Deep Space 9 Superior

[jsonitsac]

the fact that she was a solid 9.5/10 only added to the reasoning.

Did you know Marina Sirtis actually first tried out for the part of Tasha Yar, and Denise Crosby tried out for Troi? Ever since I heard that I've wondered how TNG would have turned out differently had they gotten those parts. Perhaps Troi would have been killed by Armus and Worf would have been the new counselor

[Starbase]

We also saw an El-Aurian named Martus Mazur in the DS9 episode Rivals.

We also got the infamous Dr. Tolian Soran from the Star Trek movie Generations.

I got this from my Star Trek Director's guide handbook.

El-Aurians were a humanoid species from El-Aurian system in the Delta Quadrant. They were also known as "Listeners," because of their conversational ability and wisdom, and they apparently had a limited form of empathy. The race was nearly exterminated when the Borg attacked their homeworld in the 2260s, and the surviving El-Aurians scattered across the stars. Two of these survivors were Guinan and Tolian Soran. (TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise"; DS9: "Rivals"; Star Trek Generations)

Before the Borg attack, the El-Aurians had traveled widely throughout the galaxy. Their general humanoid appearance and listening ability allowed them to blend in on many worlds, including Earth, where they visited in the 19th century (and perhaps earlier). (TNG: "Time's Arrow")

Many El-Aurians known to the Federation in the 24th century demonstrated a unique perception of the space-time continuum, frequently able to discern changes in the timeline and displaying preternatural insight. It is believed that this is a natural ability of the species, but may instead be a byproduct of an encounter 47 survivors had with the nexus ribbon in 2293. At least one El-Aurian seemed to be powerful enough to threaten a member of the Q Continuum. (TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Q Who?", Star Trek Generations)

The El-Aurian lifespan is undetermined, but known to be quite long, with some living to be over 1000 years old. Aside from their long-lived nature, and their perceptive abilities, El-Aurians appear indistinguishable from humans, and frequently intermarry with other species. Some sources indicate that El-Aurians do not require much sleep, if any. (Kal-Dixas Spaceport)

[Saquist]

It's probably crime motivated by poverty (which is the majority of crime) that's been eliminated. Tom Paris was in prison because he committed an act of rebellion against the Federation. That said, organized crime (as evidenced by the Orion Syndicate) still seems to be a problem in the 24th Century and Quark's cousin Gaila got put in jail for vagrancy on a Federation world.

If I remember correctly Roddenberry couldn't resolve Pirates and Criminal organization of that level with Star Trek.

I'm sure the Federation kept a Ft. Knox of Latinum to purchase things they couldn't produce, copy or replicate.

As far as Starfleet officers getting an actual pay check, I'm sure they did considering the large percentage of alien races that were part of Starfleet. I'm sure a lot of there worlds still had a monetary system. Plus a lot of Starfleet personnel are stationed on planets, or places like deep space nine, that require some kind of monies to buy stuff or eat out.

What if the method of Federation ecconomy colapsed? Latinum would be the only way to commerce. But then according to DS9 Gold is useless. But according to TNG Gold is the Ferengi God so to speak. And why would Gold be useless...it's one of the best conductors and it's still rare because it can't be replicated.

I don't get it.

[Captain Obvious]

I But then according to DS9 Gold is useless. But according to TNG Gold is the Ferengi God so to speak. And why would Gold be useless...it's one of the best conductors and it's still rare because it can't be replicated.

I don't get it.

No, gold is worthless, Gold-Pressed Latinum is gold being used as a suspension medium to hold latinum, a liquid metal used in many electronics and processes.

If you watched the episode of DS9 where morn faked his own death it completely explains it almost by accident. He had the latinum " expelled" from the gold and kept it in one of his stomachs (supposedly that's why he lost his hair).

God, my head has way too much useless knowledge in it.

[Rac80]

I'm sure the Federation kept a Ft. Knox of Latinum to purchase things they couldn't produce, copy or replicate.

As far as Starfleet officers getting an actual pay check, I'm sure they did considering the large percentage of alien races that were part of Starfleet. I'm sure a lot of there worlds still had a monetary system. Plus a lot of Starfleet personnel are stationed on planets, or places like deep space nine, that require some kind of monies to buy stuff or eat out.

they used "credits" --- I always thought it was an electronic money system. (Like people today who get checks directly deposited and then pay bills on line thus saving stamps, checks and time )

[the Fifth Race]

No, gold is worthless, Gold-Pressed Latinum is gold being used as a suspension medium to hold latinum, a liquid metal used in many electronics and processes.

