Did Voyager and Enterprise destroy Star Trek?

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

Hey

I've watched most episodes of star trek, the next generation and DS9, and even though I'm not a big trekkie fan I thought that they were good scifi programmes and very entertaining. HOWEVER, after watching the series u know as Enterprise and Voyager I wanted to immediately rip my eyes out and eat my ears after sowing together my feet whilst in a car set on fire; I hated both of them.

Personally I think Voyager had one good aspect; The Hologram Doctor who was entertaining for the most part (should've been more like McKay though) and the Enterprise episode where the crew are chasing the Borg from First Contact - That was fun!

I think on the whole, both series led to Star Trek's demise combined with Star Trek Nemesis which I also hated. Who the hell should I blame for this?

[Trek_Girl42]

Voyager was rocky, I LOVED (and still watch) Enterprise.

Trek died because of the fans; when you get too much of a good thing, you demand more and more of it until what you want is entirly unrealistic. Fans beame too good for Star Trek, and too good for the people who make Star Trek. Fans (and producers) were taking Trek for granted. Some of the producers may have gotten too complacent in thinking that they could make anything and fans would love it, maybe they got lazy, maybe it was just too far past their creative prime. Trek needs new creative minds, which they had in Manny Coto, but threw that away when they cancelled Enterprise. He was doing some amazing stuff for the show and the franchise in general by tying it in with TOS.

[wanderingbynight]

I'm your opposite Trek_Girl. I thought Voyager was awesome, but I can't stand Enterprise (well, except for Lt. Reid If he had more camera time I'd watch). Neither series could beat TNG tough

[Giantevilhead]

The writers got lazy with Voyager and Enterprise. There were more inconsistencies both within the shows and with the rest of Trek history.

[PG15]

It was oversaturation and the aged "vision" of Roddenberry that ruined it IMHO. People are a lot more cynical now, and would rather just "get it over with" than wish for a better future.

[N8ball88]

Hey

I've watched most episodes of star trek, the next generation and DS9, and even though I'm not a big trekkie fan I thought that they were good scifi programmes and very entertaining. HOWEVER, after watching the series u know as Enterprise and Voyager I wanted to immediately rip my eyes out and eat my ears after sowing together my feet whilst in a car set on fire; I hated both of them.

Personally I think Voyager had one good aspect; The Hologram Doctor who was entertaining for the most part (should've been more like McKay though) and the Enterprise episode where the crew are chasing the Borg from First Contact - That was fun!

I think on the whole, both series led to Star Trek's demise combined with Star Trek Nemesis which I also hated. Who the hell should I blame for this?

I really liked "Voyager." I thought it had some really good ideas, excellent characters and plots, and a good feel to it. It's my second favorite Trek after TNG.

I didn't like "Enterprise" very much though. It just didn't seem to have a Star Trek feel to it. I didn't care for the look of it, and couldn't really identify with the characters. It just never seemed that good to me. I thought it was the worst of the ST shows.

[Cat_the_Alien]

I wasn't much of an Enterprise fan myself. I watched most of the first season and drifted away after that until the very end. I'm rewatching it now, incidentally (its only 4 seasons, and I have nothing but time on my hands) and it definitely doesn't have the same quality as previous series.

It is with some trepidation that I wait for the new Trek movie. I have some issues with JJ Abrams directing it. Look what he did with MI3 *gag* and the end of Alias. I also have some issues with potential stars...

[DigiFluid]

YES, they did kill ST. Or more specifically, voyager beat ST over the head till it was dead and then enterprise came along and continued beating its lifeless remains.

[Madeleine]

Hey

I've watched most episodes of star trek, the next generation and DS9, and even though I'm not a big trekkie fan I thought that they were good scifi programmes and very entertaining. HOWEVER, after watching the series u know as Enterprise and Voyager I wanted to immediately rip my eyes out and eat my ears after sowing together my feet whilst in a car set on fire; I hated both of them.

Agree on everything except Enterprise; I'd describe it as harmless but dull rather than actually horrible like ST:V.

TNG worked because it was made twenty and more years after the original. Changes in attitudes and TV techniques meant that it was automatically very different in feel from TOS, even though the mandate to boldly go etc was the same. It didn't hurt that four of the seven years were really top quality, either; original and exciting.

DS9 worked because it was so very different from either antecedent. Its least successful years - the first two - were the ones that stuck most closely to the story-of-the-week reset-button style of the others. I suspect that it was the success of the Babylon5 arc-based story that drove DS9 to introduce the whole Dominion thing, and it was definitely the making of the series. It's not everyone's cuppa, and it's almost a niche show within the franchise, but it didn't harm the franchise. People who didn't like it could think - it isn't traditional Trek, I'll stick with the traditional style and eschew the space station stuff. They could avoid DS9 and still feel like Trek fans. The public perception was that it was a Trek spinoff but was less high-profile than TNG as it was so very different.

The public perception of Voyager was that it was a Trek spinoff but less high-profile than TNG cos it was inferior to TNG.

Voyager only worked so far as the characters worked. Which for me was not very well. The premise was announced as something new: 'Lost and trying to get home through unknown territories', but it ended up just being a retread of the Boldly Go stuff, just with less back-up from the Federation. There was nothing new on offer, so anyone (me) who found that there was only one-and-a-half decent characters had nothing to watch for. (Unless the TV and the only heater in the house were adjacent, and one's husband watched ST:V on every winter monday.) Voyager needed to be different somehow. It could have started by involving many more of the crew than just the main cast; even *that* would have distinguished it from TOS and TNG.

