CANON: Sam and Jack are not together! ~Spoilers up to 4x03 "Reunion"~

[FallenAngelII]

Gatebridge? Besides the fact there are holidays you can take and they are still in a away working together, just not as closly as before on SG1. Just cause Sam is commander of Atlantis, doesn't mean she spends every single day there every year...that would have been the case before, but now they have a chance to get home. Besides, like it has been said. Weir left Earth with a relationship, and that was a time when she knew she might never be coming home again, or at least not anytime soon. Again...there are certain jobs you just can't say no to. And knowing Jack, he would encourage Sam to take the job anyway. Would you serouosly say you would give a straight "no" for an answear if you had gotten the chance to go to ATLANTIS?!!?

We're talking about leading Atlantis here. Nikki claims it's a huge duty and whatever. You don't take time off from leading Atlantis to spend some time with your off-galaxy boo.

No one would allow even them to use the Gatebridge just to see each other. They would need valid reasons to use it.

I wouldn't say no to Atlantis. But after 10 years of SG-1, 6 of which I spent angsting about whether or not I'd get together with the man I loved and then, supposedly, got him, I wouldn't go off to Atlantis indefinitely.

Elizabeth left a relationship behind. But she broke it off. And if you read my posts, I've pointed out that the main stance of this thread is that since Sam is now on Atlantis indefinitely, it means that she and Jack probably have broken it off (not that I think they were ever together).

They never broke it off, she simply left leaving him a tape to see her goodbye as she didn't know when and if she would ever return. She knew he would try to talk her into staying. She seemed to still consider them to be together when she returned home in S2, but by then he was in another relationship since he couldn't know if she would ever come home again.

She never said "Wait for me". When she got back, she hoped he'd be waiting for her (but, hello, she'd told him she didn't even if know if she'd ever be able to get back and he hadn't hear from her for over a year, except maybe one of those "Letters from Pegasus"-messages!). But she didn't ever say "Wait for me to come back... or at least X number of years.". People don't do stuff like that when their loved ones up and leave them without even speaking to them first. What Elizabeth did was actually very, very wrong.

[saberhagen83]

We're talking about leading Atlantis here. Nikki claims it's a huge duty and whatever. You don't take time off from leading Atlantis to spend some time with your off-galaxy boo.

No one would allow even them to use the Gatebridge just to see each other. They would need valid reasons to use it.

I wouldn't say no to Atlantis. But after 10 years of SG-1, 6 of which I spent angsting about whether or not I'd get together with the man I loved and then, supposedly, got him, I wouldn't go off to Atlantis indefinitely.

Elizabeth left a relationship behind. But she broke it off. And if you read my posts, I've pointed out that the main stance of this thread is that since Sam is now on Atlantis indefinitely, it means that she and Jack probably have broken it off (not that I think they were ever together).

But where have they said indefinitely? With the gatebridge there is a chance to get back home easy. Of course it's an important mission, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have a 2IC for Atlantis whenever Sam isn't around. I mean certainly they have people that can fill the void, Sheppard or Caldwell for example. It was a completely different scenario when Atlantis was cut of from Earth. I won't speculate if they are together or not, but there are big bulletholes in your theory that they are NOT together...

It's like saying Hammond or Landry was always on SGC. When they weren't there, there will be someone to fill the void untill they get back. I seem to remember a ep from S10 where Landry left Sam in charge while waiting for someone to take over so they could all have a day off together.

She never said "Wait for me". When she got back, she hoped he'd be waiting for her (but, hello, she'd told him she didn't even if know if she'd ever be able to get back and he hadn't hear from her for over a year, except maybe one of those "Letters from Pegasus"-messages!). But she didn't ever say "Wait for me to come back... or at least X number of years.". People don't do stuff like that when their loved ones up and leave them without even speaking to them first. What Elizabeth did was actually very, very wrong.

I wouldn't call that breaking it off TBH. More like putting their relationship on hold while she was gone. But I guess we see that differently...

[Nikki]

She's part of the USAF. The IOA is a civilian institution. Also, Atlantis is an off-world military base now, you say? It's an international civilian operation (now lead by a military commander, but the powers that be that controls her is still civilian), not a military operation.