If you watched the episode of DS9 where morn faked his own death it completely explains it almost by accident. He had the latinum " expelled" from the gold and kept it in one of his stomachs (supposedly that's why he lost his hair).

Who Mourns for Morn - One of the most wonderful stand alone episodes from the later seasons. Quark was absolutely price-less and even though Morn never spoke a word, he was loud and clear in that episode.

Gold was totally worthless on the universal market, whether it still had value on Earth or other planets was never really addressed on any of the Trek shows.

God, my head has way too much useless knowledge in it.

Welcome to my world Your knowledge is wonderfully delicious Captain Obvious. It just shows your true love for a great show and that's what makes this thread superior.

[the Fifth Race]

they used "credits" --- I always thought it was an electronic money system. (Like people today who get checks directly deposited and then pay bills on line thus saving stamps, checks and time )

Ahh Yes, Federation/Starfleet credits. We never really found out what they were actually worth. But I'm sure they could be exchanged for Latinum.

[Captain Obvious]

Your knowledge is wonderfully delicious Captain Obvious. It just shows your true love for a great show and that's what makes this thread superior.

glad you appreciate it.

on a side note- latinum is used as a plating material in place of pretty much everything else we use. Latinum jewelry and I know there was at least one instance of it being used for something on a ship (someone said something about salvaging the latinum from a casing on a ship in DS9 or TNG, I know it wasn't voyager, as I have recently been rewatching that one, 3 more discs to go.)

[USS Defiant]

DS9 Season IV Episode Discussion
Episode #74 Hippocratic Oath

Well, "Hippocratic Oath" can't really live up to the first two installments of this season 4. This episode is, however, another good outing, featuring an interesting twist in the Jem'Hadar, showing, for the first time, that they do have their own internal vulnerabilities.

Although this episode is not always on-the-money, it is a good premise, and the writers do capitalize on the opportunity expand character-wise. We again get a closer look at the Jem'Hadar and their lifestyle, which is no more than that of a 24-hour soldier. However, it's interesting to note how Goran'Agar becomes more and more able to think independently and question his service to the Founders now that he has freed himself of his drug addiction. He begins to develop his own moral structure.

Bashir begins thinking about helping Goran'Agar overcome the addiction - which puts him in major conflict with O'Brien on the matter. O'Brien, more of a hardened soldier himself, has doubts about Goran'Agar's sincerity. Besides, what if freeing the Jem'Hadar from the Founder's short-leash control leads the Jem'Hadar to go out on a conquering spree of the Alpha Quadrant? (a very valid question early on when we were still learning about the Jem'Hadar). O'Brien refuses to help them. Bashir orders him to. O'Brien disobeys the orders. The result is a rather unsettling clash of these two ideals and their friendship. Kudos to the writers for threatening one of the series most well-defined friendships over a high-staked polemical topic that these two see in completely opposite ways. This is what defines the heart of "Hippocratic Oath" and makes it work.

The resolution of the Jem'Hadar plot line goes basically the way it has to go. Bashir is ultimately unsuccessful, partly because O'Brien intervenes in (well, actually destroys) his attempts to free Goran'Agar's troops. Although the overall results of the plot are not exactly earth-shattering. And the character dynamics in this episode are terrific.

A subplot featuring Odo and Worf at odds with each other on security measures makes a whole lot of sense and has a number of relevant points. It shows Worf trying to adapt to his new position and drives home the point of how differently these two characters go about doing things. In a reassuring scene between Sisko and Worf, the Captain tells him that starship officers often find it a bit awkward learning the unofficial rules of the station. "You'll fit in, Commander," he tells him. "Just give it time." I give it a 8.1 rating.

[Nemises]

They reused the same footage in the last battle in the final episode from the earlier one. I wasn't pleased at that...its not like they aren't making any money.

[the Fifth Race]

DS9 Season IV Episode Discussion
Episode #74 Hippocratic Oath

The A-plot has another Bashir/O'Brien adventure but this time has them turn against each other when they come across a group of rogue Jem'Hader. By now the two have a clear but unspoken man-love for each other and its quite upsetting seeing them fight. But the highlight of episode is the Jem'Hader who come off as tragic monsters used by the Founders. The episode succeeds in making everyone fairly sympathetic to them (It was an interesting storyline arc the writers came up with). The Worf B-plot is less exciting but serves its purpose of seeing him adjust to his new life. Good stuff. I give it a 7.2 rating.

[Saquist]

glad you appreciate it.

Ditto.

We also got the infamous Dr. Tolian Soran from the Star Trek movie Generations.

