Deep Space 9 Superior

[Descent]

Really? Odo must have been crushed...

My thoughts exactly. Maybe it wasn't the founders this time? Just the Jem'Hadar perhaps.

[Descent]

Yep, thought so. The Jem'Hadar and the Breen but not the Founders again. Martok dies though? Yikes, glad EU isn't considered Canon.

[Anubis69]

Thanx Brother Anubis69, all I need is to be reminded I am another year older. After 21 there in NOTHING to celebrate. I am doing nothing today other than watching the next episode on the discussion list Honor Among Thieves My ex-wife (who is now single again) wants to take me out to dinner, not sure about that one. I will definetly have a tall glass of Samuel Adams tonight.

I understand feeling like that but the way i see it (just like the Cardassians, actually!) is that getting older is a sign of wisdom, power and dignity. A great honour IMO. Well, anyway, enjoy your day and best of luck with your ex-wife, whatever you chose to do.

ETA: 2nd Dominion War? I look forward to finding out how that one comes about...
ETA2: Samuel Adams? why not have a Samuel Jackson? Dave Chapelle's a legend.

[the Fifth Race]

Really? Interesting. I...don't really see how thats possible but...thats still interesting.

I will give you a taste today and I will post the Second Dominion War timeline and story tomorrow ...........

After The First Dominion War (2376 - 2391)
2376: Most Jem'Hadar units withdraw from the Alpha Quadrant. However, unbeknownst to the Federation and its allies, several squadrons remain hidden inside Breen space, along with a fully functional shipyard concealed in the Rostat Nebula. Many of the Cardassian Union's outer colonies are partitioned and occupied, and several sectors of Breen space are annexed by the Klingon and Romulan Empires.

Bajor is admitted to the Federation.

2377: The three "Great Powers" (the Federation, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Empire) sign the Third Khitomer Accords, abolishing the Neutral Zone and establishing a solid alliance. The people of the Alpha Quadrant believe that finally, peace has come to their part of the galaxy.

The U.S.S. Voyager returns after its seven year journey from the distant Delta Quadrant, bringing a great deal of new information and technology with it.

The Federation Council orders the formation of the Starfleet Military Reserves, a division of Starfleet devoted solely to the defense of the Federation.

2378: Elements in the Klingon High Council attempt a coup against Chancellor Martok, claiming that he has betrayed the Empire by joining an alliance with the Romulans. However, the group does not gather much support among the military and they are defeated within two weeks.

2380: The Ferengi Alliance, under the leadership of Grand Nagus Rom, signs the Third Khitomer Accords and joins the "Great Alliance."

2381: Three Borg Cubes are detected heading towards the Federation. Recent technology developments and information gathered by the U.S.S. Voyager allows Starfleet to defeat the Cubes handily before they even cross the border, with the loss of only two starships. (This idea comes from the Starfleet Military Reserves.) While the entire Federation rejoices at the relatively easy defeat of its worst enemy, the attack is nevertheless a disquieting reminder that peace is neither total nor permanent.

2383: Doctor Julian Bashir, Head of Starfleet Medical, uncovers solid proof regarding the existence of Section 31, the mysterious "Black Ops" organization. This revelation nearly triggers a civil war. Many officials in the Federation and Starfleet are understandably horrified that such an organization truly exists. However, over its 200+ years of existence, Section 31 has gathered the support of numerous key officers. When the Federation Council officially denounces this rogue organization, Betazed, Benzar, Minos Korva, and several other planets who suffered during the previous war threaten to secede, claiming that the Federation is unwilling to use whatever means necessary to defend its territory.

SO, WHAT HAPPENS TO SECTION 31???.

2384: In an historic gesture, Chancellor Martok and Praetor Neral agree to hold talks aimed at settling their century-old border dispute in the Khitomer Sector. Unfortunately, Martok's warship explodes en route to the conference. Though it is never proven, it is believed that the ship was sabotaged by anti-peace extremists.

A new coalition of anti-peace Council members elect K'toth as the new Chancellor of the Empire. Though he agrees to hold the talks with Neral, Chancellor K'toth refuses to relinquish the Empire's claims to the entire Khitomer Sector, and neither side can reach an agreement.