I didn't say it was a 'off-world military base', I said it was 'one of Earth's most important off-world bases' no military...but the fact that half the personnel are AF and General O'Neill (AF) has a hand in the operations of the base it would be a great career move for Carter and her duty as a senior AF officer, with the most experience with the all things Stargate to lead her comrades in an alien galaxy.

You just argued against your own ship. You're saying they aren't together because Jack doesn't want Sam to retire.

When did I say that? I said they weren't together in seasons 1-8. Jack moved to Washington taking her out of his direct chain of command so they could pursue a relationship without her having to retire.

Fan service. Why would they even put the wedding scene in "200"? Fan service.

And a lot of fans want Sam/Jack together.

The PTB put it there to further add to the never-ending ****fest that is the "Will they, won't they?" of Stargate where they constantly hint at them wanting to be together, but never do anything about it.

Well, then they have to end that arc soon...either by getting them together (as you think they aren't) or by giving us confirmation that they are together (for the people, like myself, who think they are together right now). Either way

Sam & Jack are no more (and probably never were)!

this statement is hardly true.

That or I'll go with my theory of stalking. 10 years old photograph obviously taken off-world while Jack isn't paying attention? stalker!Sam! It's been obvious all along!

Yeh, I'm sure that's it. Col. Sam Carter USAF, kick-ass officer, experienced commander, leading astrophysist, all round genius and hot blonde a stalker...I'm sure...

Yeah, it's not official 'til we see it.

We will, that pic was from the set as you can probably tell.

Sam's Atlantis office
What I see:
* A picture of Cassie
* A picture of, um, Daniel in a tux or is that Jack?
* A picture of two people. You can't tell who those are.

Confirmation from JM's blog...it's a picture of Jacob (can't be seen in the above pic because the guys in the way), Teal'c (can't be seen in the above pic because the guys in the way), Cassie, Daniel (in a Tux) and Sam/Jack sitting together.

Yes, because obviously the SGC and IOA are going to allow that, for them to waste power, time and money to go see each other.

Not to mention that they have duties. Jack is the head of Home Defense or whatever in Washington and Sam's head of Atlantis.

Also, it's canon that Jack won't be in season 4. Meaning he doesn't visit the city anytime soon. So now we're arguing that Sam would forsake her duties in order to go back to Earth to have romantic rendez-vouses with Jack (who would have to fly in from Washington)? Obviously they won't see each other this year.

20 episodes can hardly cover 365 days...there are loads of moments we don't see. I'm sure if they kept showing Sam/Jack on Atlantis the Atlantis fans would get pretty pissed...so the odd hint here or there is fine.

[SylvreWolfe]

First, I want to say that there has been nothing, whatsoever, to even indicate they are a couple. And the way Jack always talks down to her, putting her down, and insulting her to boost his ego, why the bloody hell would she want to be with him?

But, not the point.

I hate this concept of *canon* to a degree beyond words. The very idea that viewers are incapable of developing their own ideas of what happened is insulting as all hell to me, personally.

[FallenAngelII]

But where have they said indefinitely? With the gatebridge there is a chance to get back home easy. Of course it's an important mission, but that doesn't mean they couldn't have a 2IC for Atlantis whenever Sam isn't around. I mean certainly they have people that can fill the void, Sheppard or Caldwell for example. It was a completely different scenario when Atlantis was cut of from Earth. I won't speculate if they are together or not, but there are big bulletholes in your theory that they are NOT together...

She's the new leader of Atlantis. No time limit. It's indefinite. Indefinite means "not defined". She's the leader of Atlantis until such time the situation no longer calls for her to be the leader. That is indefinitely.

How many times must I say this: They are not going to allow Sam to take time off to use the Gatebridge to go back to Earth for fun. People would become mightily suspicious if she took the Gatebridge home, say, once a month (and even that's pushing a relationship) and then hurries off-base to spend time with Jack.

You have yet to present proof to put such bulletholes in my theory.

It's like saying Hammond or Landry was always on SGC. When they weren't there, there will be someone to fill the void untill they get back. I seem to remember a ep from S10 where Landry left Sam in charge while waiting for someone to take over so they could all have a day off together.

