Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

[DigiFluid]

I heard somewhere that Anakin was created by Plagueis who wanted to create an embodiment of the force. It wasn't in the movies but it's said to be canonical.

In the new/Disney canon, no. Nothing like that at all exists. Anakin is just Anakin, immaculately conceived (if you believe his mother), or conceived by the Force itself (if you believe the Jedi "Chosen One" prophecy). That's all there is to his origins in canon.

In the old Expanded Universe (now known as "Legends" and treated as non-canon by Disney) continuity it's a little different. The story in the EU/Legends is that Darth Plagueis was involved, albeit indirectly. There's a whole novel about him that runs from several decades before any of the films and runs up to concurrent with Phantom Menace.

The story in this is that Plagueis was a phenomenally powerful dark sider, who after decades of experimentation and meditation, attempted to shift the balance of the Force itself toward the dark side by influencing midichlorians galaxywide through his meditation.

It's a bit floaty and metaphysical (and infinitely better-written in the book than I'm doing here), but the gist of it is that the Force itself resisted the concerted 'dark side push' by 'distilling' the light into a person vis a vis the conception of Anakin.

Oh and just because Shmi doesn't use the force doesn't mean she doesn't have it. I mean she died young anyway and we didn't see her a lot anyway. Maybe she had those basic abilities like what Leia had in the original trilogy but it was never shown on screen. That's a theory.

I suppose it's possible, but it's not like there's any evidence for it. I could say she's secretly a 12-foot-tall lizard person wearing a disguise, and I'd have just as much evidence as that theory

[Kilgharrah]

... In the old Expanded Universe (now known as "Legends" and treated as non-canon by Disney) continuity it's a little different...

I suppose it's possible, but it's not like there's any evidence for it. I could say she's secretly a 12-foot-tall lizard person wearing a disguise, and I'd have just as much evidence as that theory

Why is it considered non Canon by Disney? Who wrote it?
You know that sounds good. I don't care if it's non Canon. I want to read into the expanded universe. Are they easy to go through AND find? Are they too many?

[DigiFluid]

Why is it considered non Canon by Disney? Who wrote it?

Well what independent Lucasfilm/Lucas Licensing used to do was have what they called a 'tiered system' of canon. The idea being that 'yes everything we license is part of the canon, but we're going to place priority on our own in-house films & TV shows, so if our stuff contradicts the licensed stuff, it's out stuff that's correct.' It was a system they had in place for a long time (decades) so things got a bit messy in some spots, but there was a lot of good stuff--books, comics, video games, reference guides, etc--produced. And if I'm being fair, there was a lot of crap, too.

Enter Disney in 2012.

Disney buys all the Lucas properties lock, stock, and barrel, and announce that they're going to do a sequel trilogy and possibly more films. Which generates a problem for those of us who have spent years reading and playing along with the EU, since now there are going to be new movies that don't fit the established mold.

So what Disney/Lucas decided to do was to 'reboot' things. Everything that was published under the independent Lucas Licensing, the "Expanded Universe," was rebranded as "Legends" and shunted off to its own separate continuity. As Disney owns all that property, they are free to mine it for ideas all they like, but as far as this new, Disney-owned chapter of Star Wars creation is concerned, nothing that happened in the Expanded Universe ever really happened in the Disney Star Wars universe.

In order to give maximum creative freedom to the creators of the new, Disney-branded films/books/TV shows/etc, the decision was made that the only materials to survive as canon were the (then) six films and the CGI animated Clone Wars TV series. And that from the date of the reboot (April 2014), every book/comic/game/etc published would be part of the new official canon--and on equal footing with the films, no more "tiered" canon. So if you go to the store right now and pick up "Aftermath" or "Bloodline" (or any of the post-2014 books), or any of the SW comic lines that Marvel is currently publishing, those are equally as factual/canonical to the Disney SW universe as the film that just came out last week.

I want to read into the expanded universe. Are they easy to go through AND find? Are they too many?

Oof, that is a taaaaaaaall order. You're talking about a publishing (comics, books, video games, reference guides, etc) period that ran from 1978 till 2014

I can make recommendations, and I know there are a few others here who can as well. But perhaps not in this thread, so we don't derail it further?

[Spimman]

Force power does come out of nowhere though. Anakin was a nobody. His mother was a slave. Yes immaculately conceived (though I prefer the notion that Sideous or Plagueis had a hand in doing that) but still, he wasn't anything special otherwise. Shmi Skywalker showed no signs of being force sensitive and we have no knowledge of any ancestors that were.

