Deep Space 9 Superior

[the Fifth Race]

but clarify this for me. Do the founders want to civilize the Alpha quadrant because we are backward and they are trying to "save" us? They didn't strike me as the power hungry types.

The Founders (the changelings) want nothing to do with solids, they look upon us as inferior yet as Odo points out to the female Founder who is going to be the head changeling in the Alpha quadrant that solids have a lot to offer and are not all inherently evil.

The Founders got freaked out when Starfleet and the Defiant in particular started making regular trips into the Gamma quadrant (where the Founders home world is) and that's when they decided that they had to crush all solids in the Alpha quadrant thinking that we would eventually try to destroy them (paranoid thinking). That's the real reason they are going to wage war on us.

Your observation that the Founders are not power hungry is accurate Kmiller, without giving the storyline away you will find out in season 7 (when the Dominion War is fully raging) that the Founders were going to split every planet in the Alpha quadrant (including Earth) among the various Vorta's to run and do with as they please, again proving they want nothing to do with solids other than killing us all including ally races from the Alpha quadrant that will join the Founders in fighting Starfleet. The Founders are a truly evil and powerful yet very naive race.

The Vorta and especially the Jem Ha'dar (even though they are solids) are genetically engineered to do all the bidding of the Founders while worshipping them as God's (which you will see in seasons 6 & 7), yet the Founders show affection and admiration for the Vorta and Jem Ha'dar, almost like they were there children (which in a sense they are).

[the Fifth Race]

I have a question (not exactly about season five), I saw the episode "Jem'Hadar" the other day, and was that woman trapped with Sisko and Quark who turned out to be a spy a Vorta?

The Jem'Hadar is a great episode from the end of season II.....

Yes that was a Vorta named Eris who faked that she was also being held as a prisoner of the Dominion so she could learn about the intentions of the new solids and Starfleet to there quadrant. That was the episode that put the whole Dominion war angle in motion. First the lead Jem'Hadar tells Sisko and Quark that the Dominion will not tolerate anymore incursions into there quadrant and there was the other scene when a Jem Ha'dar soldier beams to DS9 from a cloaked Dominion ship to tell TPTB on DS9 that Sisko is being detained them disappears.

I love how they teased us with the whole Dominion angle in season II yet it wasn't till seasons 5, 6 and 7 that the Dominion war storyline was developed.

[kmiller1610]

The Jem'Hadar is a great episode from the end of season II..... I love how they teased us with the whole Dominion angle in season II yet it wasn't till seasons 5, 6 and 7 that the Dominion war storyline was developed.

Yes. That kind of patience in a Sci Fi or ANY series is pretty unusual ..... Now, if the gateheads could only see the Nox again .....

[the Fifth Race]

Yes. That kind of patience in a Sci Fi or ANY series is pretty unusual ..... Now, if the gateheads could only see the Nox again .....

It is very unusual, and that is exactly why I pointed it out. They took there time and very slowly developed the Dominion storyline a lot like they did on TNG with the Borg.

I would love to see the Nox and or the Tollans again, although with them being portrayed as very xenophobic races I doubt we will.

Again Kmiller you will learn all about the Founders, Jem'Hadar and the Vorta in great detail with seasons 6 & 7. TPTB put a lot of fore thought into them and the end result does not disappoint.

[Starbase]

The Jem'Hadar is a great episode from the end of season II.....
I love how they teased us with the whole Dominion angle in season II yet it wasn't till seasons 5, 6 and 7 that the Dominion war storyline was developed.

I always found that unusual when I was watching DS9 during its original airing. We got teased with the Vorta and Jem'Hadar at the end of season II expecting that would be the storyline arc they would take into season III. But it really wasn't till the end of season V that it started to play out. I remember thinking the Jem'Hadar are a very wicked looking and powerful race that are designed for battle and war, which I liked, plus they were new to the Trek universe (not being seen anywhere before).

The wormhole to the Gamma quadrant opened up a window for great storylines on DS9 and IMHO TPTB did a great job of creating the Founders, Vorta and Jem'Hadar (ie. the Dominion). I rank the Dominion as the strongest foe (slightly worse than the Borg) that Starfleet and the Alpha quadrant ever faced.

[Starbase]

Fairly complex and interesting lines of authority. I do remember some stuff on the Founders from season 4, but clarify this for me. Do the founders want to civilize the Alpha quadrant because we are backward and they are trying to "save" us? They didn't strike me as the power hungry types.

Fifth Races description of the hierarchy of the Dominion is excellent!.

My take on the Founders is that they are like the Ancients from SG in that they do want to concern themselves with solids what so ever. But unlike the Ancients they felt threatened by the new incursions of ships from the Alpha Quadrant because the Founders home world is closely located to the worm hole on the Gamma Quadrant side. The Founders never waged war against solid races in the Gamma quadrant due to fact the races they encountered there were not nearly as advanced technology wise as the Starfleet and other Alpha Quadrant races.