2385: Klingon warships increase their patrols in the Klingon-controlled region of the Khitomer Sector.

Not outright war– but it's getting close.

The Federation, citing the Klingons' refusal to negotiate, officially pledges support to the Romulan Empire.

2386: The Klingon Empire withdraws from the Khitomer Accords.

2387: Klingon and Romulan forces are reduced in the occupied Breen territory. The Breen government signs a neutrality pact with the Federation and the other empires, and most occupying forces, aside from a few patrols, are withdrawn to be concentrated on other fronts..

Naturally, the Breen use this opportunity to build up their forces again. The Jem'Hadar too have been steadily building a fleet of almost 15,000 attack fighters. (Surprise!).

2388: War? Not all-out, but a big problem

[Trek_Girl42]

An episode of DS9 I have never till this day been able to categorize as being a waste of time or a historical take on the Bajoran's was the episode "Explorers" the episode revolves around a solar sail ship built entirely from old plans by Sisko, I can't decide if i hate it as a borin episode that revolves around two people or gives to the screen a fresh new look on the ancient space flights or some of the alien species that has never really been done before......we just usually see alien as having warp ships that either look crap or really cool but not really any pre- warp spaceships at the same time Humans of Earth were sailing in the Oceans and finding new lands.

Have to comment on this! (haven't seen it in ages, so bear with me if I get something wrong, this will be based upon my impressions of what I remember watching the episode)

I LOVE this episode, and so far it's one of my favourites, that's mainly for Jake's story, personally, I saw so much of myself in him this episode, and could very much identify. This truly solidified what a strong character Jake Sisko was (keeping in mind that I haven't seen roughly thirty or so episodes that pre-ceed this one). I understood where this character was coming from, and where he was going.

Number two, that Bajoran ship, maybe it's just the romanticism of it, but I loved it- what an elegant thing, not to mention it was definitly different from anything we'd seen in Trek before. The cgi department did a fabulous job, as well as the set designers.

Number three, learning a little about Bajoran ancient herritage, it's one thing hearing the characters explain about the Bajoran culture, and seeing the standard prayer and temple scenes, from which we are to deduce who they are as a people, but I thought that this was what really showed their spirituallity. Everything about the ship, the journey, etc. indicated that this was a culture of faith far better then any prayer scene- and we didn't even need a Bajoran there to show- and emote the feeling of- that.


Anyway, Happy Birthday Fifth!

[the Fifth Race]

I LOVE this episode, and so far it's one of my favourites, that's mainly for Jake's story, personally, I saw so much of myself in him this episode, and could very much identify. This truly solidified what a strong character Jake Sisko was (keeping in mind that I haven't seen roughly thirty or so episodes that pre-ceed this one). I understood where this character was coming from, and where he was going.

Number two, that Bajoran ship, maybe it's just the romanticism of it, but I loved it- what an elegant thing, not to mention it was definitly different from anything we'd seen in Trek before. The cgi department did a fabulous job, as well as the set designers.

Number three, learning a little about Bajoran ancient herritage, it's one thing hearing the characters explain about the Bajoran culture, and seeing the standard prayer and temple scenes, from which we are to deduce who they are as a people, but I thought that this was what really showed their spirituallity. Everything about the ship, the journey, etc. indicated that this was a culture of faith far better then any prayer scene- and we didn't even need a Bajoran there to show- and emote the feeling of- that.

I agree with all of the above Lady Trek!, I wouldn't put in my top 5 episodes from DS9 but it still was quite beautiful and "elegant"l. I am not the biggest early season Jake fan, but he came into to his own in this family orientated episode. Capt. Sisko was brilliant as always whether he is playing the stations Captain, the emissary or a caring friend and father.

I love the depths that TPTB went to give us a very detailed history of Bajor and Bajoran culture throughout the whole series. DS9 cared about details with most of all the major player races in the series as well.

I know you are currently still in the earlier seasons, but IMHO Jake and Nog become much better by season V.

Anyway, Happy Birthday Fifth!

