Deep Space 9 Superior

[Starbase]

I did love the format of the episode though. It was brilliantly put together. I agree that voice-over monologues can end up being truely powerful episodes if done correctly (or crappers, like that one Doctor Who episode from the second season of the new series)

I tend to agree with this assessment. Even though I don't really agree with the stance the Dr. and Archer eventually took, I loved the format in which it was performed. The side story involving Dr. Phlox and a smitten Starfleet officer was interesting and entertaining. At this stage of the series (Season I) I do have a hard time buying into anything Archer says, IMO he just doesn't come across as believable. He does get much better in later seasons though.

[Krisz]

Thankyou Whitestar for those 'Tales from the Darkside' links. I will settle down to watch those when I have a little more time, they sound really interesting. I've got so many great recommendations to watch still and season 3 of DS9 awaits too!

I've been a little under the weather this last couple of weeks and struggled through my work days and then came home just to try and stop falling asleep! Only managed a few visits to GW and even then I fell asleep after only a short time. It was really weird, probably some flu bug or something! Hope to catch up on all the chat now I feel much better. I'm only tired now due to going on a cleaning spree today after not being able to do any for the last two weeks! I swear my house grows in size between each cleaning spree, or is me getting older!!!

[Starbase]

Krisz, I have here a several episodes of Tales From the Darkside for you to watch on youtube. Unfortunately, it doesn't have all the episodes, but the ones contained on youtube are the most popular. I believe its only a matter of time until more episodes are downloaded on youtube for everyone to watch.

Ah yes Tales Fron the Darkside, for anyone that has never seen this show, give it a looksie. There are some truly frightening and wonderful episodes that always have a twisted sense of humor to them.

[Starbase]

I've been a little under the weather this last couple of weeks and struggled through my work days and then came home just to try and stop falling asleep! Only managed a few visits to GW and even then I fell asleep after only a short time. It was really weird, probably some flu bug or something! Hope to catch up on all the chat now I feel much better. I'm only tired now due to going on a cleaning spree today after not being able to do any for the last two weeks! I swear my house grows in size between each cleaning spree, or is me getting older!!!

I'm glad you are feeling better Krisz, we have missed you around here.

I just did some house cleaning myself last week, I swear every time I start I tell myself 'why don't you just hire someone to do this for you'. God knows my somewhat lazy, but (lovely) wife won't lift a finger to clean anything. She knows I am some-what of a neat freak, so if she just leaves her mess behind, she knows it will drive me crazy and I will end up cleaning it. She's got me whipped and she knows it.

[Trek_Girl42]

Thankyou Whitestar for those 'Tales from the Darkside' links. I will settle down to watch those when I have a little more time, they sound really interesting. I've got so many great recommendations to watch still and season 3 of DS9 awaits too!

I've been a little under the weather this last couple of weeks and struggled through my work days and then came home just to try and stop falling asleep! Only managed a few visits to GW and even then I fell asleep after only a short time. It was really weird, probably some flu bug or something! Hope to catch up on all the chat now I feel much better. I'm only tired now due to going on a cleaning spree today after not being able to do any for the last two weeks! I swear my house grows in size between each cleaning spree, or is me getting older!!!

Glad to see you back- and that you're getting over whatever it was.

I'm glad you are feeling better Krisz, we have missed you around here.

I just did some house cleaning myself last week, I swear every time I start I tell myself 'why don't you just hire someone to do this for you'. God knows my somewhat lazy, but (lovely) wife won't lift a finger to clean anything. She knows I am some-what of a neat freak, so if she just leaves her mess behind, she knows it will drive me crazy and I will end up cleaning it. She's got me whipped and she knows it.

[Whitestar]

I'm glad you are feeling better Krisz, we have missed you around here.

Indeed. Welcome back Krisz!

I just did some house cleaning myself last week, I swear every time I start I tell myself 'why don't you just hire someone to do this for you'. God knows my somewhat lazy, but (lovely) wife won't lift a finger to clean anything. She knows I am some-what of a neat freak, so if she just leaves her mess behind, she knows it will drive me crazy and I will end up cleaning it. She's got me whipped and she knows it.

LOL. If you were single, brother Starbase, I have no doubt that many women will want to marry you!

[Krisz]

Thankyou everyone, I missed you all too!