I got this from my Star Trek Director's guide handbook.

El-Aurians were a humanoid species from El-Aurian system in the Delta Quadrant. They were also known as "Listeners," because of their conversational ability and wisdom, and they apparently had a limited form of empathy. The race was nearly exterminated when the Borg attacked their homeworld in the 2260s, and the surviving El-Aurians scattered across the stars. Two of these survivors were Guinan and Tolian Soran. (TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise"; DS9: "Rivals"; Star Trek Generations)

Before the Borg attack, the El-Aurians had traveled widely throughout the galaxy. Their general humanoid appearance and listening ability allowed them to blend in on many worlds, including Earth, where they visited in the 19th century (and perhaps earlier). (TNG: "Time's Arrow")

Many El-Aurians known to the Federation in the 24th century demonstrated a unique perception of the space-time continuum, frequently able to discern changes in the timeline and displaying preternatural insight. It is believed that this is a natural ability of the species, but may instead be a byproduct of an encounter 47 survivors had with the nexus ribbon in 2293. At least one El-Aurian seemed to be powerful enough to threaten a member of the Q Continuum. (TNG: "Yesterday's Enterprise", "Q Who?", Star Trek Generations)

The El-Aurian lifespan is undetermined, but known to be quite long, with some living to be over 1000 years old. Aside from their long-lived nature, and their perceptive abilities, El-Aurians appear indistinguishable from humans, and frequently intermarry with other species. Some sources indicate that El-Aurians do not require much sleep, if any. (Kal-Dixas Spaceport)

Thank you. Highly informative.

No, gold is worthless, Gold-Pressed Latinum is gold being used as a suspension medium to hold latinum, a liquid metal used in many electronics and processes.

If you watched the episode of DS9 where morn faked his own death it completely explains it almost by accident. He had the latinum " expelled" from the gold and kept it in one of his stomachs (supposedly that's why he lost his hair).

God, my head has way too much useless knowledge in it.

But the Ferengi in TNG make a really big fuss...I mean BIG fuss over the Gold Communicator Riker and the away team had, tasting it, touching it.

I wanted to write a book at one time called "Ferengi Latinum & Gold" attempt to explain why in about five years the Ferengi esentially abandon theire gold reserves for latinum.

[nx01a]

[Retconning away...]
Perhaps they simply thought there was latinum suspended in its matrix?

[Krisz]

I've had a great time catching up here. I miss not being online as much now with RL getting in the way, but it's always wonderful to come back here and see what everyone has been discussing, informative and entertaining as always!

Indeed he was. The utter disdain the Changelings showed for any race of solids was down-right frightening - They don't want to rule us, or use our resources, or enslave us, they simply wanted to kill everyone of us. Odo never showed this side, which at the very least left some hope that other Changelings felt the way Odo did. And like you stated Lady Mariel - when Odo was made a solid as punishment, his compassion and more importantly his understanding of having limitations as a solid also went along way in respecting us solids as a whole.

I hope that one day either a new Trek series or a future Trek movie re-visits the Dominions domain to see what's going on with that part of the galaxy (Gamma Quadrant).

They were badly treated by the “solids” in the course of their history and became bitter towards them. This is what made them ‘turn’ so to speak, they’d had enough and decided to give the solids a taste of their own medicine. This bitterness does come out and has become a part of the Founder psyche unfortunately. The fact that Odo has some empathy for the solids, is perhaps a measure of what they used to be like as a species. I felt it was Odo who helped the Founders to rediscover what they’d lost as a race, and rediscover how to co-exist alongside the solids once again, but with an understanding between them rather than the fear and ignorance each had of the other.

As always, I too hope the Founders and the Gamma Quadrant are revisited one day.

Hi ya Col. Rebel, welcome to the superior thread and wholeheartedly agree with your assessment about DS9 having the best writing. I would'nt call myself a big ENT fan, but I do own all season on DVD Box Sets. IMO Manny Coto had the series going in the right driection in season 4, and if you read the plans they had for season 5 (like Shran joining the Enterprises crew), it did sound like the show was going to get much better.

ENT was getting better in the 4th series. It is sad that we never got to see these great plans. Shran joining the Enterprise crew sounds great, I would really have loved to see that, he was one of my favourite characters on ENT along with Dr Phlox and Trip.

I agree too. Destroying an innocent species in the course of your war with someone else is just asking for trouble. And as for destroying the wormhole, which is in Bajoran territory... Actually, the whole thing reminds me of the Schlieffen Plan at the start of World War I, when Germany tried to invade France by attacking though Belgium, thinking that A) it was only a wee country and would fall really easily, and B) who cares about the Belgians anyway? Big mistake...

