CHUCK (NBC) - News/Discussion/Speculation SPOILERS

[Killdeer]

Spoiler:

The cabin was seen in the Season 3 episode, Chuck vs. the Living Dead, but it wasn't blown up. It was the home that Chuck and Ellie grew up in that was blown up in the Season 4 episode, Chuck vs. The First Fight. Chuck's father had a lair underneath the house.

No, I know that.

Spoiler:

I just thought I remembered the cabin being destroyed too, when Chuck and his dad and Sarah had the fight out there with the Ring. But I guess I'm remembering wrong.

[Atlantis4Life]

Hey Chucksters!

Okay, I have a question that I'm hoping someone can answer for me. Don't throw lettuce at me, but I stopped watching this show after the first few episodes of season 4 for a few reasons I can elaborate on if anyone wants to know.

Anyhoo, my question is this: Is the season getting better?

Is it more like the classic Chuck of seasons 1-2? I understand that the character can't be the same as he was during those first 2 seasons because he was learning to be a spy and now he is a spy, as well as a few other things have changed - for everyone. However, I'm hoping that some of the cheesiness that I saw at the beginning of season 4 has died down to the fun wink at the camera that I enjoyed the first 3 seasons, and especially the first 2. Is the Ms. Frost storyline a good one? I was thinking that just after they had reunited with their dad that it was a bit convenient that as soon as he dies now it's time to look for mom. I don't know. I wish Shaw had never been a psychopath and they had done a killer Ring storyline where he, Chuck, Sarah, and Casey were looking to find who put out the hit for Shaw's wife, and why...

Well, any responses will be appreciated since I'll be going off of any advice I get here to decide whether or not to try picking the show back up again.

Cheers, and thanks.

[Killdeer]

*shrugs* I personally think S4 has been better than S3. I'm not without complaints (I don't love Jeffster for one, and there was a couple of things that I wish had been handled differently), but I think

Spoiler:

the Volkoff arc overall

has been quite a bit better than the Shaw/Ring arc was.

But MMV of course. I don't really remember Chuck being anymore cheesy or OTT than normal in the beginning of the season, so I don't know if I could say it's gotten better. The only problem I remember having with the first few episodes of S4 was, IMO,

Spoiler:

too much emphasis on Chuck/Sarah. I like them as a couple, but I was starting to think every episode was going to revolve around them hashing out their relationship issues. But it got better.

[blueray]

yeah i didn't really like the shaw storyline. i think it would have been better if they didn't have him in it. it was like he was suppose to replacing brice (who was a good character). i also wish that they had chuck actually kill him when he shot him the first time (of course that would make chuck more of a drama than a comedy).

as for season 4 i definitely think it got better as it goes on. this weeks episode was one of my favorites. and as for jeffster, i'm not all that into them either. some of things they do is funny like last weeks episode, but for the most part i find myself thinking just get back to the spy stuff now.

[Killdeer]

I think I was one of the very few fans who actually liked Shaw. But that being said, in retrospect S3 has definitely been my least favorite so far.

Looking back, I think Shaw would have worked better if they'd focused more on making him a mentor for Chuck than a rival for Sarah. The whole love triangle thing seemed to drive everyone nuts. And the whole Ring arc was so haphazardly done. They were supposed to be bigger and badder, but not until the very very end did we actually see them get to do anything that scary.

They never did really explain all that about Sarah killing Shaw's wife, did they? I really need to do a rewatch. There is a lot I've forgotten. I've been wanting to wait until the end of the show to buy the DVDs, but maybe I'll have to break down and buy them earlier.

[the fifth man]

I think I was one of the very few fans who actually liked Shaw. But that being said, in retrospect S3 has definitely been my least favorite so far.

Looking back, I think Shaw would have worked better if they'd focused more on making him a mentor for Chuck than a rival for Sarah. The whole love triangle thing seemed to drive everyone nuts. And the whole Ring arc was so haphazardly done. They were supposed to be bigger and badder, but not until the very very end did we actually see them get to do anything that scary.

They never did really explain all that about Sarah killing Shaw's wife, did they? I really need to do a rewatch. There is a lot I've forgotten. I've been wanting to wait until the end of the show to buy the DVDs, but maybe I'll have to break down and buy them earlier.