Yes, but how often did that happen? You don't take days off on random because you feel like if when you're in such a position.

I didn't say it was a 'off-world military base', I said it was 'one of Earth's most important off-world bases' no military...but the fact that half the personnel are AF and General O'Neill (AF) has a hand in the operations of the base it would be a great career move for Carter and her duty as a senior AF officer, with the most experience with the all things Stargate to lead her comrades in an alien galaxy.

If it's not military, then Sam has no duty. She's a soldier and a scientist. She has no duty to a civilian operation making a request that she takes over as leader.

I'm sorry, the Air Force a lot to do with Atlantis? Obviously you've missed a few episodes as I'm not even if sure if the majority of the military personnel on Atlantis are Air Force. And they are hardly in the majority overall compared to the civilians.

Career, schmareer. Sam's already gotten to Colonel before turning 40. Also, she's already done things most people could never even dream of. It's not like making General is gonna make her life much, much better. She felt, after all, that she was leaving everything behind.

Let's see... further your career by running a civilian operation vs. friends, family, possible boyfriend/fiancée?

When did I say that? I said they weren't together in seasons 1-8. Jack moved to Washington taking her out of his direct chain of command so they could pursue a relationship without her having to retire.

Yes, and this would make things "Complicated", how? Sam told Martouf "It was complicated" in "Ripple Effect" (I think that's when).

And a lot of fans want Sam/Jack together.

An even greater number of fans don't. Because of how poorly pairing's been written. And it doesn't matter if a great number of fans want it. Doesn't make the storylines, story arcs and facts change.

Yeh, I'm sure that's it. Col. Sam Carter USAF, kick-ass officer, experienced commander, leading astrophysist, all round genius and hot blonde a stalker...I'm sure...

After all, in 75% of the time, all of the shipping moments in Stargate-history on the part of O'Carter has come from Sam. It's almost always Sam angsting over Jack and their "might-be". We've never seen Jack go ballistic because Sam's missing. We've never seen Jack break off relationships because of Jack.

And now there's the 10 years old photo she took of him off-world when he wasn't paying attention and looking the other way.

The stalker-theory might hold more water than you give it credit for.

And did you just insult stalkers everywhere by indicating all stalkers are ugly and stupid? Stalkers stalk because they're delusional, not because they're pathetic losers who can't find anyone (well, some of them might, but those were probably pathetic losers before becoming stalkers).

We will, that pic was from the set as you can probably tell.

Yes, but if they really wanted to tell us they were together, they'd take one just for the occasion. Or at least a promotional shot... one that isn't 10 years old.

Confirmation from JM's blog...it's a picture of Jacob (can't be seen in the above pic because the guys in the way), Teal'c (can't be seen in the above pic because the guys in the way), Cassie, Daniel (in a Tux) and Sam/Jack sitting together.

They're not touching in any way. There are pictures of Sam and Jack together. It must mean they're together. I looks like they're by Jack's cabin. Could be from "Threads" (and who took that picture, anyway? They were hardly alone on a romantic vacation). Proves nothing. Or must I pull out the Jack/Daniel pics?

20 episodes can hardly cover 365 days...there are loads of moments we don't see. I'm sure if they kept showing Sam/Jack on Atlantis the Atlantis fans would get pretty pissed...so the odd hint here of there is fine.

Yes. Keep telling yourself that there's tons of Sam/Jack going on when we're not watching. Until they actually say they're together, most of the hints point towards her being a stalker.

[silkie]

Are you one of those sad, sad little people who've been hoping for Jack and Daniel, I mean Sam and Jack to finally get together for years? Well, though luck.

So there were little irritating hints along the way and then it all exploded and went to Hell with 4x05 "Divide and Conquer", from which a Hellish story arc spanning 4 seasons of angst began.

With "Divide and Conquer", the "Will they, Won't they"-arc began. With lots of angst, drama and then Sam went and got enganged. And with Jacob's dying breath, he told Sam to ditch the fool and hook up with Jack in 8x18 "Threads".

So what does Sam do? She drives up to Jack's cabin and then goes all angsty when she discovers that, no, Jack hasn't been living the celibate life of a monk for the past 4 years waiting for her (all the while she's romanced countless aliens and even gotten engaged to a police officer) and... runs off.

