looks like it's totally absent these days, a pity for a SF show), military advisory (which would have probably been useful to avoid the horrible Carter/Mitchell issue on squad command, and would have kept Vala at bay, or at least written much differently), more lowball engagements (stop with the epic where Earth saves the universe and beyond), and more logic and good dilemnas.

I mean, hello, it took three seasons for the writers to half admit they barely knocked on the door of characterization. They had actors reminding them that a bit of continuity and more shades of grey would help.

Mallozzi and Mullie are capable of producing a show, but in no way does it mean they're producing quality.

When they're asked to cite their fave episodes, all they think about is non stellar fillers full of humour (which is understandable to some extent, considering their mutual origin).

Mallozzi and Mullie have written Scorched Earth, one of SG-1's most perfect episodes, but it's literally miles away from their tastes... which tells me that they were better when their "talent" was guided by people who had a better vision of Stargate.

These guys aren't really twats, but they're not the right people to put at the head of the show. This was a huge mistake, and that's the problem.

Instead of really thinking hard and trying to bring new people to the show, people who could stick to a better vision for Stargate, they played it safe, upped people to higher ranks, and voila. Of course, there's trust and all that, but there are times when franchises need to trust people with experience who've never been doing much about Stargate before.

Could you imagine, for a second, what, say... Babylon 5's Straczynski, could achieve with Stargate's material and budgets?
And don't tell me this guy doesn't know humour. Watch, for example, the episodes of Crusade to know that he painfully does.

[Chrisisall]

Could you imagine, for a second, what, say... Babylon 5's Straczynski, could achieve with Stargate's material and budgets?

Billy Mumy running Atlantis?

Being totally serious here for a moment (it's not what I do best, you understand), sure, I see that SGA has places that need work, and a harder sci-fi edge would certainly be appreciated (by me), but I see nothing wrong with "SF comfort food".The Back To The Future movies, Voyager, early seasons of Sliders...these are all certainly not 'hard' SF, but you come away satisfied, and sometimes, occasionally, even awed.
Bottom line though, I like the characters, and that's saying a lot right there.

Popcorn Chrisisall

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

I have only seen the first series, and from what you have siad thats even worst than having them loose EARTH IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Humans evolving in space? What a load of rubbish, we clearly evolved on Earth. We already had the idea and story arc of Humans evolving in space on Stargate with the ancients!

So you're dissing stargate now?

[chance2]

Oh I don't think I'm wrong. Being lighter means exactly the same thing as having less complexity. More complexity would automatically require more thought to be put into it to enjoy it. Take the example of Children. Which show would you think would likely be more entertaining to you children, SGA/Xena or Battlestar Galactica/Rome. Kids would like SGA/Xena more because it's got more mindless action and you don't need to understand so many mature concepts or complicated situations to be entertained by it. To a kid a show like BSG would be horribly boring.

I would beg to differ. A more complex show would require more maturity/intelligence (see my example of children above) but a less complex show need not require less intelligence. BSG would not put kids off because it's too dark and intense, fairy tails are often very dark and intense, it would put them off because it's too complicated and grown up for them to understand its concepts.

I'm just curious what exactly you feel is being "rammed down your throat" by BSG. I can attest that when I watch SGA I often feel like "Humans are superior/Earth is good/this is the right answer" is being rammed down mine.

I mean this as an honest question. BSG always came across to me as a much more open ended show in terms of it trying to preach to you who's right and wrong/good and evil and all that.

Hey, give kids a little more credit..

And I really beg to differ here

Xena more because it's got more mindless action and you don't need to understand so many mature concepts or complicated situations to be entertained by it.

Common misconception about HTLJ and X:WP. Yes it did have some throw away episodes where it was just for fun and whatnot, but the majority of the time there many of aforementioned factors that situated in various episodes. For example, having a character being raped by Dahak and giving birth to a child meant to take over the Olympian Gods isn't exactly mindless fodder for the children..

[Ouroboros]

Hey, give kids a little more credit..

And I really beg to differ here

Xena more because it's got more mindless action and you don't need to understand so many mature concepts or complicated situations to be entertained by it.

Common misconception about HTLJ and X:WP. Yes it did have some throw away episodes where it was just for fun and whatnot, but the majority of the time there many of aforementioned factors that situated in various episodes. For example, having a character being raped by Dahak and giving birth to a child meant to take over the Olympian Gods isn't exactly mindless fodder for the children..

Xena was a show with several layers. You could watch it for the complex stuff, you could watch it for the action, or you could watch it for the endless parade of hot chicks in leather.

It pretty much worked out either way.

I'm not knocking it by any means. It's probably one of the best examples you could name of a show that can both be fun and serious. It's the same kind of show SG-1 used to be and SGA tries to be. It's not what you'd call heavy adult entertainment though. Not like Sopranos/Deadwood/Rome etc type stuff.

[Chrisisall]

Xena was a show with several layers. You could watch it for the complex stuff

I'm lostisall

[Ouroboros]

I'm lostisall

Maybe complex is more of a word to use in context of "compared to everything else in it" but it did have story arcs yes.

[Mister Oragahn]

Billy Mumy running Atlantis?

Being totally serious here for a moment (it's not what I do best, you understand), sure, I see that SGA has places that need work, and a harder sci-fi edge would certainly be appreciated (by me), but I see nothing wrong with "SF comfort food".The Back To The Future movies, Voyager, early seasons of Sliders...these are all certainly not 'hard' SF, but you come away satisfied, and sometimes, occasionally, even awed.
Bottom line though, I like the characters, and that's saying a lot right there.

Popcorn Chrisisall

OK, there's something that needs to be said.

Don't ever compare Back to the Future to Stargate Atlantis.

The first is a truly original and entertaining trilogy of a kind we've not seen in Hollywood since ages. Characters were ace, and there was just about three or four of them really. Doc, Marty, his girlfriend and Biff (sorry for the spelling). Plus Marty's family, which were funny to look at. The trilogy literally mocked the concept of temporal non-interference.

And the Dolorean is waaaaaay better than a puddle jumper.

[runnerX]

Oh, so Kara didn't die in Maelstrom? What about the suicide bomber in Occupation? The main character in Razor? The thousands aboard the colonies in the very first episode? The thousands killed when Gena unleashed the nuke in the end of season two? Da'ana, the cylon who was switched off by her colleagues for her 'hallucinations'?

So I just imagined all of this?

I need to start writing scifi.

A lot of people died on the colonies. So what? A lot of people also died in the replicator war or at the hands of the goa'uld and the ori. What's the difference?