Deep Space 9 Superior

[HirogenGater]

The Borg and Q ones are awesome Trek_Girl!, two of the best things about TNG were the Borg and Q, personally I never get tired of watching any episode with either of them involved in it.


I was thinking about those DVDs we made with the best of TNG when these fan collective DVDs became available. I am pretty sure they had all the TNG Q and Borg episodes on them.

I always wished DS9 did a Borg episode. I know they appeared in the pilot but something around Season 5 would have been cool. Not a direct confrontation, but something more subtle. Like encountering some Borg sepearted from the Collective.

[Starbase]

I always wished DS9 did a Borg episode. I know they appeared in the pilot but something around Season 5 would have been cool. Not a direct confrontation, but something more subtle. Like encountering some Borg sepearted from the Collective.

Amen to that brother HG!,

I remember when DS9 was originally aired, brother Fifth Race and I were avid watchers (never missed an episode). We talked about a possible storyline where the Dominion became such an unstoppable force that the only hope the Alpha Quadrant had of stopping them was to make an alliance with the Borg so they could join the Starfleet led coalition to try and destroy the Jem Ha'Dar and Dominion.

[the Fifth Race]

I remember when DS9 was originally aired, brother Fifth Race and I were avid watchers (never missed an episode). We talked about a possible storyline where the Dominion became such an unstoppable force that the only hope the Alpha Quadrant had of stopping them was to make an alliance with the Borg so they could join the Starfleet led coalition to try and destroy the Jem Ha'Dar and Dominion.

Awww yes, I remember those conversations very well. My idea was that the Federation would be so overwhelmed especially if the Founders were able to re-open the wormhole or that the Founders would have produced enough "Alpha Quadrant" JemHa'Dar soldiers considering that they could mature from an infant to a fully grown and fighting JemHa'Dar in a matter of weeks. Even with the Romulans joining the growing Federation alliance it wouldn't have been enough to stop the Dominion from taking over the whole Alpha Quadrant. So the Federation would be forced to make a deal with the devil (Borg) so to speak to save them from totally being wiped out by the Dominion. The Borg would see the Dominion as not only a threat to the Alpha Quadrant but to all the surrounding galaxies including themselves.

What do you think fellow Trekkies?.

[Starbase]

Awww yes, I remember those conversations very well. My idea was that the Federation would be so overwhelmed especially if the Founders were able to re-open the wormhole or that the Founders would have produced enough "Alpha Quadrant" JemHa'Dar soldiers considering that they could mature from an infant to a fully grown and fighting JemHa'Dar in a matter of weeks. Even with the Romulans joining the growing Federation alliance it wouldn't have been enough to stop the Dominion from taking over the whole Alpha Quadrant. So the Federation would be forced to make a deal with the devil (Borg) so to speak to save them from totally being wiped out by the Dominion. The Borg would see the Dominion as not only a threat to the Alpha Quadrant but to all the surrounding galaxies including themselves.

I have often wondered how the Dominion (at full strength) would do against the Borg. The scenario you purpose with the Dominion having full access to the wormhole without the Prophets or the Federation being able to stop them coupled with the Dominion being able to genetically produce millions of JemHa'Dar soldiers and a massive fleet a whole lot faster than anything anyone including the Borg could do to match, surely dooms the Alpha Quadrant to a very dark and dim future!.

The only real scenario I can think of off the top of my head where the Borg would be willing to join the Federation is if the Federation can make certain promises to the Borg about not trying to destroy them at every chance meeting and most likely we would also have to supply them with people that might be terminally ill or willing to become a Borg?.

I would also be interested in any of our fellow Trek brethren's thoughts or ideas on this scenario?.

[kmiller1610]

The Jem Hadar would enoy being part of the collective. They wouldn't have to report to those Smarmy Vorta any more.

I would not want to join forces with the Borg in this case, but might change my mind if we could prove that the Borg could not absorb shapeshifter technology. Can you imagine shapeshifter Borg ships .......?