Oh, you really brought back memories of my school and university days, studying the causes of the WWI! I haven’t heard the Schlieffen plan mentioned in ages! A wonderful analogy, I think too, that thinking of the Bajorans and the wormhole as an ‘acceptable loss,’ and the repercussions of what could ensue from this would also be something the Federation could never have anticipated.

Except that I doubt the Breen did not guest this already, I bet that they recognised that the founders were dying off, some undercover scans, a captured section 31 spy. An thought they could seize much of the federation territory an secure it before they did. They hope the founders would then die and the tectra cell white would run out making Jem'Hadar a pretty useless bunch of warriors who fight an destroy themselves, all the Breen would have to do is stay out of the way.

They could also count on the wormhole aliens keeping any chance of gammar quadrant reinforcements to arrive.

The Breen acted like the changeling an Jem'Hadar were just annoyance in there plans. I also like the way they told the founders to wipe the cardassians out it seem like they saw the cardassians as annoyance to.
They may of even thought that they would be able to use the Jem'Hadar or at least the technology to make there own clone army to enforce there rule over the quadrant.
Either way the Breen entered the war as a play for power, I would also bet that there fleet was much larger than even the founders new, she was shock that they were able to deploy the numbers that they were. I bet they had even more ships able to be deployed as soon the fed an Klingons an Romulans alliance was taken care off.

I would of love to of learnt more about the Breen and why they had grudge against earth.

I like your thinking with the Breen. They were always so enigmatic and aloof, you just know they were playing everyone for some nefarious purpose of their own. I certainly would love to know what the Breen had against Earth too.

As usual so many things brought up in DS9 that you wish were explored further. DS9 created such a wonderfully rich view of the Alpha Quadrant, it opened the way for so much I felt, shame we’ve never seen it. I can only hope it will picked up on at some point when the TPTB get bored with exploring the past of the Federation and start looking at its future again.

I loved Q's brief appearence on DS9. Sisko gave him a punch in the nose and basically told him to take a hike. Besides that DS9 didn't need Q or the Borg for that matter as a rating ploy like TNG and especially VOY did. It stood on it's own just fine.

I think we’re the only members of the Q on DS9 appreciation society. I like Q as a character, even omnipotent beings can act ‘childish’, instead of aloof and superior all the time like the ascended Ancients for example! I liked how he had a fascination for the human race, almost like an irritating itch he couldn't scratch! That’s what I found refreshing about Trek’s take on the ‘omnipotent race’.

I have said many times that the relationship between sisko and jake was what drew me to DS9 initally. I was a fairly young parent at the time myself (Jake was 14 and my daughter was 11) and I loved watching the interactions between father and son. I say that not only are their few non-dysfunctional ethnic families portrayed on tv, there are few non dysfunctional families of any sort. I severely limited my daughter's access to tv because of the way the characters her age acted (rude, smart-arsed, etc...), ways I would not permit her to act. Depite his whiney years (which every teen goes through) jake Sisko was a very well behaved and respectful son. An excellent role model for my daughter. Ben sisko was also an excellent role model as a parent....firm but loving. Most tv parents are either cruel or gutless, there is no middle ground on TV. Yaaay for DS9 for show accurately showing us the middle ground!

Well said, couldn’t agree more. It is sad and depressing to see such ‘role’ models portrayed all the time on TV, they are either sickly sweet or downright uncaring in their interactions with eachother. DS9 certainly gave a view of a familial relationship I could relate to as well.

If you don’t treat your children with respect, how can you expect it back from them, Jake and Sisko had that attitude towards eachother. It was so good to see that easygoing father son relationship on screen, based on a firm base of knowing boundaries and learning from mistakes and allowing themselves to see them and admit them.

No, gold is worthless, Gold-Pressed Latinum is gold being used as a suspension medium to hold latinum, a liquid metal used in many electronics and processes.

If you watched the episode of DS9 where morn faked his own death it completely explains it almost by accident. He had the latinum " expelled" from the gold and kept it in one of his stomachs (supposedly that's why he lost his hair).

God, my head has way too much useless knowledge in it.

LOL! A Trekkie you are indeed! I have been accused of such over the years!

I thought that was funny too, how the gold part of the latinum was discarded, much like copper is today, it has its uses but not as valuable as gold. Copper used to be a valuable metal to the Celts for instance.

[nx01a]

Copper is quite useful and dang expensive.

I was SO hoping to see a Borg cube come through the wormhole before the Dominion were introduced.