That is why I love my DVD Recorder. I can watch whatever Chuck episode I want to, whenever I want to.

[Atlantis4Life]

*shrugs* I personally think S4 has been better than S3. I'm not without complaints (I don't love Jeffster for one, and there was a couple of things that I wish had been handled differently), but I think

Spoiler:

the Volkoff arc overall

has been quite a bit better than the Shaw/Ring arc was.

But MMV of course. I don't really remember Chuck being anymore cheesy or OTT than normal in the beginning of the season, so I don't know if I could say it's gotten better. The only problem I remember having with the first few episodes of S4 was, IMO,

Spoiler:

too much emphasis on Chuck/Sarah. I like them as a couple, but I was starting to think every episode was going to revolve around them hashing out their relationship issues. But it got better.

Thanks for the info.

For me, Chuck got cheesier with all of the relationship drama that was dragged into the show, plus the whole "everyone's a spy" thing.

Here's what I had to say about what I thought of season 3, and my problems with it:

Spoiler:

From Sept. 2010

1. Will they, won't they.

Oh my, that dragged out waaay too long for me. I thought the series started off nicely, but this was the first thing that dampened my enjoyment of the show. When Chuck and Sarah were at the train station and he decided not to go, I was fine with that. When they finally decided to be a couple that worked together by the end of the season, I was fine with that too. What I didn't like was the in-between part of it. The worst was when Sarah did that whole "Oh no, Chuck! If you kill someone because of your duty as a spy, then I can't love you anymore. It'll change you too much." She says this even though she's killed hundreds of people as a part of her job and still manages to be a decent person worthy of Chuck's love. I understand the desire on the part of TPTB and some fans to keep Chuck as the good guy that won't pull the trigger, but this was the wrong way to go about tackling it.

Now that Chuck and Sarah are a couple that works together, they need to steer clear of "relationship drama" in an attempt to "spice up" the show. That does not work for me, and I don't want to see that. They're adults, and they should behave like adults that can be professional about working together. Yeah, so, they'll need to lock up that GG creator for sure. LOL.

2. Shaw gone psycho.

I really liked Shaw when he was introduced and became a leader for the team. The main team was still Chuck, Sarah, and Casey so there wasn't much of a change there. I think it either would have been nice to either keep him in that role as a good guy, or just have him transfer out leaving the door open for a possible return. I didn't like Shaw getting turned into a psychopath intent on vengeance, even when the facts proved that his wife wasn't killed in cold blood. If he wanted to punish someone, why didn't he go after the people that gave the order? Why didn't he find out why they chose his wife as the target? Why didn't he want to get to the bottom of it? What he planned on doing wasn't vengeance at all. It was just crazy. It was the equivalent of "shooting the messenger." Such a waste of a good character played by a good actor. Again, I really liked Shaw pre-psycho mode.

3. Everybody's a spy.

This was tacky. Now Morgan of all people is a sidekick in the spy program? Why not round it out and bring in Big Mike, Jeff, and Lester too? They make about as much sense as Morgan does. Then there's Ellie finding out... I think this was a mistake. Devon finding out was enough in my opinion. I understand that the deeper that Chuck gets into being a real spy, the harder it would be for him to keep secrets, but that's part of the challenge of the show isn't it? As Chuck grows and evolves, the formatting of the show is going to have to change to accommodate that to a certain extent. Season 3 made it seem like he was never at work at the Buy More anyway, and he would just leave 5 minutes after arriving.

They should have had it where he applied for a different "made up" and arranged position through the government where he did outside sales and/or scouting for new locations or something like that. His "home base" could still be the Buy More where Morgan and the gang are at so there would still be a tie-in there. IDK, I just don't like everybody being a spy. This doesn't make me feel a lot of hope for season 4 but like you, I'll still be tuning in. I like the characters. And since this might be the last season, I want to see where it goes.

