Elric of Melniboné

[Sparrow_hawk]

Started reading Elric: Tales of the White Wolf tonight. It's a collection of short stories about Elric. Only one story is by Moorcock (The White Wolf's Song); the rest of the stories are by other professional writers. It's like the ultimate fanfiction. LOL The first story was funny. It was about some kid on an acid trip who gets sucked into Elric's world when Elric is trying to summon aid. The next one was a very short verision of Le Morte de Arthur where Elric feeds Stormbringer Mordred's soul, which he uses the energy from to call a barge to take Arthur's to Tanelorn/Avalon. LOL I think I'm going to like these stories. I really don't care for Moorcock's short stories (just love his novels and novellas) so this might be just the ticket for me when it comes to Elric short stories!!

Those stories sound like fun! I haven't read any of Michael Moorcock's short stories or really anything other than Elric. I may have to look for that short story collection, though. It sounds very entertaining.

I got my copy of Elric: The Making of a Sorcerer from a third party seller through Amazon. I've only read the first story in it so far, but enjoyed it. The stories are interesting and add to what I already have read about Elric's early life. And I like the drawing style of the illustrator and the pouty Elric on the cover!

[Starry Waters]

Those stories sound like fun! I haven't read any of Michael Moorcock's short stories or really anything other than Elric. I may have to look for that short story collection, though. It sounds very entertaining.

I got my copy of Elric: The Making of a Sorcerer from a third party seller through Amazon. I've only read the first story in it so far, but enjoyed it. The stories are interesting and add to what I already have read about Elric's early life. And I like the drawing style of the illustrator and the pouty Elric on the cover!

Oooo, I should get my copy this week. I went through Albris this time and the seller seems a little slower than they are on Amazon. I hope it hurries up and gets here. I"m getting impatient.

[dasNdanger]

I just ordered...

Tales of the White Wolf
Fortress of the Pearl
Revenge of the Rose
The White Wolf's Son
The Skrayling Tree
The Dreamthief's Daughter

I've got me some reading to do! I know many of these are Elric on his Dream Quests...much like The Making of a Sorcerer. I'm glad I read that first because it will help me get my head around what is happening in these stories.

das

[Sparrow_hawk]

I just ordered...

Tales of the White Wolf
Fortress of the Pearl
Revenge of the Rose
The White Wolf's Son
The Skrayling Tree
The Dreamthief's Daughter

I've got me some reading to do! I know many of these are Elric on his Dream Quests...much like The Making of a Sorcerer. I'm glad I read that first because it will help me get my head around what is happening in these stories.

das

Mwahahaha!

[dasNdanger]

Mwahahaha!

Evil bint!

Spoiler:

das

[Sparrow_hawk]

evil bint!

Spoiler:

das

*evil grin*

[dasNdanger]

*evil grin*

Sparrow - have you ever read any of the Dream Quest stories (such as The White Wolf's Son)??

While I await my books to arrive, I'm going to start reading The Metatemporal Detective. Looking forward to it!

Just wanted to commen on this question I posed to Mike, and his answer:

“3. Elric is a character in conflict, full of contrasts. One that stood out to me was, despite his gloomy, brooding nature, he often seemed quite optimistic that things would work out in his favor. At times this came across as something akin to a childlike naiveté, as if he could not – or perhaps would not – anticipate what could go wrong. Was this due to over-confidence on his part, or idealism, or just plain stupidity?”

MM: Arrogance, mostly, I’d say. Also I’d argue that anyone who claims to be a pessimist doesn’t usually involve themselves in action. Elric’s actions often contradict his own assessment of his character.

I like the idea of Elric being arrogant (hey, I like Steve, don't I??!). So...it's arrogance that makes him think he can win a losing battle? Arrogance that doesn't allow him to see the possible bad outcomes to his actions? Any thoughts?

das




Mike's Q&A: http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...atest-project/

[Sparrow_hawk]

Sparrow - have you ever read any of the Dream Quest stories (such as The White Wolf's Son)??

While I await my books to arrive, I'm going to start reading The Metatemporal Detective. Looking forward to it!

Just wanted to commen on this question I posed to Mike, and his answer:

“3. Elric is a character in conflict, full of contrasts. One that stood out to me was, despite his gloomy, brooding nature, he often seemed quite optimistic that things would work out in his favor. At times this came across as something akin to a childlike naiveté, as if he could not – or perhaps would not – anticipate what could go wrong. Was this due to over-confidence on his part, or idealism, or just plain stupidity?”

MM: Arrogance, mostly, I’d say. Also I’d argue that anyone who claims to be a pessimist doesn’t usually involve themselves in action. Elric’s actions often contradict his own assessment of his character.