I do not believe the Founders are inherently evil or war mongers. They misunderstood that humanoids are adventerous and explorers by nature and there response was to wage war instead of trying to start a dialogue. The lack of knowledge and information that the Founders had about the Alpha Quadrant and solids in general is easy discern in the fact that Odo and handful of other Founders (shape-shifters) were sent blindly to different galaxies so they could learn about whatever races or species they encounter then they were to report back to the Founders homeworld to share whatever information they gathered with the "Great Link". The "Great Link" is basically the ability that the Founders have when they are on there home-world. It allows them (shape-shifters) to all see and hear everything each Founder knows or is thinking by basically joining with each other when they are in a gelatinous state

[the Fifth Race]

The wormhole to the Gamma quadrant opened up a window for great story-lines on DS9 and IMHO TPTB did a great job of creating the Founders, Vorta and Jem'Hadar (ie. the Dominion). I rank the Dominion as the strongest foe (slightly worse than the Borg) that Starfleet and the Alpha quadrant ever faced.

I totally agree brother Base, the Dominion is a stronger race in the fact they are able to think outside the box and manipulate other races and species to join there cause with false promises of power and conquest.

How brilliant were the Founders to come up with a custom made race (the Jem'Hadar) that they created in a lab. The Jem'Hadar are bred to be twice as strong as a human, they need no rest, food or fluids, they are bred to mature from a baby into full adulthood with all the skills to fight and worship the Founders in a matter of weeks. Plus the fact they are also born addicted to 'Ketra'cel White' which only the Vorta can distribute to them under a religious type of ceremony and only if they deem them worthy. Interesting and wicked stuff.

[kmiller1610]

Again Kmiller you will learn all about the Founders, Jem'Hadar and the Vorta in great detail with seasons 6 & 7. TPTB put a lot of fore thought into them and the end result does not disappoint.

Already on the 2nd disk of Season 6. It is excellent. I will hold off on any discussion until we get to season 6 in this thread. Thanks for background on the dominion hiearchy. Helps a lot.

[the Fifth Race]

Already on the 2nd disk of Season 6. It is excellent. I will hold off on any discussion until we get to season 6 in this thread. Thanks for background on the dominion hiearchy. Helps a lot.

Excellent, I will get through season V by next weekend so we can move onto season 6.

You will get to the episode "In the Pale Moonlight" towards the second half of season 6 which is not only my favorite DS9 episode but it is also my favorite alltime Star Trek episode. I have heard more than few fellow Trek fans on this thread say the samething.

[Starbase]

You will get to the episode "In the Pale Moonlight" towards the second half of season 6 which is not only my favorite DS9 episode but it is also my favorite alltime Star Trek episode. I have heard more than few fellow Trek fans on this thread say the samething.

Count me as one of them!.... 'In The Pale Moonlight' has it all, and is a turning point in the war and sets up everything else to come. Sisko and especially Garak were at there very best in this outstanding episode.

[HirogenGater]

Excellent, I will get through season V by next weekend so we can move onto season 6.

You will get to the episode "In the Pale Moonlight" towards the second half of season 6 which is not only my favorite DS9 episode but it is also my favorite alltime Star Trek episode. I have heard more than few fellow Trek fans on this thread say the samething.

I love that episode. I can still remember sitting ang viewing it for the first time. Was it the only Trek episode that was done as a personal log?

[the Fifth Race]

I love that episode. I can still remember sitting ang viewing it for the first time. Was it the only Trek episode that was done as a personal log?

That is great question brother Hirogen, I never even thought about the whole episode being Sisko's personal log of the prior 48 hours. I will do some research and see if I can come up anything similar.

[Starbase]

I love that episode. I can still remember sitting ang viewing it for the first time. Was it the only Trek episode that was done as a personal log?

That is a good question HG!.

Off the top of my head I can remember a couple of episodes that were mainly all personal log flash backs to events that occured in there recent past.

The first one was a great DS9 episode from season II called "Whispers" where O'Brien starts the episode talking to his personal log and then the events are relived by flashbacks. If I remember right most of the episode was flashbacks.

The other episode is from season VII of TNG called "Parallels" where the episode starts with Worf coming back from a Bat'leth tournament and is making a entry into a personal log on a shuttle. He keeps flashing to different realoties throughout the whole episode while talking to his personal log. This was also a great episode!

[the Fifth Race]

Those were two great episodes brother Base. Besides them both being flashback episodes while narrating to there personal logs, like Sisko in the episode "In The Pale Moonlight" both O'Brien and Worf struggled with frustration about the events (alternate universe type shenanigans) happening around them. Good call my friend!.

[the Fifth Race]

DS9 episodes 3 and 4 from season V.....