Thank you young lady

By the way, anytime you want to throw out a critique or an opinion on the episodes you are currently watching, please do!, it would be appreciated!.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Darkstar
An episode of DS9 I have never till this day been able to categorize as being a waste of time or a historical take on the Bajoran's was the episode "Explorers" the episode revolves around a solar sail ship built entirely from old plans by Sisko, I can't decide if i hate it as a borin episode that revolves around two people or gives to the screen a fresh new look on the ancient space flights or some of the alien species that has never really been done before......we just usually see alien as having warp ships that either look crap or really cool but not really any pre- warp spaceships at the same time Humans of Earth were sailing in the Oceans and finding new lands.

I liked this episode mainly for Sisko's enthusiasm and for the ending. I just loved the Cardassian's admitting to what they'd known all along and then throwing a little celebration for the ship when it crossed the finish line. It was slow moving and I wasn't a huge fan of Jake's role in the whole thing and yet the episode gives you a warm, satisfying feeling when its finished.

[Starbase]

I liked this episode mainly for Sisko's enthusiasm and for the ending. I just loved the Cardassian's admitting to what they'd known all along and then throwing a little celebration for the ship when it crossed the finish line. It was slow moving and I wasn't a huge fan of Jake's role in the whole thing and yet the episode gives you a warm, satisfying feeling when its finished.

I wholeheartedly agree Carl, I won't say I am big fan of the episode "Explorers" but I did enjoy the family type theme it had between Jake and Ben. If I remember right Jake didn't want to go intially but changed his mind after he saw how much his father (Ben) wanted him to go.

But like you said Carl, the best moment for me was when DuKat had to eat his words and admit that Bajorans were the first to travel as far as they did (Cardassia) well before Cardassians traveled to Bajor for the first time. And then of course we got the phony as all heck celebration, I could see DuKat turning red with jealousy and rage behind his smiling and congratulatory facade.

[Darkstar]

Seeing as Cardasia is not that close to Bajor it was suprising that not only one anomaly exists in the Bajoran star system, first there is a wormhole that takes ships across the galaxy and in the episode "explorers" the belt that acts upon the sails of the Ancient Bajoran ships to thrust them at warp speed.....how about that eh?

One thing i didn't get was how come the Bajoran govermant knew that a ship had reached as far as Cardasia, natrually the Cardassians denied it but the pilots or occupants of the original Solar Sail ship never returned home, If i remember the ship crashed and the bodies were found and stored and kept secret by the Cardassians only untill Sisko managed to prove the Bajorans right....It was Bajor's first interstellar flight.....I wonder what Earth's or humans first interstellar flight was to another planet?

Maybe it was Alpha ~Centuri the closest planet that in trek history is one colony of early earth colonists much like season 1 of ENT where the planet was colonised but was struck by a meteorite and cut off.

[Starbase]

Seeing as Cardasia is not that close to Bajor it was suprising that not only one anomaly exists in the Bajoran star system, first there is a wormhole that takes ships across the galaxy and in the episode "explorers" the belt that acts upon the sails of the Ancient Bajoran ships to thrust them at warp speed.....how about that eh?

One thing i didn't get was how come the Bajoran govermant knew that a ship had reached as far as Cardasia, natrually the Cardassians denied it but the pilots or occupants of the original Solar Sail ship never returned home, If i remember the ship crashed and the bodies were found and stored and kept secret by the Cardassians only untill Sisko managed to prove the Bajorans right....It was Bajor's first interstellar flight.....I wonder what Earth's or humans first interstellar flight was to another planet?

It been awhile since I last watched that episode but if I remember right the Bajorans who traveled on the solar sail ships not only made it to Cardassia and beyond but some that survived settled on and near Cardassia. Those "belts that thrust the Ancient Bajoran ships to warp speed" were Eddy's of light, composed of faster-than-light tachyons, that are capable of carrying ships many light years.

[HirogenGater]

Yep, thought so. The Jem'Hadar and the Breen but not the Founders again. Martok dies though? Yikes, glad EU isn't considered Canon.

I have been a big fan of the relaunch novels, and I personally considered them canon, but not after reading that Martok dies. Bahh, one of the greatest Klingons ever? Bah.