I like the idea of Elric being arrogant (hey, I like Steve, don't I??!). So...it's arrogance that makes him think he can win a losing battle? Arrogance that doesn't allow him to see the possible bad outcomes to his actions? Any thoughts?

das




Mike's Q&A: http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...atest-project/

You are WAY ahead of me on the Elric books, das.

I haven't read any of the Dreamquest books as I am still working my way through the Elric series that I have in hand at the moment. I do have The Metaphysical Detective and have read the first couple of stories - they have a more Sherlock Holmesian flavor to them which I enjoyed.

I liked what I have read so far of The Making of a Sorcerer and I will definitely pick up some of the Dreamquest books once I get caught up with the regular Elric books. I'm just about half way through "Blood of Ambrose" which is the next in JM's BotM books and after that I'm going back into the Elric books.

I've always thought that arrogance is one of Elric's defining characteristics.
And it is certainly similar to the way the Wraith are portrayed - especially Steve. They simply cannot conceive of a world in which they are not the dominant species -- and it proves their undoing.

Elric's arrogance colors his relationships with everyone, with the exception of those he cares for. He just expects everyone to do things his way. The Melniboneans always consideredt themselves to be a race above all others, and the consequences of their actions are something they never really considered. One of the things that sets Elric apart at the beginning of the tale is that he does think about the consequences - even though he usually dismisses those thoughts.

I'm not sure that it is his arrogance that makes him think he can win a losing battle - if you are referring to his ultimate defeat in Stormbringer. As I see it, Elric is locked in a struggle to determine whether or not he truly has free will. He is pushed around so by "fate" or "destiny" or whatever you (or he) chooses to call it and it chafes him. He was raised to know of the forces of Law and Chaos, but always has that niggling little doubt about whether these are the ultimate forces in the Universe or whether those gods are just pawns in the hands of an even higher power. That's a lot to think about. No wonder the poor guy gets depressed. And once you mix in the whole notion of the Eternal Champion being destined to fight on the side of Law or Chaos seemingly at random based on the need for keeping balance in the Universe - it boggles the mind.

I like MM's comment on Elric's actions being at odds with his assessment of himself. I hadn't really given it a lot of thought, but Elric is often very dismissive of the good that he does. And he often refuses to accept that he is worthy of the friendship (or love) of others. I expect, though, that he is leery of getting too close to people because bad things often happen to those he loves.

Okay, I've rambled enough. I have an early morning tomorrow and I have to get some sleep.

Everyone else who is reading Elric, please chime in with your impressions.

[dasNdanger]

You are WAY ahead of me on the Elric books, das.

I haven't read any of the Dreamquest books as I am still working my way through the Elric series that I have in hand at the moment. I do have The Metaphysical Detective and have read the first couple of stories - they have a more Sherlock Holmesian flavor to them which I enjoyed.

I just read the first story in TMD and really enjoyed it! Guh...I have so much to read, too...comics are backing up again because of Elric, and - obviously - my computer time is way down, too. That's probably not a bad thing...

I liked what I have read so far of The Making of a Sorcerer and I will definitely pick up some of the Dreamquest books once I get caught up with the regular Elric books. I'm just about half way through "Blood of Ambrose" which is the next in JM's BotM books and after that I'm going back into the Elric books.

I just ordered Michael Moorcock's Multiverse - it's a graphic novel collecting a short comic book run of 12 issues, I believe. I think Duke Elric is part of it. I hope it's what I *think* it is.

I really want to read the Dreamquest books. Elric is a bit different as Zenith (or whatever part of Elric Zenith is) - he's not so gloomy. Will be interesting to see what he's like as whoever he is in the Dreamquest books (is it also a von Bek?)

What was your take on Zenith, btw - when he transformed at the end of the first story? Is this just Elric in a dream state, an astral projection, or what? I do have a time getting my head around the multiverse and its Champions!

I've always thought that arrogance is one of Elric's defining characteristics.
And it is certainly similar to the way the Wraith are portrayed - especially Steve. They simply cannot conceive of a world in which they are not the dominant species -- and it proves their undoing.

Elric's arrogance colors his relationships with everyone, with the exception of those he cares for. He just expects everyone to do things his way. The Melniboneans always consideredt themselves to be a race above all others, and the consequences of their actions are something they never really considered. One of the things that sets Elric apart at the beginning of the tale is that he does think about the consequences - even though he usually dismisses those thoughts.

