Deep Space 9 Superior

[jelgate]

So was I. It would have been so easy for them to create a romance between those two and left it that way. But enter Romeo Rodney and you have something unique but rather unlikely. I wonder where they will take this side-story romance before the series ends.

You really don't want to know.And to stay on topic. DS9 always did ships the best.

[USS Defiant]

DS9 season III Epsiode Discussion
Episode #63 Distant Voices

"Distant Voices" is strange, atypical, offbeat and often quite interesting. Joe Menosky always comes up with rather off-beat storylines. He's the guy who brought us TNG's "Darmok," "Masks" and "Emergence," as well as DS9's "Dramatis Personae" and "Rivals." Sometimes Menosky concepts can be terrific stories, like the dramatic "Darmok." Sometimes they can be bizarre works which seem to beam in from other galaxies, like the laughably horrendous "Masks."

"Distant Voices" is a mixed bag. It has some good moments, and it keeps one intrigued. But there just isn't enough substance from scripters Behr and Wolfe to keep Menosky's concept moving along.

The concept: A telepathic attack by a Lethean criminal (Victor Rivers) leaves Dr. Bashir dying in a coma. The story is told from inside Bashir's mind. Each facet of his personality is represented by one of his DS9 comrades. In order to survive, he must use the different parts of his personality to repair a dead Deep Space Nine. (The station, of course, represents Bashir's own mind.)

The episode begins in a cloud of mystery as Bashir apparently wakes up from the Lethean's attack to find the station dark and empty. As Bashir roams the station, he finds his fellow DS9 officers, though the crew and civilians are all missing. Quark sits cowering behind his bar while the Lethean tears up his establishment. Bashir runs into Garak while looking for Odo. Bashir finds Dax, Kira, Odo and O'Brien arguing in the wardroom on how to stop the Lethean. Through all this, Bashir goes through an accelerating aging process.

In this opening act, the cloud of mystery successfully begs attention. Aside from the senior officers, why is there no one on the station? What is the Lethean up to? Why are all the station's systems down? Why does Bashir suddenly have grey hair? But when Menosky's concept is revealed--that this is all a very wild hallucination Bashir is having--the episode begins looking for what next to do with the concept, with only limited success.

Like "Emergence," TNG's inept attempt at highbrow symbolism (also written by Menosky), "Distant Voices" begins throwing a number of symbols at us, hoping that we genuinely care. The Lethean represents Bashir's inner struggle with elements of his past. If he loses this struggle, he will die in the coma. So the plot takes Bashir on a mission to get to Ops and repair the station. Symbolically, if he can repair the station and destroy the Lethean, he will survive the coma.

The story's apparent intention is to combine all these symbols in order to (1) show each DS9 character turned into a single personality trait, (2) set each scene with a creative, surreal visual and (3) milk Bashir's inner struggle for character development.

This all works to a point. The cast's personality manipulations are interesting, but hardly astonishing given the premise. The fresh visuals grab attention, even if they are a bit gimmicky. And this is really the only episode so far this season that spotlights Bashir. Unfortunately, this episode takes too long to get where it ends up, and where it ends up is relatively underwhelming. One problem is that the climax hangs on Bashir confronting himself (represented by the Lethean), which reveals character backstory we've already heard before. (That old pre-ganglionic fiber thing again, eh?)

Another, perhaps bigger problem with this story is that it presses the symbolism factor on us by trying to explain every symbol in some concrete manner. Explaining every piece of what the station stands for in Bashir's mind is an excessive step the writers take that doesn't give the audience enough credit. It's almost like they're condescending. Symbolism is a device that requires subtlety--and subtlety is definitely not present here. Consequently, the episode's symbol angle falls apart, just as it did in "Emergence." Maybe the problem is that Joe Menosky is so far out there on some of these ideas that no one is really ready for it, including the writing staff.

Hey, I like original ideas. And "Distant Voices" has an original concept with sporadically interesting moments. But there's just not enough meat here. I give it a 7.0 rating.

[SpinningChevron]

Oh, you make perfect sense. I know the feeling

Also, out of curiosity, why do you dislike people who don't wear seatbelts?

Because for the sake of saving 2 seconds time people are putting their own lives and the lives of other people in the car with them at risk by not wearing them. This may also sound odd but when watching a movie/tv show and I don't see somebody wearing a seatbelt it makes me angry even though its only a movie/tv show.

[nx01a]

'Distant Voices'... One of maybe two DS9 episodes I've never seen. Not in any real hurry to see it, either.

[marielabbott]

DS9 always did ships the best.

Yeah, I agree. I find the ships in SGA to be, generally, very painful and detrimental to the characters. I did not feel that way with DS9. The characters were strong in their own right, and pairing them off didn't diminish them. It actually created some interesting storylines.