Here's how I felt about the season 4 premiere:

Spoiler:

There were some things that I liked about the episode. They tried to maintain the fun and what not and that was nice, but I'm not sure. Then, there's the Buy More. I mean, it does make sense to turn it into a secret spy-center (I guess) since Chuck leaving work every 5 minutes without notice and there being no repercussions for it was getting pretty unrealistic. However, I think it would have been better to keep the Buy More the way it was and just have Chuck get some kind of position that allowed for a lot of travel and no need for checking in every day. I notice that they got rid of Big Mike, Jeff, and Lester. I don't mind Big Mike going because he mostly just sat in his office and ate sandwiches all day (after season 2). However, Jeff and Lester were hilarious. I don't see how they'll get to come back now, but who knows...

I don't know about the mom. Yes, it's nice that they have the original Sarah Connor as Chuck's mom, but didn't we just leave a story line where he found and reconnected with his dad? It's kind of convenient that as soon as his father dies, now it's time to find mom and reconnect. Oh, and she just happens to be a spy too. Okay. *Sigh* I think it would have been better if they hadn't turned Shaw into a Psycho and if they were still investigating what happened with his wife's assassination and who ordered the hit. That would have been a bit more awesome in my opinion. Chuck's mother could have been some kind of weaved in sub-plot of that story line and not the main one. They could have made bringing down the original Ring something really awesome instead of the unremarkable event that it was.

Anyhoo, I'm still going to stick around for now to see where this goes. It hasn't gotten to a point where I don't want to watch it anymore, but it's not as exciting as it used to be. (OT for a second: Meanwhile, House was great!) I'm still not a big fan of Morgan being Chuck's side kick. I guess it's okay, it's just not that realistic to me. What does Morgan bring to the table that someone else (a real spy) couldn't? It doesn't make sense except for Chuck being able to have his buddy around while he's on missions. That's just not a good enough reason to me, and I don't think it'd be a good enough reason for the U. S. Government.

And this is when I just gave up:

Spoiler:

Okay, I'm still on this because I just thought of this. This whole show is just, and I mean just, about relationship drama now. Awesome and Ellie's "babymoon." Chuck and Sarah figuring out how to live together and if the "spy" in her can commit to the kind of relationship Chuck wants from her. Big Mike asking Morgan if he can marry his mother. Morgan needing to hear "soft jazz" or whatever when he kisses Casey's daughter to know if she's "the one." Chuck looking for long lost mama. Generalissimo needs Chuck and Sarah to "mediate" his marital problems with the wife. Somehow the Buy More is having a book signing for some guy that sells books about 101 ways to propose or whatever??? WTF??? It's like that Gossip Girl person took over!!! Oh geez.

So, hopefully that explains what I mean by the cheesy factor of the show going up. I just wasn't into where the show looked to be going, but since you say that season 4 ends up being better than season 3 that gives me hope.

yeah i didn't really like the shaw storyline. i think it would have been better if they didn't have him in it. it was like he was suppose to replacing brice (who was a good character). i also wish that they had chuck actually kill him when he shot him the first time (of course that would make chuck more of a drama than a comedy).

as for season 4 i definitely think it got better as it goes on. this weeks episode was one of my favorites. and as for jeffster, i'm not all that into them either. some of things they do is funny like last weeks episode, but for the most part i find myself thinking just get back to the spy stuff now.

See, I really liked the Shaw storyline up until they turned him into a psycho. I really liked the Shaw character. I never saw any kind of connection in replacing Bryce at all. I guess it's all about how you look at it. I liked Shaw leading the team on the ground with Casey, Chuck, and Sarah as the main team. That really worked for me. I think some people (not you) were upset about the fact that Shaw had a small thing for Sarah, but that died when

Spoiler:

he found out that she killed his wife. So, there's no longer an issue there. I expected for him and Sarah to have a more distant, but good working relationship after that. Oh, well.

Also, I didn't care either way which one of them Sarah ended up with so long as they didn't make the show about it. I've only been a "shipper" so to speak about one pairing ever, and that's J/T on SGA. So, I guess I just didn't have the same problems with Shaw that a lot of Chuck fans that were C/S shippers did.

Thanks for the feedback to both of you. I'm glad to hear it gets better. I'll check it out again then.

[Atlantis4Life]

I think I was one of the very few fans who actually liked Shaw.

I'm a happy member of that club too.

They never did really explain all that about Sarah killing Shaw's wife, did they? I really need to do a rewatch. There is a lot I've forgotten. I've been wanting to wait until the end of the show to buy the DVDs, but maybe I'll have to break down and buy them earlier.