I suppose his arrogance translated to me as thick-headedness - or, as Mr. Das called it - stupidity. But he wasn't a stupid man, instead - just as you said - he could not conceive of a world where he was not in control in some way. Still, that arrogance - that belief that he could 'fix' whatever was wrong, or that he had the right to destroy whoever he hated - that's what drove him to action, despite his weakness. And that arrogance came back to bite him on the arse a few times - when he thought he could control Stormbringer, when he thought he could spare his cousin's life and it would be for the good, and when he thought he could come back home, and everything would be returned to him. He assumed because he willed it, it would be. (I am the EXACT opposite in this...lol. )

I'm not sure that it is his arrogance that makes him think he can win a losing battle - if you are referring to his ultimate defeat in Stormbringer. As I see it, Elric is locked in a struggle to determine whether or not he truly has free will. He is pushed around so by "fate" or "destiny" or whatever you (or he) chooses to call it and it chafes him. He was raised to know of the forces of Law and Chaos, but always has that niggling little doubt about whether these are the ultimate forces in the Universe or whether those gods are just pawns in the hands of an even higher power. That's a lot to think about. No wonder the poor guy gets depressed. And once you mix in the whole notion of the Eternal Champion being destined to fight on the side of Law or Chaos seemingly at random based on the need for keeping balance in the Universe - it boggles the mind.

No...I didn't think of it in the context of his ultimate fate, because it seems to me that Elric accepted his fate...that was his choice. He could have returned to the Lords of Chaos, and they would have made him a 'god' - but instead he chose to continuing fighting for Law, and for Balance. I think he made up his mind that that's how it would be for him...I never had the impression that he thought he could cheat death, just that he never thought it would come at the point of Stormbringer's blade.

I was thinking more along the lines of some of his actions - invading The Dreaming City and believing that battle won. Believing he could spare his evil cousin and that his cousin would honor him for it. Believing that he could make deals with Arioch at no cost to himself. Those sorts of things...

I like MM's comment on Elric's actions being at odds with his assessment of himself. I hadn't really given it a lot of thought, but Elric is often very dismissive of the good that he does. And he often refuses to accept that he is worthy of the friendship (or love) of others. I expect, though, that he is leery of getting too close to people because bad things often happen to those he loves.

In reading through Mike's comments, it does seem that he strongly suggests that Elric is a character in conflict - doubting his own abilities, for instance, even though he has shown his wisdom and strength on many an occasion, without sword or sorcery. But instead he relies on these things, thinking it's his only hope. There's a good part about this in The Making of a Sorcerer, where he begs Arioch to give him the sword, only to find that aid has already come in a more earthly form, based on a respect for his actions and his word. So...he didn't wait...he rushed to seek aid from Arioch, when his own nobel actions had already earned him the respect and help of others.

Yes - he truly did doubt his own abilities.

Okay, I've rambled enough. I have an early morning tomorrow and I have to get some sleep.

Everyone else who is reading Elric, please chime in with your impressions.

You've never rambled enough! And yes - I hope others will start joining in, now that we all have a few stories under our belts. We've discussed the things on the surface (the basic stories, the artist renditions, etc), but we have yet to fully dissect Elric's character, always a favorite of mine!


das

[LiquidSky]

I just got Elric: The Making of a Sorcerer and I read the first few pages. I didn't know Sadric, Elric's father hated his son. She die in child birth and Sadric blamed him for that and, being called "weak" and "thin-blooded". Poor Elric the cards were stacked against him probably before he was even born. He didn't receive a lot of love thought out his life, poor guy. I think the only people in his life who truly loved him unconditionally was Cymoril, Zarozinia (sp?) and Moonglum. It makes you sad and you want to hug him and, love him even more.

No wonder Elric became arrogant and depressed wanting to do the right thing. I think he wanted people to accept him for himself. Yes, he was partly responsible for the down fall of Melinbone but, Melinbone was all ready on the decline. No, he was not responible for Cymoril's death Yurkoon pushed her toward Stormbringer. That was Yurkoon's plan all along he didn't want Elric to have Cymoril and the Ruby throne. Yurkoon was a ba*****d and, a loser!. And, just think Elric gave Yurkoon a second chance. I wanted to go in there and beat up Yurkoon Ok, I'm ranting! Oh the power of fictional characters when they have you in their grasp.

LS

[dasNdanger]

I just got Elric: The Making of a Sorcerer and I read the first few pages. I didn't know Sadric, Elric's father hated his son. She die in child birth and Sadric blamed him for that and, being called "weak" and "thin-blooded". Poor Elric the cards were stacked against him probably before he was even born. He didn't receive a lot of love thought out his life, poor guy. I think the only people in his life who truly loved him unconditionally was Cymoril, Zarozinia (sp?) and Moonglum. It makes you sad and you want to hug him and, love him even more.