Of course, the writers couldn't leave it there. In the very next episode (well, OK, so the episode after that, but it's a 2-parter), they had alt!Jack and alt!Sam get together out of the blue. Sluts.

And so Jack disappeared from the show (save for the few guest starring occasions) forever, gone off to Washington to sit behind a desk.

And the O'Carter shippers (or whatever you guys call yourselves) hoped against logic that they were indeed together (waving comments like "Are you single?" "It's complicated" in our faces), despite the distance.

Well, it's official now: They are not together! No way!

As far as we know, Sam is not a prisoner of the IOA, forced to do their bidding. Yet, despite feeling like "She was leaving her work behind" and leaving all of her friends behind, she left to be shipped off to the Pegasus Galaxy indefinitely in 4x03 "Reunion".

Why is this important? Because no sane person would elect to get shipped off to another galaxy when they've got a perfectly fine job back on Earth + a guy who loves them (especially not if it took 8 years to snare said guy!). Especially not indefinitely.

As for the now infamous framed picture in Sam's belongings:
http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....ostcount=17336

Um, yeah. So they've finally gotten together, their courtship coming full circle and then she leaves for another galaxy indefinitely. And the best picture she could find of him was a random photo taken off-world 10 years ago? That's what she's gonna bring as a personal item to remember him by? Umm... yeah. Normal people would take a photo with both themselves and their loved one in it. Or at least take a new one than one taken 10 years ago! I mean, if they're really together, she's gotta have more pics of him than that!

What this picture could be telling us could just as well (if not better) be that it's a one-sided love or that Sam's been stalking Jack for the past 10 years (I mean, look at that photo! She just took it using a stealth-camera while he was looking away and not paying attention and now she's brought it with her to Pegasus as a momento)!.

So, Carneill shippers (or whatever you guys call yourselves), weep, weep for your shattered dreams!

Sam & Jack are no more (and probably never were)!



Disclaimer: For those of you who didn't get it, this thread is quasi-sarcastic. It's not meant to offend the O'Carter-shippers but only to point out the hard cold facts while keeping up a snarky tone.

Dude,
1. You're in the wrong section! Try "Characters and relationships"
2. There's already an "Anti SJ ship Thread" so you're redundant too
Next time try using the search button...

LE: Shippers please don't feed the pathetic troll...

[saberhagen83]

She's the new leader of Atlantis. No time limit. It's indefinite. Indefinite means "not defined". She's the leader of Atlantis until such time the situation no longer calls for her to be the leader. That is indefinitely.

How many times must I say this: They are not going to allow Sam to take time off to use the Gatebridge to go back to Earth for fun. People would become mightily suspicious if she took the Gatebridge home, say, once a month (and even that's pushing a relationship) and then hurries off-base to spend time with Jack.

You have yet to present proof to put such bulletholes in my theory.

Oh...read my post again, I never said she or anyone on the base would go home every month! I said they have the chance to do so. It was a different scenario when they were stuck there in S1. I don't need proof to put holes in your "canon" theory, you do that easily yourself. You have no proof that they aren't together, that are holes enough when you say it's a fact. There are more proof to suggest they are together than the opposite, you only have to look at this thread.

Yes, but how often did that happen? You don't take days off on random because you feel like if when you're in such a position.

Like I said, do you seriously think we see everyday in their lives?! Or is a year 20 days long? How interesting would it be if they made episodes that contantly saw them having time off from their work? Obviously we see the days where they are AT work doing something to save the galaxy.

[FallenAngelII]

The Search function is broken. You cannot use the search function on any forum, ever... unless you have, like, a quote consisting of at least 5 words, then it might be easier.

Also, no one who's pro-S/J would go into the anti-S/J-thread. This is a thread for discussion between both sides.

[FallenAngelII]

Oh...read my post again, I never said she or anyone on the base would go home every month! I said they have the chance to do so. It was a different scenario when they were stuck there in S1. I don't need proof to put holes in your "canon" theory, you do that easily yourself. You have no proof that they aren't together, that are holes enough when you say it's a fact. There are more proof to suggest they are together than the opposite, you only have to look at this thread.