No, they didn't. They just

Spoiler:

show that she was part of Sarah's "red test" or whatever. We never find out why Sarah is told to kill Shaw's wife, who was a spy as well. They completely just move past it, and I think that could have been a great storyline where the team keeps digging for the answer, finding new things out along the way. The story could have lead to some big cover-up or a huge secret development for sinister purposes that Shaw's wife was on the brink of uncovering or something - or perhaps she did and hadn't reported it yet.

Who knows. I just know that I like that idea more than what I saw of the "searching for mom" storyline. But as you say, YMMV. Indeed.

[MediaSavant]

Atlantis4Life:

From your very detailed commentary, your tastes are very different from mine. I've loved this season. I'm not an extreme shipper, but I do like the relationship and that it's part of the show.

So, it's hard say whether what I liked about this season is even in the same ballpark of what you like.

The most appealing part of the show for me is that Chuck is essentially a classic "hero's journey". That journey has continued in this season and actually culminated very satisfactorily in Episode 413. I loved it.

With Chuck, the character, not the same Chuck as he was in Season 1 or 2, they've switched a lot of the comedy load to Morgan and I think Joshua Gomez has shined and filled the role splendidly. I didn't really like the character in Season 1 and 2, but he's matured into something that is a highlight week to week.

Spoiler:

But, if you think Morgan being on the team is "tacky", you aren't going to appreciate it. I think it's hilarious and he actually has certain talents that come into play, just like Chuck did when he was a newbie.

Anyway, if you like a good "hero's journey", give the show another try.

Spoiler:

Chuck was totally badass in 413.

[TheRandomOne]

http://chuckandsarahwedding.com/

I want to see Ninjas at this wedding

[Killdeer]

I agree with some of what you're saying, Atlantis4Life, but I also agree with some of what MediaSavant says. And I agree that it's hard to say whether what I've been enjoying about the show is what you would enjoy. I'm thinking maybe not, but it's hard to say. I wouldn't say the season's been perfect, but overall I've thought it has been really good and a lot of fun. Spoilered for length.

Spoiler:

I personally like Chuck and Sarah and their relationship, but I agree that I wasn't thrilled with all the angst in S3 about it. And I was a little worried at the beginning of the season because there was a lot of emphasis on their relationship, and I was like...eh. Is this what the whole season is going to be like? But I think it got better after the "babymoon" episode.

On the other hand, I liked that episode quite a lot, so I think maybe our taste just isn't the same. If you're looking for a more realistic show as far as the spy stuff goes, Chuck has never ever been that in my recollection, and never claimed to be. It's part of the fun IMO, but I think it does annoy some people.

I kinda agree and kinda don't about Shaw. I agree that the writing for the character was kinda messed up - his motivations didn't really make sense. Although...this is Chuck. Overthinking anything on this show is just asking for trouble It's not a show that you want to try too hard to apply logic to. On the other hand....it was time for the whole Ring thing to die. It was just a rehashed version of Fulcrum. I think the arc this year has been much more interesting. And I'm not sure that I would have been all that interested in Shaw being a regular team member, or the team boss - General Beckman is just fine as the boss.

I also don't have a problem with Morgan being a larger part of the team this year. He's turned into a character I really like. I admit I had reservations when he first found out, but I like the way it's worked out.

I also don't agree about Devon and Ellie - in fact, (s4 general spoilers)

Spoiler:

personally one of my issues is that it's long past time for Ellie to find out the truth, and I mean the whole truth, about the intersect and everything. I was hoping that this season's arc was going to lead to that, but so far no, so that has been one of my bigger issues with this season. Ellie isn't just anyone - she's a Bartowksi, and spying is the Bartowski family business. She's also probably the only person out there besides Orion who could really understand what the intersect is doing to Chuck's brain (she's a neurologist). I think it's long past time for her to get involved, and I'm annoyed that it hasn't happened already.

