Torchwood Episode Discussion (Spoilers for all eps aired in the UK)

[Shipperahoy]

Well yeah, you expect a certain amount of kissing in a steady relationship and Ianto had been in a relationship with Lisa, however dysfunctional, and Gwen and what'shisname have been in one for a while too presumably. It's when people are just kissing randomly that it draws attention to itself. Like I said, it's not that I'm being all puritanical about it, it just seems a bit jolting at times. Of course, it could be just me.

[Willow'sCat]

As for on the other flipside, reasoning? As much as it might not want to be admited... the show's fanservice wrapped up in disguse of a television show. (Well, it DID start because of how popular Jack's charri became/how much the writers etc liked the charri.) They're just trying to cover all thier bases. *L*

Okay so I'm half kidding there. Half.

Well I think your right in as much as the only reason we have Torchwood is because Jack was so well received by fandom. And I think a certain part of fandom would love this show regardless of story or acting just because it has Jack. I am half there myself actually. Jack!

It's when people are just kissing randomly that it draws attention to itself. Like I said, it's not that I'm being all puritanical about it, it just seems a bit jolting at times. Of course, it could be just me.

I understand what you mean, but I guess for me I am thinking there has been some reason behind it all. I mean the "aliens made them do it" and even the Owen thing that is best left to another thread, was him out on the pull and he is young(ish) and single, obvious horny, so what else would he do? Do you think it is more the way the show is shot that makes it jarring? There are a lot of bad cuts IMO between scenes, that might lead to a feeling of; where the heck did that come from... I think it does draw attention to it's self in the kissing department, but I think that was the point. Well RTD keeps rabbiting on about it anyway. I think RTD is going for a weird scifi soap opera.

[BC - 303]

i loved the little scene at the beginning with Ianto and Jack. Showing there not OK, but getting there.

[Madeleine]

That was a brilliant episode.

Ianto's still there, and there was nothing said about last week, but there was a nice scene early between him and Jack which said some sort of resolution has happenned offscreen to me, so that's okay.

The legends of lost lands and children stolen by fairies have been done lots, and done creepy, but that doesn't mean there's not room for plenty more . This was up there with the creepiest.

The SFX of the pretty fairies was perfect. The SFX of the monstrous fairies was a bit of a let-down, the design looked a bit too Gollum and the texture looked too plastic. Best of all though was when you couldn't see them onscreen: the actors really had that 'corner of the eye' thing down really well, and the flickering fluttering sound was just right.

As usual Gwen was wonderful.

I wonder why Jack never went back to Estella. And why the fairies didn't kill him on the train.

Oh, and no gratuitous snogging

[Willow'sCat]

Um, was I the only one confused on Jack's time-line? It said 1909, so has he been on Earth since then or was this part of his time agent *or whatever* thing? Was he stuck here or are we assuming he could move through time? As I said confused. And if he couldn't move through time, wtf! Does this mean he has been through all that stuff with The Doctor and still ended up in 1909? And *yes I know* he can't be killed sure, but why does that mean he can't age???? *confused* I am sure this will only add to the "they are ripping Buffy/Angel off" argument, he can't age, be killed and wow "chosen one".... Oh well.

The story of the "chosen one" was a little convoluted, or Jack's explanation was anyway. I felt like I was being talked down to rather then listening to him explain something to Gwen.

I don't think this was as good as last week but I was glad to see it set right out of Torchwood its self, and in daylight. The girl was good, believable if a little sad. I didn't like the fact that the people who were targeted by the monster fairies had been presented as either pedophile, violent step dad or mean/bullying children. Other then Estella, the victims were horrible or not very nice people. I don't think they deserved what happened to them, but it clouded things where I didn't think they needed to be clouded.

I agree the cgi of the fairies was good but the monster fairies was a little lame, or maybe we just expect too much these days... *shrugs*

I liked half naked Jack, surely that sheet could have been just a little lower.

[Chaka's_Mum]

Maybe one day we will find out - Jack's timeline is rather murky! Just trying to figure it all out on my own makes my puny little brain hurt...