[the Fifth Race]

I have been a big fan of the relaunch novels, and I personally considered them canon, but not after reading that Martok dies. Bahh, one of the greatest Klingons ever? Bah.

I was also surprised they killed Martok off.

Here is the second part of Star Trek Minutiae >> Star Trek Restoration >> Timeline......

The Second Dominion War (2391-2410)

2391: The Dominion "comes out of the closet" and officially resumes its control of the Breen Confederacy.

2392: The Federation and the Romulans attempt several invasions of the Dominion. The Dominion denounces these attacks as "assaults against the accepted government of the Breen people." While the Dominion ferociously defends its territories, it does not launch any more invasions, instead focusing on fortifying its position in Breen and Tholian space.

Starfleet ceases its attacks on the Dominion, concentrating instead on building up its own military. Unfortunately, the Dominion still posesses an astounding ability to quickly build ships and breed soldiers, and Starfleet is never able to assemble a large enough force to take on the Jem'Hadar.

2393: The Battle of Bajor. An Dominion transport detonates a chroniton bomb inside the Bajoran Wormhole, killing the inhabitants known as the Prophets. The wormhole itself remains intact Dominion once again invades the Federation, first capturing Bajor, Deep Space Nine, and the Bajoran Wormhole. The Dominion, for the first time over 20 years, once again has a link to the Gamma Quadrant. Although Starfleet and the other powers have greatly improved their strength and technology and mount a formidable resistance, the Dominion still has numbers on its side.

The Dominion threatens the Cardassians. They end up re-joining the Dominion.

a "planet hopping" strategy

2394-2397: Starfleet and the Romulans valiantly fight the Dominion invasion. In the past 20 years Starfleet developed improved technology and dedicated warships to fight the Dominion, but even their best efforts are not enough. The Dominion slowly gains ground, and although Starfleet is able to delay the advance several times, they are unable to recapture any of their lost territories.

2394: The Battles of Caldik Prime and Portas V. Starfleet and the Romulans gather for a massive strike against Portas V, a major Breen shipyard and Jem'Hadar breeding facility. Unfortunately, Dominion agents learn of the planned attack and send a fleet to ambush the attackers. The two allies not only manage to defeat the Jem'Hadar attackers, but still carry out their assault on Portas V. They manage to severely damage the shipyard but are forced to leave when Breen reinforcements arrive. Despite the 45% casualty loss, both the Federation and the Romulan Empire regard the battle as an important victory.

more in here about dom getting held up a little.

2396: The Dominion attacks Betazed and Bolarus IX, despite heavy fighting, the Fourth Fleet actually manages to repel the assault on Betazed. However, the Dominion quickly masses a second attack force to strike at the wounded Starfleet forces, and after the second battle, Starfleet is forced to retreat.

2397: Andor and Vulcan are conquered. The Jem'Hadar are now in striking range of the capital of the Federation, Earth.

2398: The Battle of Alpha Centauri. The Federation 1st Fleet (which includes more than 4,000 starships at this point) is defeated in a disastrous battle.

The destruction of the Federation Home Fleet leaves Earth undefended. Rather than face orbital bombardment, the planetary government surrenders to the Dominion.

While the Federation Council itself manages to escape, attempts to rally the remaining members of the Federation fail; some planets choose to surrender, while most of the others are invaded and occupied over the next eight months.

2399: Following the defeat of the Federation, the Klingon High Council signs a treaty of full alliance with the Dominion, and begins a series of attacks against the retreating Romulan fleet. The Klingons, in their eagerness to destroy their ancient enemy, recklessly lose a disproportionate portion of their fleet to the Romulan defenses.

2400: The Romulans, now the only independent major power and fighting a war on three fronts, surrender to the Dominion and are occupied.

2401: Remnants of Starfleet and Romulan forces gather outside Dominion-controlled space. They agree to form one single, united force pledged to resist Dominion rule. Only about 120 ships comprise this force, but the fleet selects an uninhabited planet in the Takara System approximately 400 light years beyond Dominion space and settle there to rebuild their forces. By remaining completely out of sight and inactive aside from their home system, they manage to avoid Dominion detection.