I have been frustrated with some things. (S4 general spoilers)

Spoiler:

Jeff and Lester's antics have tended to be more stupid than funny this year IMO, though there's been a couple of exceptions. And I don't really think Casey has been used as well as he could have been this year. This was actually something that started in S3, but the whole focus on Chuck and Sarah and Shaw tended to push Casey into the background. This season I think he's gotten maybe a little bit more to do, but I don't really feel like he's part of the regular team like he was previous seasons. He tends to team up with Morgan to play support to Chuck and Sarah, and I'd kinda like to get back to the three of them going on missions again. That's happened a couple of times this season, but it hasn't been a regular thing.

I don't want to go further than that without getting into more specific spoilers though. But while I admit I've been disappointed with some things, overall I really try to enjoy the show for what it is. I like what MediaSavant said - it's a hero's journey. It's fun and I love the characters (Jeffster excepted). And this last episode was...if you'll pardon the expression.....awesome.

[Atlantis4Life]

Atlantis4Life:

From your very detailed commentary, your tastes are very different from mine. I've loved this season. I'm not an extreme shipper, but I do like the relationship and that it's part of the show.

Hey, MediaSavant:

Please don't mistake me, the relationship being a part of the show isn't a problem for me at all. The problem for me was that it seemed as though the relationship, and the issues surrounding it, was becoming THE show. I signed on for a "fun spy show" first and foremost, and that's what Chuck was for the first 2 seasons. Yes, there were relationship elements that were dealt with and brought in from the beginning, but they were done in what I think were good proportions at the time.

The first 2 seasons seemed to have at least 70% fun spy stuff, and about 30% relationship based storytelling - max. That started to change in season 3 to me. And after the first handful of episodes of season 4, it seemed like the proportions were completely switched. It felt like the relationship stuff was at least 70% of the show, and the fun spy stuff (with some serious tones as well) was about 30% of the show - max. I was like, "What the...?" How did it get here, and why???

Even the spy stuff that was shown was seemingly only there to support a relationship (i.e. searching for spy mama, can the "spy" in Sarah fully commit to Chuck, et cetera, et cetera...). That's the difference between what I saw of the Ms. Frost storyline and what I wanted to see with the continued Shaw vs. The Ring storyline.

The last I saw of Chuck looked to me like searching for dear old mom was the main story for Chuck, and the other stuff mostly supported that. The Shaw's wife storyline (the way I imagine it) wouldn't have been about his wife. It would have been about the team discovering what she was killed for. That's the difference. And to me, it's big one. Shaw and his wife would have been the side story to the main story of finding out what she died for. The Ring would have infiltrated the CIA and other branches of government, and

Spoiler:

Sarah would have found out that her real target for the "red test" was changed to Shaw's wife at the last minute as a way to stop the mission that his wife was on the brink of completing. That alone would have brought up some new and interesting questions, and it would have given another glimpse into the Sarah character by showing how she dealt with that news - Shaw and the rest of the team as well.

Then, there could have been a great climax to the story in bringing down The Ring as Shaw's final tribute to his wife. He and the team would complete the mission that she was no longer able to complete. Chuck would have gotten closer to Sarah (through working together) and learned loads of cool spy stuff from Shaw, Sarah, and Casey in the process, and Shaw would finally be able to move on. End of story.

That would have left the door open for Shaw's possible return in the future, and it would have strengthened the main 3 (Sarah, Casey, and Chuck) as a unit by having them work together on one big common goal that had a great payoff. But, of course, that's not what happened... Instead, I feel like the spy show I loved was replaced with Relationship Central by the time I'd finished watching the first few episodes of season 4.

So, it's hard say whether what I liked about this season is even in the same ballpark of what you like.

The most appealing part of the show for me is that Chuck is essentially a classic "hero's journey". That journey has continued in this season and actually culminated very satisfactorily in Episode 413. I loved it.

With Chuck, the character, not the same Chuck as he was in Season 1 or 2, they've switched a lot of the comedy load to Morgan and I think Joshua Gomez has shined and filled the role splendidly. I didn't really like the character in Season 1 and 2, but he's matured into something that is a highlight week to week.

Spoiler:

But, if you think Morgan being on the team is "tacky", you aren't going to appreciate it. I think it's hilarious and he actually has certain talents that come into play, just like Chuck did when he was a newbie.

I love the idea of the "hero's journey," and I'm totally with you on that. The issue for me is that the show slowly changed from being about 'the hero and his journey' to being about 'the hero and his relationships, and their relationships...' That, I cannot take.