I liked that brief moment between Jack and Ianto as well - there are still perhaps issues there, but they've put 'em aside for the time being. I also concur with Madeleine - thanks for a snog-free episode. Less is more. Actually, none is more when it comes to that sort of thing.

I also thought the whole connection to the Cottingley Fairies was quite cute, too; particularly at the end when Gwen focused in on one of the fairies in the famous picture of Frances with the dancers and 'discovered' she was the little girl. That was a nice touch. Interestingly, Frances and Elsie did admit that the pictures were fake a number of times (interspersed with evasive suggestions that people take the piccies on their own merits), but always insisted that they really had seen fairies around the beck.

It seemed odd that Estella was the only person they killed who hadn't been directly unpleasant towards the girl (I wish I could remember her name!). Unless her investigations were starting to draw too much attention to the 'fairies' and they took steps to shut her up, of course.

School bullies I can understand. The little girl did come across very much as a loner and 'person apart'. Someone like that is (however unfairly) a prime target for bullies, so it was perhaps not surprising that a couple of unpleasant little madams had decided to take it upon themselves to be nasty to her. They were lucky to come out of it alive!

It was, also, a real shame that the step-dad was the tiresome 'I only put up with her 'cos she's my partner's kid' stereotype step-dad. Okay, I know I'm second guessing after the fact and all that - but wouldn't it have been more effective to have him acting out of genuine interest in her welfare and trying to contain her because he was concerned about her safety rather than just out of petty spite? What better way to show just how ruthless these 'fairies' really are in protecting the 'chosen one' than that? It just seemed so lazy.

Yes - I know I sound like I'm carping, but I did actually enjoy this episode!

One thing I really liked - whether it was intended or not - happened while Gwen was clearing up her and Rhys's flat after the fairies had popped in to give it a bit of a going over. When she put her hand to her upper lip at one point, it was shaking a bit. Now, I may well have imagined that bit - but even if I did, I still thought it was pretty effective!

I imagine Eve Myles had a wonderful time yanking rose petals out of that bloke's gob, too!

It'll be interesting to see whether Gwen, Owen and Toshi will have got over their collective spat with Jack by next week, too. They were all pretty disgusted with him for letting the little girl go - despite the possible consequences of forcing her to stay against her will. Not a choice I'd like to have made.

[SoulSpinder]

It'll be interesting to see whether Gwen, Owen and Toshi will have got over their collective spat with Jack by next week, too. They were all pretty disgusted with him for letting the little girl go - despite the possible consequences of forcing her to stay against her will. Not a choice I'd like to have made.

I think that was a great point. I think it's just another nudge to show us that if yoru in the position he's in, he has to make descisions that NO ONE would EVER like/have to make. And he has to live with those choices. And it oviously beats down on him. (Jack really looked like he was going to break down again at the end.)

But I also think that they can all sit down and think: What would I have done. If they can even debate that without feeling sick themselves. I know I would.

I completely agree. Well done, Eve! That was a brilliant piece of work for her.

It's funny how the SPX grr-faeries were compaired to gollum-esque. I myself was thinking gollum meets orc. *L* But I thought they were quite nicely done. (Exspecially if you take into account that A) they have a TV budget. and B) being placed in a 'real' world with no establishment of fantasy background withing show history, they're gonna stick out subconciously to us anyway.)

My gripe about the cinematography in the past has been lessened. I was impressed a few times on the camera's complimenting to the scene or dialogue. Same thing with the lighting. It seems with every element of this show that the people were learning as they were going and improving at the same rate.

Yet, like others, I was a little confused. I hope it'll all make sense after another watch or two.

And, despite the fact that this seemed like something I would write, (maybe not quality, but the 'angsty' is completely up me alley! Here I was begging for them to let Jack cry. Well, I wasn't quite exspecting that for some reason. Gotta be careful what you wish for.) after it ended I felt really, really, heavy. It took me quite a while to calm down and not feel like I was going to burst into tears. I'm usually not like that. So it was quite unnerving!