Looking for par'Mach in all the Wrong Places
While having a drink with Dax, Worf is taken by the sight of Grilka, a Klingon woman, as she enters the station with Tumek and her guard, Thopok. Worf falls instantly in love, and watches, horrified, as Grilka kisses Quark. Grilka is Quark's ex-wife, thanks to a complicated marriage of convenience. Undaunted, Worf decides to pursue Grilka, and tries to capture her attention at Quark's. He is crushed when Tumek says that, since Worf is dishonored among Klingons, Grilka can never mate with him. Tumek then adds insult to injury by commenting that Worf's human upbringing shows he knows nothing about how to pursue a Klingon woman.
Later, Quark asks Worf and Dax for help. Grilka has invited him to dinner in her quarters, and he has no idea what to do. Despite his feelings for Grilka, Worf offers some courtship pointers and the evening is a huge success. Quark thanks Worf enthusiastically for his help, commenting that Worf seems to have the key to Grilka's heart. Quark asks Worf to help him win Grilka and, seeing it as a chance to prove he knows plenty about Klingon women, Worf agrees.

In a holosuite, Worf and Dax help Quark act out a Klingon battle scene, which bores Quark until he learns that the fight culminates with the male and female warrior joining in mad, passionate love. Later that night, after he and Grilka have apparently acted out the ritual on their own, Grilka and Quark share a romantic drink. Watching them outrages Thopok, and he challenges Quark to fight to the death.

Quark's situation is hopeless — if he doesn't fight, he loses Grilka. If he does, he loses his life. But Dax has an idea. Worf uses a virtual control device to move Quark's body, effectively fighting for him. With the plan ready, Dax questions Worf about his attraction to Grilka andhints that he should pursue someone more attainable. Worf, however, is clueless to Dax's advances. Later, the battle begins, and with Worf hidden in a holosuite controlling Quark's every move, the Ferengi performs admirably — at least until Worf accidentally damages the virtual control device. Quark is left defenseless in the middle of the battle of his life.

Quark stops the fight and, realizes he must come up with a solution, stalls. Pretending that Ferengi tradition demands that he make a lengthy speech about his beloved, he begins talking about Grilka, while Worf and Dax rush to fix the virtual control device. They are successful, and the fight is on again — Quark quickly knocks Thopok to the floor. But instead of killing his opponent, Worf has Quark deliver his sword to Grilka, allowing her to discharge Thopok while letting him retain his honor. Now alone, Quark and Grilka fall all over each other passionately. Elsewhere, alone with Dax, Worf finally succumbs to her advances, realizing that his ideal woman may have been in front of him all along.

...Nor the Battle to the Strong
Writing a profile on Dr. Bashir, Jake Sisko is traveling with him in a runabout when they get a distress call from a Federation colony under attack by Klingons. Sure that watching a doctor treating battle casualties will make for an interesting story, Jake convinces Bashir that they must go, despite concern over taking the 18-year-old Sisko to a battleground. Once they arrive, Jake is stunned by the sight of scores of wounded and dying people. But before Jake can process what he has seen, he and Bashir are asked to lend a hand to the overburdened medical team.
Jake is put to work moving patients, and winds up exhausted and bloodied. Unfortunately, the team won't have much time for rest — the Klingons are supposedly regrouping and preparing to attack again. Jake hears that the Klingons will probably capture the settlement in two days, and he can barely hide his concern. Suddenly, the power goes out — the Klingons have disabled the reactor. With life-support knocked off-line, the patients are in grave danger. Bashir remembers the portable generator on the runabout, and he and Jake set off to get it, but when explosions rip into the ground around them, Jake panics and runs away.

Fleeing aimlessly, Jake is mistaken for a Klingon by a dying soldier, who knocks him down with his rifle butt. Jake wants to get help for the man, thinking this will somehow change what he has done. Sadly, the soldier is too far gone, and Jake can only stay with him until he dies. Then he runs again.

Sisko heads toward the imperiled settlement in the Defiant, but is days away from reaching the planet. Meanwhile, Jake returns to the cavern where the medical team is based, and, since no one saw him run away, pretends he was knocked out by the explosions. Bashir is angry at himself for putting Jake in danger, which only makes Jake feel worse. Talk of the imminent Klingon invasion only adds to it — and Jake angrily snaps at the gallows humor employed by the rest of the group as they await their fate. Bashir calls him outside to talk, but Jake is too ashamed of himself to admit to Bashir the truth about what happened, and refuses to talk at all.

While Jake is sleeping, the Klingon force finally attacks. The medical team prepares to evacuate everyone through a long tunnel. The petrified Jake hides alone as explosions rock the compound. A guard defending the tunnel entry is shot and killed — and two Klingons begin to fire at Jake. In a panic, he grabs a weapon and starts firing wildly in the direction of the Klingons, closing the entrance of the cave in an avalanche of debris, some of which collapses on him. Later, Jake awakens to see Sisko and Bashir, who tell him that his actions stopped the Klingons and saved the patients. Jake, however, refuses to let himself off the hook. Instead of writing the article about Bashir, he writes about his own behavior during the heat of battle, admitting that the line between courage and cowardice is thinner than he thought.