Starbase, you and I are the same. Everyone knows I reach a point where....."she cannae take any more Captain"!! and I've got to clean the mess up that my dear family leave after them. My husband will do the washing up and laundry on a regular basis but anything else cleaning wise is left to me. As for the kids, they do help on occasion but that can be as frequently as a total eclipse of the sun!!!

[the Fifth Race]

Very nicely put! I did love that this episode had essentially no action- and it further proved that Trek doesn't need action to remain engaging. Phlox's voice-over was wonderful- I'd have liked a follow-up to this episode in a fifth season, with Phlox once again dictating a letter to Doctor Lucas throughout the episode to show how his perspectives on human beings have changed over the course of the series.

I really enjoyed the ENT episode Dear Doctor. I had some problems with both Archer and Phlox's attitude about non-interference, but it didn't take away from my enjoyment the episode that much at all. It was always nice learning more about Phlox and the Denobulans, considering we got very little back story throughout the entire series.

Actually, now that you mention it, there is a couple of things I'm interested in borrowing. I'm pondering if I should buy TNG's first two seasons considering that they were crap, but I'm also curious about its extra features and goodies. But first, I would like to see if they are worth purchasing. May I borrow them, brother Fifth Race?

I have both my DVD TNG collections out on loan right now brother Whitestar. I am expecting on them back in the next few weeks, hopefully.

Those first two seasons of TNG were Godawful (especially season I). Not only because of the crappy storylines and bad acting, but the convergence onto DVD came out very bad. The picture and sound quality are so bad it's almost unwatchable.

[the Fifth Race]

I've got so many great recommendations to watch still and season 3 of DS9 awaits too!

I have gotten so many great recommendations of great shows from a lot of fellow DS9 brethren over the years. And I hope I have turned on some of you to shows that you would have not watched otherwise.

DS9's season III is fantastic. I am just about done re-watching season II myself to follow along with brother Defiant's episode discussion. I am looking forward to moving onto to season III.

I've been a little under the weather this last couple of weeks and struggled through my work days and then came home just to try and stop falling asleep! Only managed a few visits to GW and even then I fell asleep after only a short time. It was really weird, probably some flu bug or something!

I'm sorry you haven't been feeling well Kris, I'm glad you are feeling better now. It is always great to see you.

[gopher65]

Those first two seasons of TNG were Godawful (especially season I). Not only because of the crappy storylines and bad acting, but the convergence onto DVD came out very bad. The picture and sound quality are so bad it's almost unwatchable.

You know, I don't remember this the first time around, but when I watch the reruns on TV now the first 2 seasons (especially the first one) has just horrible picture and sound quality. I wonder if the station I watched it on used the DVDs as their souce?

[Whitestar]

I really enjoyed the ENT episode Dear Doctor. I had some problems with both Archer and Phlox's attitude about non-interference, but it didn't take away from my enjoyment the episode that much at all. It was always nice learning more about Phlox and the Denobulans, considering we got very little back story throughout the entire series.

This episode was definitely controversial and certainly stepped on some toes. Up until this episode, I had a lot of respect for Phlox, but after that, I condemn him for what he did, or rather for what he DIDN'T do. Archer should have told him to step off and have just given the Denobulans the serum. Well, at this point it doesn't matter because I don't consider ENT part of established Trek history.

I have both my DVD TNG collections out on loan right now brother Whitestar. I am expecting on them back in the next few weeks, hopefully.

Those first two seasons of TNG were Godawful (especially season I). Not only because of the crappy storylines and bad acting, but the convergence onto DVD came out very bad. The picture and sound quality are so bad it's almost unwatchable.

Indeed. The first two seasons were complete junk. Till this day, I'm stunned that the show wasn't cancelled after the first season, let alone the second. You can actually tell that all the characters on TNG from the first two seasons were completely different than seasons 3 thru 7. For instance, Picard came off as an unlikeable stiff and child-hating grouch. Riker was not particularly bright and was more of a dumb jock. Worf was even more stupid than Riker, who had the brain the size of a peanut, especially when the crew first encountered Q and Worf almost blew a hole in the viewscreen with his phaser! Troi initially was a complete empath, not to mention a cheerleader, and was constantly stating the obvious because the writers felt we were too stupid to comprehend what was transpiring on the screen.

In regards to the first two seasons quality being a poor DVD transfer, I heard about that from many fans, stating that it had a major grainy look to it. Why did it come out that way? Also, are there any extra features or goodies on the first two seasons of TNG?