[the Fifth Race]

The Jem Hadar would enjoy being part of the collective. They wouldn't have to report to those Smarmy Vorta any more.

LOL....I get the feeling the JemHa'Dar would sell there souls if they didn't have to take orders from the Vorta anymore.

Do you get the feeling that the JemHadar are not as committed to worshipping the Founders nearly as much as the Vorta do?.

IMHO I got the feeling that after the JemHadar had been exposed to various Alpha Quadrant races, especially the warrior type races like the Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians there allegiance towards the Founders and especially Vorta waned. It almost like they saw a side of themselves in these races and saw how they live free without having to worship phony Gods. It seemed like certain JemHadar had grown weary of the Founders and Vorta and might have eventually fled to start there own independent society?.

[Starbase]

Do you get the feeling that the JemHadar are not as committed to worshipping the Founders nearly as much as the Vorta do?.

IMHO I got the feeling that after the JemHadar had been exposed to various Alpha Quadrant races, especially the warrior type races like the Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians there allegiance towards the Founders and especially Vorta waned. It almost like they saw a side of themselves in these races and saw how they live free without having to worship phony Gods. It seemed like certain JemHadar had grown weary of the Founders and Vorta and might have eventually fled to start there own independent society?.

The JemHadar seemed less emotional about worshipping and even showed some disdain for not only the Vorta but the Founders in a few episodes.

I agree that after the JemHadar had been exposed to different warrior races they did seem to change there attitude about Alpha Quadrant races. I had a feeling that they would have turned on the Vorta and Founders if the series didn't end the way it did.

[the Fifth Race]

The JemHadar seemed less emotional about worshipping and even showed some disdain for not only the Vorta but the Founders in a few episodes.

You could almost see the JemHadar rolling there eyes when the Vorta bowed in submission and kissed the Founders azz.

I agree that after the JemHadar had been exposed to different warrior races they did seem to change there attitude about Alpha Quadrant races. I had a feeling that they would have turned on the Vorta and Founders if the series didn't end the way it did.

Right after the season V two part episode we recently discussed In Purgatory's Shadow and By Inferno's Light when the #1 JemHadar refused to kill Worf after the Vorta ordered him to do so knowing full well that he would killed by disobeying the Vorta. That is when we saw the respect and even admiration the JemHadar had for the Klingons and there honor code, there was definite change in the JemHadar's attitude.

[Starbase]

You could almost see the JemHadar rolling there eyes when the Vorta bowed in submission and kissed the Founders azz.

Exactly, you and I have talked about this in the past my friend, I can remember you telling me do not be surprised if the JemHadar turn on the Founders and Vorta.

Right after the season V two part episode we recently discussed In Purgatory's Shadow and By Inferno's Light when the #1 JemHadar refused to kill Worf after the Vorta ordered him to do so knowing full well that he would killed by disobeying the Vorta. That is when we saw the respect and even admiration the JemHadar had for the Klingons and there honor code, there was definite change in the JemHadar's attitude.

That II parter was DS9 at its best!, so much went on and yet it all flowed into a perfect climax. Great writing.

There were a handful of stand up JemHadar throughout the series from there introduction at the end of season II. There were also a handful of stand up Vorta as well.

[Missster.Freeman]

I agree that after the JemHadar had been exposed to different warrior races they did seem to change there attitude about Alpha Quadrant races. I had a feeling that they would have turned on the Vorta and Founders if the series didn't end the way it did.

Yeah, even the first encounter with the Jem'Hadar, the First that spoke to Sisko said he wished it was a Klingon instead of a human they had captured. The Jem'Hadar would've preferred to test themselves against the more warrior-like species of the Alpha Quadrant.

There were a handful of stand up JemHadar throughout the series from there introduction at the end of season II. There were also a handful of stand up Vorta as well.

In that two-parter in season 5, I started to see the Jem'Hadar in a new light, but it was the season 6 episode "Rocks and Shoals" that I really started to respect the Jem'Hadar.

