The Song Remains the Same (513)

[Heaven]

this was a really pointless episode
In The Beginning was just too perfect they should have stopped with the time traveling there.

[Crichiel]

There's no cast, at the beginning of the conversation Dean is twisting a bandanna around his hand (I guess he cut his palm to draw some sigils of his own), and it casts a weird shadow at times. But you can see that he's rotating his wrist, so definitely no cast. If I had time I'd make some screen shots for you, but I'm almost out the door for a weekend visit with the in-laws. If you check it out again, though, you should be able to catch it in the frame-by-frame.

THANK you! That's what I thought when I first watched it but on the re-watch, he was holding his arm so stiffly, and I thought I saw white underneath in the far shots. But then, they could have easily hid an injury by simply sticking with close ups, so my eyes kept going back to it. I tried to freeze frame it, but it just wasn't clear. This is SO unimportant , but it was distracting me!!

Back on Monday! Have a great weekend, everybody!

[MmmmMcKAy]

That's more like it. Lots of emotion and angst and plot development in this great episode.

[Celandine]

Really loved this episode, but I had a few niggling thoughts about it.

At the end, Mary has this angel statue on the shelf over the crib as her and John stand by looking and discussing it.

Is it a creepy or significant moment though? I was between the two and couldnt decide based on the free will/fate discussion Michael and Dean had AND the fact that not all the angels, thus far, have been very nice. Heck, even Dean said some angels are 'dicks.'

Also, I wondered if perhaps Mary's memory of the eventful night was retained, even in a small part (perhaps as part of God's plan/fate?) and this was a good omen and something that we would see play out later in future episodes. I, for one, hope Sam and Dean don't become meat suits for Lucifer and Michael and their game.

[MmmmMcKAy]

^My first thought was that some tiny part of Mary's experiences remained in her memory and that's shy she was attracted to the angel. But like you said, the angels she met were out to kill her.

[the fifth man]

This episode was even better the second time around. My wife was blown away by it, just as I was last night.

[Replicator Todd]

This episode was even better the second time around. My wife was blown away by it, just as I was last night.

Your lucky your family likes the same stuff you do.

[Aerilon]

My first episode of Supernatural. Looks like I have another show to watch!

What a strange time to start... Haha, mid season 5, you've got a long road behind you my friend, though I'd strongly urge you to watch the lot.

It is really going to be interesting to see what wins out...fate or free will. It's suggested so strongly that it will be fate, that you want to assume that the heroes will win, thus free will does as well, but at this point, I think the story will continue along the fate path.

Well, from what we're led to believe, everything has been pre-determined. Personally, I hate this throught.

If everything that God has created has already been planned out, then everything that happens from day to day is meant to be, and nothing can change that. This being said, Lucifer's fall was pre-determined (by God), as was his creation of Demon's, as was Dean going to Hell and Angels having to rescue him. EVERYTHING will be planned already.

In addition, Gabriel and Raphael would have known what their fate would be with the brothers (them locking him in that ball of fire) because everything has been pre-determined. I don't by it. Either Michael is lying to Dean out of desperation, or Michael is actually right, either way, I do expect Dean and Sam to both say yes, but only on their terms. It may be that some events are pre-determined, not 'life' in general.

I, for one, hope Sam and Dean don't become meat suits for Lucifer and Michael and their game.

I think this is a no-win scenerio for the both of them. Neither of them seem to be able to kill Lucifer, and the only one who can, is Michael (Raph and Gab could probably have a good go too, but I doubt they'd be up for the challenge).

Your lucky your family likes the same stuff you do.

Amen to this. Same situation applies to friends, I just tell them they're missing out.


One thing that did bug me in this episode (aside from the pre-determined life stuff), is the Angels; I was under the impression that they were Omnipotent, and that they existed outside of time (or at the very least, lived it differently). Anna went back in time, as did Castiel, wouldn't their real selfs have thought "hang on, what I am doing there" and come along to investigate?

[Celandine]

One thing that did bug me in this episode (aside from the pre-determined life stuff), is the Angels; I was under the impression that they were Omnipotent, and that they existed outside of time (or at the very least, lived it differently). Anna went back in time, as did Castiel, wouldn't their real selfs have thought "hang on, what I am doing there" and come along to investigate?

In what sense do you mean? I thought Anna and Castiel looked near about same age as Sam and Dean and neither of them were born yet. How would/could they investigate their real selves if they didn't exist?

[flameling]

In what sense do you mean? I thought Anna and Castiel looked near about same age as Sam and Dean and neither of them were born yet. How would/could they investigate their real selves if they didn't exist?

Because those are there vessels, not the true forms. the true forms are more like that bright light we saw when Michael went to John. I guess they wouldn't investigate because as Uriel said they were under strict orders to not come down, let alone take a vessel. But I now like Michael's character, any one else not mind seeing him again?

Edit: Perhaps Castiel has one of those things that stop angels and demons from finding you in his chest, so they wouldn't find him if they wanted to? Maybe God has one to and that's how he's hiding?

[iolanda]

One question, in the end, when Dean describes "team free will", how does he describe himself?

[Arative]

I enjoyed this episode a lot, thought it was very powerful with Dean and Sam being OK to have never been born. I was sorry to see Anna go because basically there are no more female cast members but its better than Bobby dying! I feel that her character was under used but since Uriel knew that it was Anna from the future, can he warn her not to do what she did and basically not be destroyed by Michael?

I would have liked to have seen more dialogue between Dean and Michael. It was an interesting conversation. Free will vs Destiny. I think though that Dean didn't ask the obvious question. What if he said yes to Michael and Sam said no to Lucifer? We know that Lucifer's meat suit can barely contain him. So if Michael was in his true vessel of Dean and Lucifer wasn't, wouldn't that give Michael the upper hand? It is something to consider. But then if Michael is right and everything is preordained, we know that both Dean and Sam will say yes.

[flameling]

I enjoyed this episode a lot, thought it was very powerful with Dean and Sam being OK to have never been born. I was sorry to see Anna go because basically there are no more female cast members but its better than Bobby dying! I feel that her character was under used but since Uriel knew that it was Anna from the future, can he warn her not to do what she did and basically not be destroyed by Michael?
I would have liked to have seen more dialogue between Dean and Michael. It was an interesting conversation. Free will vs Destiny. I think though that Dean didn't ask the obvious question. What if he said yes to Michael and Sam said no to Lucifer? We know that Lucifer's meat suit can barely contain him. So if Michael was in his true vessel of Dean and Lucifer wasn't, wouldn't that give Michael the upper hand? It is something to consider. But then if Michael is right and everything is preordained, we know that both Dean and Sam will say yes.

No, because its not a leap to assume he scrubbed Uriel's mind because other wise Uriel would have recognized Sam and Dean later on.

[iolanda]

One question, in the end, when Dean describes "team free will", how does he describe himself?

So I found this:

Dean: Well... this is it.
Sam: This is what?
Dean: Team Free Will. One ex-blood junkie, one dropout with six bucks to his name, and Mr. Comatose over there. It's awesome.
Sam: It's not funny.
Dean: I'm not laughing.

I don't get it. Does dropout refer to Dean not finishing school? Or him leaving hell? And what is with the bucks?

[Crichiel]

So I found this:



I don't get it. Does dropout refer to Dean not finishing school? Or him leaving hell? And what is with the bucks?

I assumed it meant drop out from school, since it's already been brought up multiple times this year that he doesn't have an actual high school diploma, he has a GED.