[Krisz]

As a matter of fact, the series is a direct continuation that takes place 15 years after the events of the film. Starman returns to Earth and replicates the body of a dead photojournalist named Paul Forrester (played by Robert Hays of the Airplane movies fame) to spend time with his son, Scott Hayden while at the same time avoiding a government agent who is hot on their trail as Starman helps his son search for his mother, Jenny Hayden. The show had a premise that was a combination of The Fugitive and The Incredible Hulk, that is, moving from place to place and helping people in need of assistance, while at the same time, staying one ahead of a determined government agent who is hot on their trail. The show was quite popular and a worthy sequel to the classic film, despite being cancelled after only one season, and managed to tie up some loose ends. The Sci-Fi Channel bought the rights and reaired all the episodes during its first year on the air. Of course, now with Tivo, it is most likely available.

For more information, check out the following link right here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starman_%28TV_series%29

Thanks for this, I hope I can find the show and take a look. Obviously didn't have any takers in the overseas market which is a shame.

My ex-girlfriend has been telling me to see it for some time, so I guess I'll order it on DVD because I'm a fan of both Dennis Quad and Louis Gossett Jr.

You won't regret it as it's a really engaging film, up there with my all time favourites.

That show sounds remarkably similar to Brimstone, which starred Peter Horton (of Thirtysomething fame). The story initially takes place in 1983 where Ezekiel "Zeke" Stone (played by Peter Horton) was a New York City Police detective whose wife was raped. He tracked down and arrested the offender, named Gilbert Jax, who was cleared of the charges. Furious, Stone then murdered Jax in cold blood. Two months later, Stone was killed in an unrelated event and went to Hell for Jax's death. The Devil explains in the pilot episode that this was because he took pleasure in the killing, which prevented it from being justice. He died one of the most decorated cops in NYC history. Fifteen years later, a breakout from Hell occurs, and 113 spirits escape. Because the Devil (played to much fan acclaim by John Glover) is powerless on Earth, he makes a deal with Stone: Stone will be returned to Earth to track down these 113 escapees, and if he can return all 113 to Hell (before one of them gets him) he will earn a second chance at life on Earth, and therefore, Heaven. The Devil seems to hinder Stone's work almost as much as he helps it, however, giving some information but withholding crucial facts, or giving only cryptic clues to where Stone will find the next of the escapees, apparently delighting in watching him become more irritable with his interference. Stone wears the name and pictographs of these souls as tattoos over his body; as each soul is sent back, his or her corresponding tattoo burns itself off.

The series was short-lived and like most good shows was cancelled before its time, nonetheless, it has a huge following and is currently airing on the Chiller network.

I remember that, a good show.

The Maquis are a fantastic idea for Star Trek - a group that doesn't put abstract ideals above the lives of citizens, which does not believe that the good of the many outweighs the good of the one. They have values! They have resources and initiative! Considering how inconsistent the Prime Directive has been on recent Trek - I'm not even sure what it stands for anymore - it's refreshing to see a group of citizens which is not afraid to defend what they've fought for.

Totally agree! You make an interesting observation about the Prime Directive there, what is the Federation doing in the case of the colonists? Interfering, that’s what! I’m with you there, I’m not sure about what the Prime Directive is for anymore either, other than to make some humans feel smug and superior!! I’m glad DS9 took this and shook it up a bit.

Is a holocaust permissible under an ideology of tolerance for others' values? I don't think so, and neither do the Maquis.

That certainly puts it in a nutshell, brilliantly put! Ties in with this discussion about the Prime Directive:

The Prime Directive is basically one big mess. It's interesting how the Federation can't interfere with less advanced species, but has no problem sticking their nose into the business of the equally or higher advanced species. That's when most excuses are made for diverting from it seem to occur. It kinda gives the impression that the federation wants to be the big guy on the playground. You're okay, so long as you're not a competetor. The examples outlined in the article are perfect demonstartions of this. In future Trek this needs to be adressed. A plotline involving the debated amendment of the prime directive could provide some excellent story oppertunities- the captains of ships begin to face their own issues of what they can and can't do out there, etc.

I was musing as well on the question of interference in the affairs of a lesser developed species mentioned in the ENT episode 'Dear Doctor' and wondered why this blanket 'non interference' policy was adopted.

