Originally posted by twinchaosblade
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Continued talk about 3.11...
Spoiler:
Me too! But despite what the Trickster tried to teach Sam, I guess Sammy did learn something very important from the undeniably bad experience. I think he was also horribly scared of what he had become without his brother, so I guess Sam won't give in to the Trickster and accept Dean's dooming end instead of searching on but he of all people will probably also keep a closer eye on himself and do everything in his powers to not become like that ever again. I'm sure he's just as afraid and disgusted at himself as the viewers were while they ached for his broken heart and spirit.
Some people suggested in a couple of fanfiction tags that this episode rather courted an end for Sam that most people saw for Dean if he hadn't been able to get his brother back in AHBL. And I tend to agree on this. I think Sam would rather kill himself than live like that. The only thing that always had me shy away from thinking that Sam would/could kill himself after Dean dies is the fact that he has a strong faith. I have got the impression that Sam is deeply convinced that committing suicide is a mortal sin, something no one should ever submit to do, under no circumstances, that it would also mean his sure way to hell. But in my opinion he now would weigh this against his fear of becoming that kind of unfeeling robot, and I'm not sure which one it would be.
Some people suggested in a couple of fanfiction tags that this episode rather courted an end for Sam that most people saw for Dean if he hadn't been able to get his brother back in AHBL. And I tend to agree on this. I think Sam would rather kill himself than live like that. The only thing that always had me shy away from thinking that Sam would/could kill himself after Dean dies is the fact that he has a strong faith. I have got the impression that Sam is deeply convinced that committing suicide is a mortal sin, something no one should ever submit to do, under no circumstances, that it would also mean his sure way to hell. But in my opinion he now would weigh this against his fear of becoming that kind of unfeeling robot, and I'm not sure which one it would be.
Spoiler:
And I think you could see that just in the way Sam pleaded to the trickster to bring Dean back.
That's some food for thought as well. I'd be interested in reading some of those fanfiction tags. Do you know of any offhand?
That's some food for thought as well. I'd be interested in reading some of those fanfiction tags. Do you know of any offhand?
I think this review of 3.11 sums a lot of my thoughts up nicely: http://www.pinkraygun.com/2008/02/19...-mystery-spot/
Yes, I'm quite fond of Stephen King's "It" too. But this was nothing like it, I rather thought it was lame. And to be honest,
Spoiler:
at first when Dean made the jokes about Sam being afraid of the clowns, I really thought Dean was just joking and Sam was getting annoyed because of Dean's childish behaviour instead of really being afraid of the clowns.
Anyway, the clown storyline just seemed to interrupt the heartbreaking brotherly moments between Sam and Dean, even the "clown's" death was nothing but anti-climatic the way he so conveniently died as soon as the fight started, like Dean and Sam were of the opinion, "Die already, we've got issues to work out, so we don't want to bother with your sorry a$$ any longer."
But how Sam and Dean dealt with their father's death was really geat, seeing their very different approach on that matter: Sam (as always) wanting to talk about it while Dean was in full on denial. And then Dean was so annoyed by Sam's constant prodding that he lashed out at an already heartbroken Sam, just to get him to shut up. Both boys stood so helpless in their own pain, unable to provide comfort for each other. Now I just loved how Sam got through to Dean at the end and triggered his outburst; it was what both of them needed at that moment.
Anyway, the clown storyline just seemed to interrupt the heartbreaking brotherly moments between Sam and Dean, even the "clown's" death was nothing but anti-climatic the way he so conveniently died as soon as the fight started, like Dean and Sam were of the opinion, "Die already, we've got issues to work out, so we don't want to bother with your sorry a$$ any longer."
But how Sam and Dean dealt with their father's death was really geat, seeing their very different approach on that matter: Sam (as always) wanting to talk about it while Dean was in full on denial. And then Dean was so annoyed by Sam's constant prodding that he lashed out at an already heartbroken Sam, just to get him to shut up. Both boys stood so helpless in their own pain, unable to provide comfort for each other. Now I just loved how Sam got through to Dean at the end and triggered his outburst; it was what both of them needed at that moment.
Spoiler:
It was just that the way the Rakshasa aka the Homicidal Phantom Clown (thank you, Sam... 
) stares with the evil grin and waves at the children reminds me of Pennywise the clown from "It" and it amused me a bit. But I have a weird thought process/sense of humor. 
I don't know the whole story behind the clown plotline (except that they wanted to touch on the fear that some people have of clowns... this was mentioned in one of the S2 DVD extras), but perhaps they were concentrating more on how Sam and Dean dealt with their father's death and they wanted to come up with some easier Monster of the Week subplot to tie into it. Though it didn't, really.
I know what you mean about Dean joking about Sam being afraid of clowns. Though I think we saw some truth in that when they went to talk to Cooper and Dean raced ahead of Sam so he'd have to sit in the clown chair (and Sam's sort of uncomfortable look as he did so
).
Agree on all points about the way they dealt with John's death. I thought that was done quite well.
) stares with the evil grin and waves at the children reminds me of Pennywise the clown from "It" and it amused me a bit. But I have a weird thought process/sense of humor. I don't know the whole story behind the clown plotline (except that they wanted to touch on the fear that some people have of clowns... this was mentioned in one of the S2 DVD extras), but perhaps they were concentrating more on how Sam and Dean dealt with their father's death and they wanted to come up with some easier Monster of the Week subplot to tie into it. Though it didn't, really.
I know what you mean about Dean joking about Sam being afraid of clowns. Though I think we saw some truth in that when they went to talk to Cooper and Dean raced ahead of Sam so he'd have to sit in the clown chair (and Sam's sort of uncomfortable look as he did so
).Agree on all points about the way they dealt with John's death. I thought that was done quite well.
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