Voyager seemed pointless for anyone not hooked on the characters. I didn't especially like any of the TNG characters ('cept JLP) but the series as a whole was unique at the time, so TNG had a point. DS9 had a point. ST:V was just TNG Redux.

And Enterprise. More Boldly Going . Hamstrung by the canon and continuity already established, it had this whole Temporal Cold War thing as a way of getting around the problem... and then blithely introduced Borg and Ferengi and all sorts of other canon-breaking stuff without even using the TCW as an excuse. It did seem to have more ideas than Voyager (and was almost Holodeck-free, which can only be a Good Thing ) but "better than ST:V" is never going to be much of a compliment .

Enterprise didn't make much attempt to be Different. So again, not much point to it, beyond the characters. I liked two of those.

I think the problem is that there was no breathing space between TNG/ST:V or ST:V/ST:E. There's little from s1 of either show that couldn't have been tweaked and done a year beforehand in the previous show (s7 of TNG was not its best, btw). So yes, ST:V and ST:E were almost fated by their very existence to destroy the public's appetite.

I suspect that if ST:V had never existed ST:E would have done better. The seven-year gap between TNG and ST:E might just have been long enough for TV's need for an Earth Spaceship Boldly Going to become manifest again. Without the link that ST:V provides, ST:E feels not at all like more of the same from TNG. Basically, I blame Voyager for Enterprise's demise.

Trek can come back again. It needs either a breather of at least a decade, or a totally different concept, like DS9 was. Or both.

[Uber]

I'm your opposite Trek_Girl. I thought Voyager was awesome, but I can't stand Enterprise (well, except for Lt. Reid If he had more camera time I'd watch). Neither series could beat TNG tough

I agree. I never got into Enterprise although I really tried. I found it offensive...a slap in the face to the history of the future and it irked me no end.

Voyager, however, I LOVED. I've been a Trek fan for forever, growing up with classic Trek on reruns as a kid, getting the awful news they were going to have a new show without Kirk and Spock *gasp* (believe me when I say the news was not well received back then). I loved Next Gen, I grew to adore DS9 after finally giving myself permission to watch it...and Voyager? Well Voyager had Janeway...and I love her.

So...I'd say arrogance destroyed Star Trek...the arrogance of those who ignored a beautifully crafted history of the future to create a "new" beginning rather than continue on from where Voyager or DS9 left off.

[the Fifth Race]

I agree that Voyager and Enterprise along with the movie Nemesis were sub-par compared to TNG and DS9. That being said there were a lot of great episodes that came out of both franchises. I loved Voyager in the later seasons, especially when 7 of 9 joined the cast. Enterprise started slowly (like most Trek series) and got better, I loved the Xindi storyline yet the last season of was very discombobulated.

All in all I feel that the popularity of other great scifi shows (like SG, Farscape, Andromeda, B5 and a few others) coupled with the sub-par Voyager, Enterprise and Nemesis is what temporarily shut Trek down.

IMHO, they should have let the franchise (television series wise) rest after DS9. Trek will rise again on television and in the theaters, the franchise is still huge and there is way to much money to be made off of it. The trick will be whether they hire the right creative people to bring it back to life and do the franchise and fans justice.

[Mousie]

I prefered Voyager to Enterprise but did enjoy them both.

I think what Trek Girl said is very true, as well as it being too much of a good thing. I think when they try to put out too many series running at the same time/or airing too closely together they can end up spoiling a good thing. I've seen it a bit more recently, a series is succesfull so they make an offshoot - it can be a dangerous game I think. CSI Vegas is brilliant, CSI Miami is very good but I haven't really warmed to CSI New York. It's all too samey, 3 series essentially doing exactly the same thing. I'm hesitant about this proposed 2nd spin off from Stargate for the same reason. How many other spin offs have failed? B5's Crusade? Buffy and Angel's Watchers series?

Whilst some spin offs do work (the Trek franchise being the biggie), Angel and Atlantis for example, sometimes it does seem to be the producers milking every penny/cent they can get. I think that's what spoil series more than anything.

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

YES, they did kill ST. Or more specifically, voyager beat ST over the head till it was dead and then enterprise came along and continued beating its lifeless remains.

I like you. I like you a lot.

[kmiller1610]

It's President Bush's fault. With a professing Christian in the White House who really seems to mean it, the public wants something that is raw, rebellious, a bit blue from a sexual standpoint and less preachy. Star Trek in its original form was pretty preachy (though I honestly don't think DS9 was that way).

All the new SciFi shows fit the Bush era counter culture mode.

[walterIsTheMan]

Voyager was a really good series. Unlike the latter seasons of TNG and most of DS9, Voyager got back to the heart of Trek: exploration. Hundreds of new species that we had never encountered before, instead of day in and day out rounds with the Klingons or the Romulans or the Dominion. Plus unlike the other series', Voyager had an overall goal - to get home. TOS had no goal, they were just wandering the galaxy aimlessly. Same with TNG. DS9 was clueless until the whole thing with the Dominion got started. But Voyager had a plan from the get-go.

Also, Voyager was a lot more light-hearted than any series since TOS. DS9 was always so serious with the Dominion War going on, and I've met rocks with more personality and charisma than most of the TNG cast.

Plus Voyager didn't make things easy. They couldn't just hop to the nearest Starbase for repairs, or call in Starfleet for backup, or ask SF Command what they should do. They had to tackle their problems on their own, which made for much more interesting storylines.

So, no, Voyager didn't destroy Trek at all. Now Enterprise on the other hand...well things were off to a rocky start. Things were finally looking up in Seasons 3 and especially 4, and then they had to go and cancel it (not unforunately before they aired the most horrific and thrown together series finale in Trek history).