Here's the thing: It's not so much what they did (although that was part of it), but it's the how. Most of the things (not all) that they did with the characters would have been fine to me if they weren't the focal part of the show. I also think that they could have waited to start the searching for mom storyline until after they did the Shaw's wife storyline. That way the dad and mom storylines wouldn't have been back-to-back. You know, break it up a bit. That's all I'm saying.

Spoiler:

And yes, I do think that Morgan being on the team is tacky. He doesn't possess any special skill that the government would need him for. So, bringing him on was just done for the sake of doing it. I've always liked Morgan a lot, so I have no problems with the character. The more I think of it, I think they brought him on so that the comedic stuff about being "new" to spying could be seen through him since Chuck was mostly past that. I think that's a mistake.

I would have welcomed a slightly more serious show where the main team of Chuck, Sarah, and Casey were on serious (or more serious, rather) spy missions where the comedy that came out of them was purely situational and sporadic. Then, most of the rest of the comedy on the show would have been attributed to Chuck's Buy More ties, and his interactions with friends and family.

Anyway, if you like a good "hero's journey", give the show another try.

Spoiler:

Chuck was totally badass in 413.

Thanks. I'll take your word for it and give it another try. And I'm holding you to the "badassness" of episode 13.

[Atlantis4Life]

I agree with some of what you're saying, Atlantis4Life, but I also agree with some of what MediaSavant says. And I agree that it's hard to say whether what I've been enjoying about the show is what you would enjoy. I'm thinking maybe not, but it's hard to say. I wouldn't say the season's been perfect, but overall I've thought it has been really good and a lot of fun. Spoilered for length.


[SPOILERS]I personally like Chuck and Sarah and their relationship, but I agree that I wasn't thrilled with all the angst in S3 about it. And I was a little worried at the beginning of the season because there was a lot of emphasis on their relationship, and I was like...eh. Is this what the whole season is going to be like? But I think it got better after the "babymoon" episode. [/spoiler]

Spoiler:

Bingo! That's something that killed the show to a certain extent to me. All of the angsty whining, pining, and emotional roller-coaster rides most of the characters were on with all of the back-and-forths and the 'will they, won't they' stuff. Thanks for letting me know that it gets better after the babymoon. I don't mind characters going through changes, even emotional changes, but again, it's the how that didn't work for me (and some of the what).

Spoiler:

...
On the other hand, I liked that episode quite a lot, so I think maybe our taste just isn't the same. If you're looking for a more realistic show as far as the spy stuff goes, Chuck has never ever been that in my recollection, and never claimed to be. It's part of the fun IMO, but I think it does annoy some people.

I kinda agree and kinda don't about Shaw. I agree that the writing for the character was kinda messed up - his motivations didn't really make sense. Although...this is Chuck. Overthinking anything on this show is just asking for trouble It's not a show that you want to try too hard to apply logic to. On the other hand....it was time for the whole Ring thing to die. It was just a rehashed version of Fulcrum. I think the arc this year has been much more interesting. And I'm not sure that I would have been all that interested in Shaw being a regular team member, or the team boss - General Beckman is just fine as the boss.

Spoiler:

I never wanted or expected that Chuck would be entirely serious and logical. You're right, it was never that. And making it 100% serious would take the fun out of the show. However, there was a certain sensibility and order to the show's first 2 seasons that started to slip in season 3, and it was gone altogether with the first 3-4 episodes of season 4.

I do think that it should have taken a slightly more serious tone as soon as Chuck became a real spy, but not enough to shift to show more than an inch from its base.

I don't think that Shaw should have been a permanent member to the team, but I would have liked him to stay until his wife's murder was fully avenged (in the right ways). Then, he could have stopped by sometime later if a big mission came up for him to lead using the Chuck/Sarah/Casey team.

Shaw never took General Beckman's place when he was their team leader, and I would never want or imagine that this would have changed. He took his orders from her and perhaps even those above her as well. She still oversaw everything; he was just the "leader on the ground" so to speak. I liked that. I also liked that he'd go on little side missions on his own. It would have been great to see one of those. IDK, I just liked Shaw.