2404: The Dominion begins conquering the numerous smaller nations and planets surrounding the Federation, including the Talarians, the Miradorn, the Orions, the Tzenkethi, and Cardassia.

The Klingon Empire, still licking its wounds from the Romulan invasion and dealing with popular discontent regarding the government's apparent betrayal of the Federation, refuses to support the attacks.

2405: The Dominion, angered that the Klingons basically used their war as an excuse to attack the Romulans, revokes the Empire's "allied status" and begins attacking its territories. Within months, the Klingon Empire surrenders, and joins the growing number of occupied territories in the Alpha Quadrant.

Some resistance groups spring up.

[HirogenGater]

What novels does this happen in? I think I read up to Unity.

[the Fifth Race]

What novels does this happen in? I think I read up to Unity.

This whole Star Trek Restoration Timeline was put together by using various novels, pocket books, movies, television series, various Trek series manuals and Trek technical manuals by a group of that started the Star Trek Memory Alpha and the Star Trek Minutiae web sites.

I will post up the 3rd part tomorrow, its a very interesting read!.


Behr, Ira Steven. The Ferengi Rules of Acquisition. New York: Pocket Books, 1995.
Behr, Ira Steven, and Robert Hewitt Wolfe. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: Legends of the Ferengi. New York: Pocket Books, 1997.
Duane, Diane. My Enemy, My Ally. New York: Pocket Books, 1984.
Duane, Diane, and Peter Morwood. The Romulan Way. New York: Pocket Books, 1987.
Erdmann, Terry J., Star Trek: Action!. New York: Pocket Books, 1998.
Erdmann, Terry J., with Paula M. Block. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion. New York: Pocket Books, 2000.
Friedman, Michael Jan, and Robert Greenberger. Q's Guide to the Continuum. New York: Pocket Books, 1998.
Hanley, Richard. Is Data Human? The Metaphysics of Star Trek. New York: Basic Books, 1997.
Johnson, Shane. Star Trek: Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise. New York: Pocket Books, 1987.
Joseph, Franz. Star Trek: Star Fleet Technical Manual. 2nd ed. New York: Ballantine Books, 1986.
Lebowitz, Adam "Mojo", and Robert Bonchune. Star Trek: Starship Spotter. New York: Pocket Books, 2001.
Mandel, Geoffrey. Star Trek: Star Charts. New York: Pocket Books, 2002.
Nemecek, Larry. Star Trek: The Next Generation Companion. ?th ed. New York: Pocket Books, 19??.
Okazaki, Masao. "The Starfleet Museum - A Report by Masao Okazaki."
Okuda, Michael, and Denise Okuda. The Star Trek Encyclopedia: A Reference Guide to the Future. 3rd ed. New York: Pocket Books, 1999.
Star Trek Chronology: The History of the Future. 2nd ed. New York: Pocket Books, 1996.
Poe, Stephen Edward. A Vision of the Future: Star Trek: Voyager. New York: Pocket Books, 1998.
Pugh, Steve. "Vessels of Starfleet - Introduction.
Reeves-Stevens, Judith & Garfield. The Making of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. New York: Pocket Books, 1994.
Schneider, Bernd. "Ex Astris Scientia - Bernd Schneider's Star Trek Site."
Sherwin, Jill. Quotable Star Trek. New York: Pocket Books, 1999.
Sternbach, Rick and Michael Okuda. Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual. New York: Pocket Books, 1991.
Zimmerman, Herman, Rick Sternbach, and Doug Drexler. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Technical Manual. New York: Pocket Books, 1998.

[Descent]

You know I've been looking through Gateworlds DS9 guide and I simply can't believe some of ratings these Season 7 episodes got...

For example:
The Seige of AR-558 - ** (Should've easily been a ****)
The Changing Face of Evil - **1/2 (Easily one of the best of the 10-part Final Arc, deserved more than ***)
What You Leave Behind - **!?! (Unbelievable, especially considering how perfect it was in a lot of ways)

And they gave Endgame a ***1/2? Its all quite frustrating considering how great DS9 is. To each his own I guess, Darren obviously didn't like DS9's final season. Why? I really don't know. The final Ten Episode Arc was rather genius in a lot of ways I thought.