I feel very, very anti ship today, since another one of my shows just introduced possibly the yuckiest ship I've ever encountered (even topping Dukat and Kai Winn), and it's really, really diminishing my enjoyment. It's so disappointing.

[Trek_Girl42]

Oh, you make perfect sense. I know the feeling

Also, out of curiosity, why do you dislike people who don't wear seatbelts?

People who don't wear seatbelts are frakking morons, and I make no apologies for saying that, I would say it to said people's face.

Yeah, I agree. I find the ships in SGA to be, generally, very painful and detrimental to the characters. I did not feel that way with DS9. The characters were strong in their own right, and pairing them off didn't diminish them. It actually created some interesting storylines.

I feel very, very anti ship today, since another one of my shows just introduced possibly the yuckiest ship I've ever encountered (even topping Dukat and Kai Winn), and it's really, really diminishing my enjoyment. It's so disappointing.

Ugh. It's like where everywhere DS9 goes right with ships, SGA goes wrong. I always tend to forget about the ships of DS9 when having this conversation, and I tend to blanket statement "I don't like ships except in BSD and PD". But I did really like the ships in DS9. The characters were fully realized BEFORE the ship came into the picture, they were strong characters with interesting stories for themselves so they never became defined by the relationships. That's kinda all I ask from a ship really, and if you have that I won't completely hate it. Unless it, you know, makes zero sense or screws up the show or just becomes awkward or.....I'll stop now.

What's the yucky ship?

[marielabbott]

Ugh. It's like where everywhere DS9 goes right with ships, SGA goes wrong. I always tend to forget about the ships of DS9 when having this conversation, and I tend to blanket statement "I don't like ships except in BSD and PD". But I did really like the ships in DS9. The characters were fully realized BEFORE the ship came into the picture, they were strong characters with interesting stories for themselves so they never became defined by the relationships. That's kinda all I ask from a ship really, and if you have that I won't completely hate it. Unless it, you know, makes zero sense or screws up the show or just becomes awkward or.....I'll stop now.

What's the yucky ship?

Yes, exactly, in DS9 the romances did not define the characters. And a less realized character was not paired with a more developed one in a ploy to make them more palatable to the audience. That's one of my most frequent complaints about ships. It's just subpar writing when that happens.

The super repugnant ship...spoilers for Supernatural (ep. 4.9).

Spoiler:

In the show, the ultimate bad guys are demons who are capable of possessing people and even the recently deceased, using them as vessels to interact with mortals. Well, there's this character, Ruby, a demon who the writers are trying to make out to be a "good" demon. I was never a fan of her character, but last night it was revealed that she's possessing a corpse and she's, uh, getting busy with one of the brothers. It's just vile to me on so many levels, and since she's apparently important in the story arc they're telling, I fear being treated to even more vileness. This is a ship that, imo, severely damages one of the lead characters of the show, and it was done in a way to kind of prop up another character. I'm just so disappointed, since most of my show squee has been coming from Supernatural for months now.

[Pitry]

Mister Defiant! If you continue this way I won't be able to impress people with my witty sarcasm anymore...

[the Fifth Race]

'Distant Voices'... One of maybe two DS9 episodes I've never seen. Not in any real hurry to see it, either.

LOL, considering that this was a dedicated Bashir, I liked it better than I expected when I re-watched it last night. Oh, I DID want to kill him with the turning thirty business--in a future where people live to be 140, it seemed SO stupid, and so quintessentially Julian somehow. But he became a lot more interesting when we got to see who inhabited his psyche, and how. Interesting to learn that he sees Sisko as authoritative - a role we don't always see on the series - and I sort of liked knowing that his aggressive nature is feminine, and he associates Kira with that sort of strength. Oh, how I wanted Quark to be his libido, and Jake his inner child...

I generally dislike "alone on the ship" type stories - "Omega Glory" on TOS, "Remember Me" on TNG, and now this - but there was certain appeal to seeing Bashir having to deal with his own annoying personality traits superimposed onto characters we love. I also generally dislike aging episodes, it looked phony when it happened to Kirk on TOS, it looked phony when it happened to Pulaski on TNG, so it came as no surprise when a guy my age was unconvincing as an old man. Somehow, though, I got sucked into the plot, even if it was a sort of New Age-y get-in-touch-with-your-fears theme.

I would say that Garak almost outshone Julian at the end, but it's the two of them together that makes either appealing for me. That whole first scene was rife with innuendo on Garak's part, and then Garak turns into Julian's Inner Beast...but I won't even try to analyze THAT or I might get into trouble. I wonder what it means that Bashir is his own worst enemy? Does he dislike himself for some hidden reason we don't know about yet? I hope we find out, and this doesn't all get dropped!