Additionally, since Jedi don't marry and have children, it's not like they ever worry about passing on "force sensitive genes" or anything like that. By all accounts, Force sensitivity can just be spontaneous.

Well said.

Digi - back in the glory days of the Republic did all force sensitives train to become Jedi? I wonder if some were low level force sensitives that didn't qualify but still had a cool "lucky edge" in life?

[GodAtum]

So a few points;

Spoiler:

It is like 2 movies in one, with rey as one story and the rebels as another
Where are the Knights of Ren?
When Luke burns the Jedi tree, you can see all the legends books being gratuitously burnt.

[DigiFluid]

Well said.

Digi - back in the glory days of the Republic did all force sensitives train to become Jedi? I wonder if some were low level force sensitives that didn't qualify but still had a cool "lucky edge" in life?

(Disney Canon)

Throughout the Republic, Force sensitives were identified quite early in their lives, and taken to the Jedi Temple on Coruscant for training (hence 10-year-old Anakin in TPM being "too old to begin training.") So broadly speaking, yes. The Jedi Order made the effort to train all Force-sensitives as Jedi.

There is a trilogy of episodes of the CGI Clone Wars series where Sidious hires a group of bounty hunters to raid the Archives in the Jedi Temple for information on the locations about Force-sensitive children who have not yet been relocated to Coruscant (I don't recall offhand whether it specifically mentions 'galaxywide' but the implication is clear). And as well, the most recent issues of the current Darth Vader comic series feature Jocasta Nu (the snooty Jedi librarian who told Obi-Wan 'if a planet does not appear in the Archives, it does not exist!' in AotC) returning to the occupied/ruins of the Temple to try to retrieve a data crystal containing information on Force-sensitive children throughout the galaxy, before the Sith can get their hands on it.


There are, of course, exceptions. The galaxy is a big place, and not all of it is governed by the Republic. Young Anakin is an obvious example--if TPM hadn't taken Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan to Tatooine, he (or any Force-sensitive from there) may very well have just grown up thinking they were lucky. There are also a few organizational exceptions, like the Nightsisters of Dathomir, who play a pretty significant recurring role in the CGI Clone Wars show.

[DigiFluid]

It is like 2 movies in one, with rey as one story and the rebels as another

Not really, it's really just the A-story/B-story storytelling format that virtually every TV show and movie use.

Where are the Knights of Ren?

I have been wondering about this too. I suppose they're not essential to the story being told, but it's something I've been curious about.

When Luke burns the Jedi tree, you can see all the legends books being gratuitously burnt.

I don't remember seeing the books burning; Rey had them in a drawer on the Falcon near the end of the movie so clearly they survived. Did we see inside the tree/temple at all while it was on fire? I only remember seeing it burn from the outside.

[GodAtum]

I don't remember seeing the books burning; Rey had them in a drawer on the Falcon near the end of the movie so clearly they survived. Did we see inside the tree/temple at all while it was on fire? I only remember seeing it burn from the outside.

I was being facetious

[DigiFluid]

Oh! *facepalms*

[Princess Awinita]

Fun fact: Porgs are realluy P{uffins just digitally "fixed" In short, the island they filmed the Ach-to scenes qwas a Puffin reserve. and rather then digitially edit the Puffins out of the scene in every frame, which was too much work, they came up with the Porgs

Which then spawned this quote

When life hands to lemons, make Lemonade
When life hands you Puffins, make Porgs

[Teddybrown]

Im sure I read a rumour that a scene was filmed where the Knights of Ren attacked Luke on Ach-to. Guess it was just a rumour...

[Spimman]

I don't remember seeing the books burning; Rey had them in a drawer on the Falcon near the end of the movie so clearly they survived. Did we see inside the tree/temple at all while it was on fire? I only remember seeing it burn from the outside.

I missed this. This makes Yoda's comment that Rey has everything she needs make more sense. I took it differently as was a little upset that she was already a Jedi.

[Kilgharrah]

It's just like when Luke left Yoda before completing his training, but this time Rey has the books to help her.
Yeah that could work.
We'll see in the next episode if she really has them.

[Annoyed]

Now this is why I like an afternoon matinee. Walked into the theatre 10 min. before showtime and I’m the only one in here.

[DigiFluid]

It's just like when Luke left Yoda before completing his training, but this time Rey has the books to help her.
Yeah that could work.
We'll see in the next episode if she really has them.

For sure. But I also 100% expect Mark Hamill to turn up in IX as a Force ghost to guide her.