They have the chance to go back home and buy 2 tons of chocolate. Doesn't mean it'll happen. Or that it'll happen often. They have obligations.

There's no real proof in this thread. A 10 years old stalker picture and a picture of them sitting by Jack's cabin (a picture taken by someone else unless you're arguing it was by instamatic, probably in "Threads") hardly contradicts proof like how Sam sped off when she saw Jack had company (also in "Threads") and when she told Martouf "It's complicated".

Like I said, do you seriously think we see everyday in their lives?! Or is a year 20 days long? How interesting would it be if they made episodes that contantly saw them having time off from their work? Obviously we see the days where they are AT work doing something to save the galaxy.

No, but if they're really together, it'd only be logical to show at least one scene where it's said outright.

[silkie]

The Search function is broken. You cannot use the search function on any forum, ever... unless you have, like, a quote consisting of at least 5 words, then it might be easier.

Also, no one who's pro-S/J would go into the anti-S/J-thread. This is a thread for discussion between both sides.

This is still in the wrong section! I've asked the mods to move and merge it with the Anti Thread...
For the record despite the fact that I'm a rather rabid Sam and Jack shipper I don't think that they're together (at least I can't reach that conclusion from what I've seen on-screen)...

[saberhagen83]

They have the chance to go back home and buy 2 tons of chocolate. Doesn't mean it'll happen. Or that it'll happen often. They have obligations.

There's no real proof in this thread. A 10 years old stalker picture and a picture of them sitting by Jack's cabin (a picture taken by someone else unless you're arguing it was by instamatic, probably in "Threads") hardly contradicts proof like how Sam sped off when she saw Jack had company (also in "Threads") and when she told Martouf "It's complicated".


No, but if they're really together, it'd only be logical to show at least one scene where it's said outright.

And how can you say it's "canon" when it's not confirmed either way? You have yet to present any proof that would back up your story. It's simply a theory that you would prefer. I didn't say it was concrete proof, but there is certainly more that points to that they could very well be together. But it's not "canon" on either way.

Sped off?! She got a phone call from SGC about her dad dying, granted it was an awkward moment, but that was the reason she left...also a picture taken is very often taken by someone else, so what?

[FallenAngelII]

This is still in the wrong section! I've asked the mods to move and merge it with the Anti Thread...
For the record despite the fact that I'm a rather rabid Sam and Jack shipper I don't think that they're together (at least I can't reach that conclusion from what I've seen on-screen)...

This is not a run-of-the-mill anti-SJ-thread. If you merge it with the anti-SJ-thread, all discussion will be lost. I do not make threads or posts for the sake of 100 people agreeing with me. There's no point in that.

I can, however, conceed that I put it in the wrong section. I almost never go into Characters & Relationships so I kinda forgot it existed. I apologize for that.

[Shipperahoy]

I must ask, why the seemingly gleeful need to try to "prove" to people that Sam and Jack aren't together? While the S/J aspect of the show is something that I have enjoyed over the years I fully respect that it's not something that everyone likes or even sees and also respect said peoples right to say so but it seems that when it comes to you that respect doesn't go both ways. I respect the fact that S/J isn't your cup o' tea and fully back your right to express it but what I take issue with is the "Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah! Your ship has sunk suckers! Suck it up and face facts!" tone of your post.

If you feel that Reunion has somehow "proved" that Sam and Jack are not together then by all means make your arguement, but the baiting tone of your post is meant to inflame and is, honestly, somewhat childish. And using a "quasi-sarcastic" disclaimer doesn't change that.

[Caldwell's 2IC]

I hate the idea of Carter in Atlantis because that means Weir is out, but also because her being in Atlantis would mean she left Jack behind.

But, since when, pray tell, cannon has mean anything to us fans ???? In the fanfic universe, Sam and Jack are an item forever and ever.

[Shipperahoy]

I've decided to move the thread into the Atlantis season 4 folder instead of Characters and Relationships since the topic is regarding events in a season 4 episode. Since this topic is based around Reunion I didn't feel that it should be merged into the Anti-Sam/Jack ship thread but if it dissolves into just a ship debate thread instead of discussing whether Reunion did or did not show that Sam and Jack are together then it will be closed and people can take the discussion to the Ship Discussion thread.