I loved The Ring, Fulcrum too. One of my favorite episodes was when they brought in Andy Richter (funny guy ), and he was part of an entire suburban Ring community. I just think that bringing them down should have been epic and meaningful, and not the unremarkable waste that it was.

I also don't have a problem with Morgan being a larger part of the team this year. He's turned into a character I really like. I admit I had reservations when he first found out, but I like the way it's worked out.

I'll check it out to see how it works, but I'm still not buying it that the U.S. government would allow Morgan to join the team. Chuck made sense when you watch season 1, but Morgan? No. There's nothing special about Morgan. He's a great guy, but so are a lot of people...

I also don't agree about Devon and Ellie - in fact, (s4 general spoilers)

Spoiler:

personally one of my issues is that it's long past time for Ellie to find out the truth, and I mean the whole truth, about the intersect and everything. I was hoping that this season's arc was going to lead to that, but so far no, so that has been one of my bigger issues with this season. Ellie isn't just anyone - she's a Bartowksi, and spying is the Bartowski family business. She's also probably the only person out there besides Orion who could really understand what the intersect is doing to Chuck's brain (she's a neurologist). I think it's long past time for her to get involved, and I'm annoyed that it hasn't happened already.

Spoiler:

I don't know. Just because Ellie is a Bartowski and 'spying is the family business' doesn't mean that she should know because she's not a spy. She's a doctor. Even though she is a neurologist, that doesn't mean that she'd automatically understand Chuck's brain better than the government doctors that are assigned to working with the intersect. If she were meant to be a spy, then why didn't someone recruit her like they tried to recruit Chuck? Just because mom and dad do something and are good at it doesn't mean that all of the kids have to do it too - or that they'll be good at it.

I was fine with Devon knowing, and the little bit of spy related work that he did was great, but Ellie just ends up being a bit much. I suppose if they'd gone about it in a different way, then I'd accept it, but as is stands from what I last saw of the show, this is another tacky thing they just added in.

I have been frustrated with some things. (S4 general spoilers)

Spoiler:

Jeff and Lester's antics have tended to be more stupid than funny this year IMO, though there's been a couple of exceptions. And I don't really think Casey has been used as well as he could have been this year. This was actually something that started in S3, but the whole focus on Chuck and Sarah and Shaw tended to push Casey into the background. This season I think he's gotten maybe a little bit more to do, but I don't really feel like he's part of the regular team like he was previous seasons. He tends to team up with Morgan to play support to Chuck and Sarah, and I'd kinda like to get back to the three of them going on missions again. That's happened a couple of times this season, but it hasn't been a regular thing.

I don't want to go further than that without getting into more specific spoilers though. But while I admit I've been disappointed with some things, overall I really try to enjoy the show for what it is. I like what MediaSavant said - it's a hero's journey. It's fun and I love the characters (Jeffster excepted). And this last episode was...if you'll pardon the expression.....awesome.

Thanks for your thoughts and insights, Killdeer.

Spoiler:

I like Jeff and Lester, but I'll have to see what you mean about what kind of stuff they're doing this season.

As far as Casey is concerned, I like what they've done with him (his story is a good one), but I also saw that he was a bit in the background in season 3. I'd also like to see things be the main 3 going on missions again. I hope they get around to doing that. Morgan was great as the assistant manager of the Buy More, and I think he'd do better at that. It's more believable. If they wanted, they could have him try to train for a future career as a chef taking night classes if possible, but the team is Casey, Sarah, and Chuck.

I'll check back in here and give my thoughts on the rest of season 4. It may be a little while before I watch it, but like The Terminator, I'll be back.

Cheers.

[Starsaber]

I think that Jeff, Lester, and Big Mike have kind of outlived their usefulness as regulars at this point. I wouldn't mind them popping up once or twice a season, but they aren't really evolving as characters as much as running through the same old gags.

[Eternal Density]

About the question of why Shaw's wife was killed as Sarah's red test, I thought it was explained as:

Spoiler:

Langston Graham believed that Eve had been turned by the ring so he arranged for her to be taken out. That's why Shaw got all mad at the CIA because they 'turned on the wrong person'.

Given that it was only a line or two of dialogue I can see why people would have easily missed it.