I would give Distant Voices a slightly better rating with a 7.5.

[the Fifth Race]

People who don't wear seatbelts are frakking morons, and I make no apologies for saying that, I would say it to said people's face.

Word!. Let's also include people who talk with hand held cell phones while driving and people who refuse to wear motorcycle helmets while riding. I equate some of this insanity to down-right laziness.

Yeah, I agree. I find the ships in SGA to be, generally, very painful and detrimental to the characters. I did not feel that way with DS9. The characters were strong in their own right, and pairing them off didn't diminish them. It actually created some interesting storylines.

Well said Lady Mariel. I have always dis-liked shipping, especially when done badly. DS9 did have a way about it when it came to "pairing them off". It's anohter well pointed out reason DS9 is superior.

Ugh. It's like where everywhere DS9 goes right with ships, SGA goes wrong. I always tend to forget about the ships of DS9 when having this conversation, and I tend to blanket statement "I don't like ships except in BSD and PD". But I did really like the ships in DS9. The characters were fully realized BEFORE the ship came into the picture, they were strong characters with interesting stories for themselves so they never became defined by the relationships. That's kinda all I ask from a ship really, and if you have that I won't completely hate it. Unless it, you know, makes zero sense or screws up the show or just becomes awkward or.....I'll stop now.

Again, well said and I couldn't agree more!.

[Krisz]

People who don't wear seatbelts are frakking morons, and I make no apologies for saying that, I would say it to said people's face.

My daughter and I were talking about seatbelt wearing today and our conversation was exactly the same!

She went out with a fireman at one point and she always remembers the story he told her and she tells this to all the idiots who say they won’t wear them. Whilst firemen see horrible things in their jobs there is always one that hits them more personally. For this guy it was a car accident with four young people. Two of them who weren’t wearing seatbelts died horribly, one thrown through the windshield from the back seat to land ten feet in front of the car. The other’s head shattered and body jammed and impaled in the rear window. The two wearing seatbelts survived. If people don’t want to wear seatbelts in mine or my kids’ cars we won’t give them a ride.

Ugh. It's like where everywhere DS9 goes right with ships, SGA goes wrong. I always tend to forget about the ships of DS9 when having this conversation, and I tend to blanket statement "I don't like ships except in BSD and PD". But I did really like the ships in DS9. The characters were fully realized BEFORE the ship came into the picture, they were strong characters with interesting stories for themselves so they never became defined by the relationships. That's kinda all I ask from a ship really, and if you have that I won't completely hate it. Unless it, you know, makes zero sense or screws up the show or just becomes awkward or.....I'll stop now.

What's the yucky ship?

Well said, I share your view about ships. Ship for ship’s sake, ugh!

Great review as always USS Defiant. I liked 'Distant Voices' on the whole as an interesting idea. I liked Bashir's character traits being played out by the other main characters. I agree Fifth Race that the hitting 30 bit was painfully overdone. Didn't bother me so couldn't see what the big deal was for him! Dread to think how he would deal with hitting 50 given the state he got himself into with hitting 30! Also a bit baffled as to how he could get up and walk with a broken hip, but I suppose that was part of his overcoming the challenges put in his way by the Lethian and a bit of mind over mind I guess!

[Starbase]

DS9 season III Epsiode Discussion
Episode #63 Distant Voices

This was another high-concept show from the mind of Joe Menosky. Here Bashir has to find someway to repair his brain, and at the same time keep a monster from destroying it.

Just like every Menosky script so far, this episode is very heavy in symbolism. It also gives Bashir some more character development. Siddig El Fadil gave a great performance in a challenging role. That being said, this would of been better suited to VOY.

[Pitry]

Just like every Menosky script so far, this episode is very heavy in symbolism. It also gives Bashir some more character development. Siddig El Fadil gave a great performance in a challenging role. That being said, this would of been better suited to VOY.

I have to agree with brother Defiant about over explaining the symbolism though. Look for example at the symbolism in SG1's the Changeling. It's also full of stuff like that, but no one's hammering it in, they're lettnig the viewers figure it out for themselves. Makes a better episode.

[Rac80]

They make car accidents worse.

You know its weird. When I drive I never forget my seatbelt but I have forgotten it while riding with my parents.

I always wore my seatbelt when my mom drove!!! I'd wear two with her behind the wheel if I could!

My pet peeve is people who don't put their children in car seats. how moronic can you be??? Better that the child should fuss a bit than be killed.
Another pet peeve is the texting-while-driving phenom. someone needs to slap those kids. I nearly got t-boned one day by a gal texting... I was mean followed her home and cussed her out. I told her parents what nearly happened and they weren't pleased with her either.

[nx01a]

You texter stalker you!
Well done.