Eventually with the spread of the more advanced species' there would be more and more cases of contact by these lesser developed societies with the more advanced ones. Some species would not be as helpful in the case of first contact as the Federation would be and seek to change them or get rid of them for whatever reason. Wouldn't it make sense to have a policy of 'necessary intervention' rather than the haphazard, subjective interpretion this policy encourages in individual Starfleet personnel. This would help bring such lesser developed species up to a level of understanding that would allow them to understand other advanced races and avoid the shocking disruption that such contact may cause.

Glad to hear you guys know when Torchwood is starting- CBC isn't even going to unveil their fall schedule until October. So we have no idea what date it'll start. I wish they'd get their act together.

According to the Vancouver Sun’s TV Guide, Torchwood premiers on CBC on October 5th. I just happened to read that today!

And no, we don't get the BBC in Canada- there is a BBC Canada channel but I suspect it's quite pricy so we don't subscribe to it. However we luck out on the fact that British programming is very popular over here, so CBC airs (and in some cases actually funds- like Doctor Who and Torchwood) some of these shows. CBC actually shows almost no American programming, but a very decent chuck of what they air is British.

Of course every other channel here is pretty much dominated by American content.

There is a lot of American programming in the UK as well. From what the programming was like on the BBC when I left the UK two years ago you are not missing anything. They show many of the more popular and better BBC shows here on Canadian TV anyway. I tended to prefer American shows to British ones generally.

Poor Vancouver. It always doubles for everything else and never gets to appear as itself. Cause really, who would want to see a movie that's supposed to be set in Vancouver.

LOL! I have actually seen some shows and a couple of movies where Vancouver stars as itself. Only yesterday my husband stopped to look at the show I was watching and thought the city shown in the opening credits was Toronto!! The one time it was actually Vancouver he thought it was another city, I couldn’t believe he couldn’t recognise the place he lives near to!!!! Maybe we are all conditioned to only see Vancouver now as another city on the screen LOL!

I love Vancouver and all of British Columbia. I lived just outside of Victoria for almost a year in 1994 and I also spent a few months living in Vancouver because of a job. I really enjoyed my time in both area's. The people reminded me of my home town San Francisco, anotherwords, they are courteous, helpful and very friendly, which made being away from home much easier. I alway's told myself I would love to have a summer home somewhere in the area where I lived before.

My first visit to North America from the UK was to San Francisco and Vancouver four years ago. I had always wanted to visit San Francisco and to actually walk across the Golden Gate Bridge as one of the things I wanted to do before you die sort of thing! It was a fantastic experience and I absolutely loved everything about San Francisco. You are quite right in what you say about the people in San Francisco, they are indeed welcoming and friendly. Speaking of people, is the ‘Bush Man’ still around on Fisherman’s Wharf?! He was this guy that sat on the edge of the sidewalk holding up a thick branch of leaves to hide behind, then he shouted ‘boo’ to people periodically scaring the wits out of them as they only thought it was a shrub at the side of the road!!! We also had an interesting experience watching the Independence Day celebrations in Golden Gate Park, got a few bemused looks from some people who heard our British accents LOL!!!!

Since we were visiting San Francisco we thought we would go to Vancouver as well to visit my husband’s uncle and cousins who live there and on Vancouver Island (not because of Stargate strangely enough!) I could never have expected to fall in love with the place like I did and just knew that was the place I wanted to live and felt that there were more opportunities for my kids here than in the overcrowded UK! We applied for permanent residency in Canada soon after we got back to the UK and the rest is history!!!

[Trek_Girl42]

According to the Vancouver Sun’s TV Guide, Torchwood premiers on CBC on October 5th. I just happened to read that today!

Thanks! Ooh, airing on Fridays will be perfect. You wouldn't happen to know the timeslot?

There is a lot of American programming in the UK as well. From what the programming was like on the BBC when I left the UK two years ago you are not missing anything. They show many of the more popular and better BBC shows here on Canadian TV anyway. I tended to prefer American shows to British ones generally.



LOL! I have actually seen some shows and a couple of movies where Vancouver stars as itself. Only yesterday my husband stopped to look at the show I was watching and thought the city shown in the opening credits was Toronto!! The one time it was actually Vancouver he thought it was another city, I couldn’t believe he couldn’t recognise the place he lives near to!!!! Maybe we are all conditioned to only see Vancouver now as another city on the screen LOL!