No wonder Elric became arrogant and depressed wanting to do the right thing. I think he wanted people to accept him for himself. Yes, he was partly responsible for the down fall of Melinbone but, Melinbone was all ready on the decline. No, he was not responible for Cymoril's death Yurkoon pushed her toward Stormbringer. That was Yurkoon's plan all along he didn't want Elric to have Cymoril and the Ruby throne. Yurkoon was a ba*****d and, a loser!. And, just think Elric gave Yurkoon a second chance. I wanted to go in there and beat up Yurkoon Ok, I'm ranting! Oh the power of fictional characters when they have you in their grasp.

LS

I love you.

Yes...Elric didn't get the love he should have as a child, and yet he ended up loving more passionately - dare I say more violently - than any Melnibonéan ever could. At least he does eventually find love - albeit fleeting love - but still love nonetheless...from all those you mentioned, and then some. Perhaps others sensed his need to be loved, and couldn't resist giving of themselves to him. I think that's why I loved The Sleeping Sorceress so much - you get a real feel for how much Moonglum cares for Elric (which is revealed even more so in The Stealer of Souls and Stormbringer). But that someone could look upon Elric - know of his savagery in battle, the shame of his weaknesses, the extent of his 'crimes' against his friends and his people - and still care for him speaks volumes about his GOOD qualities. There was an underlying kindness, delicacy...an underlying desire to be a better person...and it obviously showed. He was kind...he just never realized his own goodness.

Poor lamb.


das

[LiquidSky]

Well, I need to log off so, I can read more Elric. Everyone here is further ahead than me on the Elric saga and my keyboard is acting up probably need to change the battery

LS

[dasNdanger]

I just got Michael Moorcock's Multiverse - a graphic novel combining a 12-issue comic book run, with a lot of Elric in it! Elric, Zenith - the whole deal. Looks very interesting...and perhaps a bit complicated, but I think it has much to do with Elric and his role as Eternal Champion. Looking forward to reading it.

This is the cover of the graphic novel/trade paperback:

Spoiler:

Cover art of Elric and Zenith from one of the individual comics:

Spoiler:

Mind you - this is supposed to be a VERY confusing story, even for diehard Moorcock fans. So, it may not be everyone's cuppa. But I'm really starting to get my head around Mike's multiverse concepts, so I think I'll be able to read and enjoy it.

das

[Sparrow_hawk]

I just got Michael Moorcock's Multiverse - a graphic novel combining a 12-issue comic book run, with a lot of Elric in it! Elric, Zenith - the whole deal. Looks very interesting...and perhaps a bit complicated, but I think it has much to do with Elric and his role as Eternal Champion. Looking forward to reading it.

This is the cover of the graphic novel/trade paperback:

Spoiler:

Cover art of Elric and Zenith from one of the individual comics:

Spoiler:

Mind you - this is supposed to be a VERY confusing story, even for diehard Moorcock fans. So, it may not be everyone's cuppa. But I'm really starting to get my head around Mike's multiverse concepts, so I think I'll be able to read and enjoy it.

das

Please keep us posted on your progress. I think I've got a vague understanding of the multiverse concept, at least as it applies to Elric. I'm not sure I've got a full understanding of how the Eternal Champion thing - rebirth/reincarnation for some? extremely long life for others? how much do they remember of their former selves? etc. Still working through all of that.

Hmm. Elric's chin is too big and square in those pictures. He looks more like Conan the Barbarian with white hair. But I like the way they drew Zenith.

Just my opinion, though - we all have our own mental image of Elric.

[dasNdanger]

Please keep us posted on your progress. I think I've got a vague understanding of the multiverse concept, at least as it applies to Elric. I'm not sure I've got a full understanding of how the Eternal Champion thing - rebirth/reincarnation for some? extremely long life for others? how much do they remember of their former selves? etc. Still working through all of that.

Hmm. Elric's chin is too big and square in those pictures. He looks more like Conan the Barbarian with white hair. But I like the way they drew Zenith.

Just my opinion, though - we all have our own mental image of Elric.

Yeah - Elric is supposed to have a narrow chin (I think his people are described as having a 'tapered' head). In the story I think he has a narrower chin - can't remember. It's a very complicated story, with Hitler in it, and everything! They say it's part of the 'Second Ether' series - not really sure what that means as far as the multiverse goes...

Speaking of which - I'm learning to just 'accept' the multiverse - not question it too much because the more I read, the more answers I get. Sometimes more questions, too.


das