[Starbase]

Yeah, even the first encounter with the Jem'Hadar, the First that spoke to Sisko said he wished it was a Klingon instead of a human they had captured. The Jem'Hadar would've preferred to test themselves against the more warrior-like species of the Alpha Quadrant.

Good point, even in that early episode the JemHadar showed (like you point out brother MF) they were more interested in "testing" themselves and not so much in dealing with us weaker humans. The female Vorta in that episode presented a quagmire for me personally in that she lied to try and trick us yet she easily could have killed Sisko and company but didn't and showed some honor in the end. It left we wondering about who and what the Vorta and JemHadar were going to be like in future storylines.

In that two-parter in season 5, I started to see the Jem'Hadar in a new light, but it was the season 6 episode "Rocks and Shoals" that I really started to respect the Jem'Hadar.

Great call on Rocks and Shoals, similar to the episode The First Sisko and crew are thrown into a situation dealing with a Vorta leading a group of JemHadar. The Vorta was so slimy yet he did what he needed to to save himself and the marooned Federation group by sacrificing the JemHadar. This was a great episode.

[Missster.Freeman]

It left we wondering about who and what the Vorta and JemHadar were going to be like in future storylines.

I had been thinking about this as well. I've wondered what would happen to the Jem'Hadar and the Vorta post hostilities. I know the Vorta cloning facilities were completely destroyed during the war. Or was it just the factories located in the Alpha quadrant?

I would like to see how the Jem'Hadar progress now that there is no more war (at the minute anyway) for them to fight. Would the Federation and their allies seek war reparations in the form of shutting down the Jem'Hadar hatcheries, thus rendering them extinct? Or would they allow them to exist, and maybe risk them becoming power hungry? We did have that episode with the breakaway faction of the Jem'Hadar, where they wanted to control the Iconian gateways and take over the Gamma Quadrant and Federation. They might even become honourable like the Klingons, even though they'd still be warlike. It would be hard for the Jem'Hadar to change that basic instinct for conflict that was bred into their genetic makeup.

There are still a lot of questions to be answered in the post-war galaxy. It would be interesting to see what became of the Dominion species in a future film or new TV series.


I've just realised that this thread has reached a milestone. The 1000th post was made yesterday.

[HirogenGater]

Great call on Rocks and Shoals, similar to the episode The First Sisko and crew are thrown into a situation dealing with a Vorta leading a group of JemHadar. The Vorta was so slimy yet he did what he needed to to save himself and the marooned Federation group by sacrificing the JemHadar. This was a great episode.

I love Rocks and Shoals! One of the few I taped when it originally aired. It was so fantastic to see the episode again on DVD. It really changed me outlook on the Jem' Hadar.

[HirogenGater]

I had been thinking about this as well. I've wondered what would happen to the Jem'Hadar and the Vorta post hostilities. I know the Vorta cloning facilities were completely destroyed during the war. Or was it just the factories located in the Alpha quadrant?

I would like to see how the Jem'Hadar progress now that there is no more war (at the minute anyway) for them to fight. Would the Federation and their allies seek war reparations in the form of shutting down the Jem'Hadar hatcheries, thus rendering them extinct? Or would they allow them to exist, and maybe risk them becoming power hungry? We did have that episode with the breakaway faction of the Jem'Hadar, where they wanted to control the Iconian gateways and take over the Gamma Quadrant and Federation. They might even become honourable like the Klingons, even though they'd still be warlike. It would be hard for the Jem'Hadar to change that basic instinct for conflict that was bred into their genetic makeup.

There are still a lot of questions to be answered in the post-war galaxy. It would be interesting to see what became of the Dominion species in a future film or new TV series.


I've just realised that this thread has reached a milestone. The 1000th post was made yesterday.

Something I have also pondered in my free time. It was interesting to see the lone Jem'Hadar character in the DS9 re-launch book series. Everyone should take a look at those if they get a chance.

[kmiller1610]

I know the Vorta cloning facilities were completely destroyed during the war.

Just watched that last week. While it's clear that the cloning facility was destroyed, in another part of the episode, it's mentioned that the attempt on the system itself failed. I always wonder about those kinds of details.......