Still, I'll agree with Willow that it wasn't quite as good as last week imho, but definately a good installment.

...and on the sheet comment. *whistles innocently.*

[ShadowMaat]

Liked this ep loads. I don't see any discrepancy with the timeline, though. Jack must have come back through the rift at some point, but he could have been dropped anywhere, anywhen. Seeing the flashback to 1909 just means he's been stuck here even longer than I thought. No wonder he's a bit deadened to things (though still obviously capable of things like love, as evidenced by Estella).

I do find it a bit questionable that the faeries targeted Estella for death. Maybe they didn't like having their picture taken?

When Gwen focused on the face at the end, who was that supposed to be, the little girl?

I liked the beginning scene with Ianto, too. Liked how he kinda jumped when Jack touched him. I wonder what it says about Ianto that he's sticking around the office at odd hours. Trying to atone? Or implying he has nothing else in his life? Or what? Hope we'll get more on that.

What was that thing Jack was sleeping in? It didn't look like a cot. But then, I was a bit distracted by Jack so I might not have noticed.

This was an interesting- if not very informative- take on faeries. I wonder what OTHER remnants are left over from the dawn of time...

EDIT: Okay, just went to the TWOP site and I give up on the timeline stuff. Might not be as obvious as I thought. *sigh*

[yaaayoubetcha]

I enjoyed the ep, but if Torchwood is supposed to be this super secret organization, isn't it kind silly to have the name embossed on the side of the land rover and in bright letter on top?

Is there some contest going on where you can win the actual vehicle or something like that?

[ShadowMaat]

I don't know if Torchwood itself is a secret or if it's what they do that's the real secret.

And if there was a contest, that'd be pretty dang cool. Pity I'm in the US- shipping charges would be outrageous.

[Squidy Taintmoor]

Torchwood itself isn´t secret at all. The first scene of the first episode made that pretty clear. It´s just that no one has any idea what they´re really doing.

[Matt G]

Last two eps:

1. I'm pretty sure Lisa was human/decent/normal at one point, it's just that her Cybernisation had spread more than she thought.

2. Stupid Ianto? I guess so. My thinking about his "biggest monster" line to Jack was something along the lines of him caring little for individual beings.

3. Who says the kid's step Dad didn't care about her, he just had his own idea of tough love by building the fence...and neither of her parents knew what they were dealing with and got caught 'way' out of their depths at a variety of levels.

4. I'm guessing Estella was from the Jack's time in WWII that we saw in S1 Who and I reckon the line he gave to Gwen was the story he gave to Estella...good to see Gwen's finally worked out that he's either a timetraveller or immortal. I'm guessing 1909 was time agent stuff but what he'd have been doing there commanding troops I'm not sure.

[Willow'sCat]

3. Who says the kid's step Dad didn't care about her

I do. And without getting into a whole big discussion on violence towards children, he didn't strike me as very upset or remorseful when he slapped her across the face... sorry but I take that as not caring, go figure. He seemed far more concerned about not making it known he had done it and she had bitten him. Also his general tone towards her was one of not giving a frak. His comment on her father alone made me believe he was only there for her mother.

I still have no idea what is up with the time line. I think we may have to wait for Doctor Who (The Doctor) to explain that one.

[yaaayoubetcha]

Torchwood itself isn´t secret at all. The first scene of the first episode made that pretty clear. It´s just that no one has any idea what they´re really doing.

Well yes, the police know of Torchwood, but I get the impression they still try to maintain an air of secrecy about their general existance since Jack did yell at Owen for odering Pizza under the name Torchwood.

Police yes...pizza no.

[jonno]

Maybe one day we will find out - Jack's timeline is rather murky! Just trying to figure it all out on my own makes my puny little brain hurt...

Your brain hurts? ... pity me who hasn't seen the Captain Jack Dr. Who episodes yet!

Not as good as last week, but still one of the better ones. It seems like the ... style ... camera work quality type of thing goes up week by week. Which is good.

Oh - and, (vague) frivolous spoiler for next week -

Spoiler:

Ianto in the field! Without his suit!