My first visit to North America from the UK was to San Francisco and Vancouver four years ago. I had always wanted to visit San Francisco and to actually walk across the Golden Gate Bridge as one of the things I wanted to do before you die sort of thing! It was a fantastic experience and I absolutely loved everything about San Francisco. You are quite right in what you say about the people in San Francisco, they are indeed welcoming and friendly. Speaking of people, is the ‘Bush Man’ still around on Fisherman’s Wharf?! He was this guy that sat on the edge of the sidewalk holding up a thick branch of leaves to hide behind, then he shouted ‘boo’ to people periodically scaring the wits out of them as they only thought it was a shrub at the side of the road!!! We also had an interesting experience watching the Independence Day celebrations in Golden Gate Park, got a few bemused looks from some people who heard our British accents LOL!!!!

Since we were visiting San Francisco we thought we would go to Vancouver as well to visit my husband’s uncle and cousins who live there and on Vancouver Island (not because of Stargate strangely enough!) I could never have expected to fall in love with the place like I did and just knew that was the place I wanted to live and felt that there were more opportunities for my kids here than in the overcrowded UK! We applied for permanent residency in Canada soon after we got back to the UK and the rest is history!!!

I know what you mean- my parents chose B.C. over England as well. B.C. is just such a wonderful place to grow up- though I'd really like to spend some time in the U.K. eventually, since I have so much family over there, but I think B.C. will always be my home.

San Francisco is definitely another must-see destination on my list- my family drove down there, but I'm not a fan of extensive car trips so I didn't go. They still talk about how wonderful it was.

[Starbase]

Totally agree! You make an interesting observation about the Prime Directive there, what is the Federation doing in the case of the colonists? Interfering, that’s what! I’m with you there, I’m not sure about what the Prime Directive is for anymore either, other than to make some humans feel smug and superior!! I’m glad DS9 took this and shook it up a bit.

There was a very fine line between what the Maquis did as far as it being considered justified or as it being considered murder. Personally I do not look at what the Maquis did as being necessarily justified. I can see it through Sisko's eyes, where the greater good far out weighs the needs for the few. By not squashing the Maquis the Federation left itself wide open for future uprisings. As soon as the Maquis went on the offensive and started bombing Cardassian civilians to try and keep land that was never really theres to begin with is IMO unacceptable. That all being said, I can still sympathize with the Maquis and there will to survive. But there stubborness to not negotiate and accept an alternative, which Starfleet offered, doomed them for extinction.

Eventually with the spread of the more advanced species' there would be more and more cases of contact by these lesser developed societies with the more advanced ones. Some species would not be as helpful in the case of first contact as the Federation would be and seek to change them or get rid of them for whatever reason. Wouldn't it make sense to have a policy of 'necessary intervention' rather than the haphazard, subjective interpretion this policy encourages in individual Starfleet personnel. This would help bring such lesser developed species up to a level of understanding that would allow them to understand other advanced races and avoid the shocking disruption that such contact may cause.

I wholeheartedly agree with a policy of "necessary intervention" that is selective instead of broad sweeping. Great idea Kris.

Starfleet took the lazy way out by making the Prime Directive all encompassing. With some time and work, Starfleet could have brought some lesser advanced societies up to speed without causing irrepriable harm while gaining trusted allies. Again this policy could be selective, meaning that a society that is deemed to primitive, would be left alone.

My first visit to North America from the UK was to San Francisco and Vancouver four years ago. I had always wanted to visit San Francisco and to actually walk across the Golden Gate Bridge as one of the things I wanted to do before you die sort of thing! It was a fantastic experience and I absolutely loved everything about San Francisco. You are quite right in what you say about the people in San Francisco, they are indeed welcoming and friendly. Speaking of people, is the ‘Bush Man’ still around on Fisherman’s Wharf?! He was this guy that sat on the edge of the sidewalk holding up a thick branch of leaves to hide behind, then he shouted ‘boo’ to people periodically scaring the wits out of them as they only thought it was a shrub at the side of the road!!! We also had an interesting experience watching the Independence Day celebrations in Golden Gate Park, got a few bemused looks from some people who heard our British accents LOL!!!!

The Golden Gate Bridge, which I drive across about a dozen times a week is something to behold. To walk across it is simply nirvana, the scenary speaks for itself. Brother Fifth Race's family business is on Fishermans Wharf right next to where that pesky bushman hides to scare the crap out of unsuspecting tourists. I believe he is still there, he has been doing it since the 1970's. An Independence Day celebration in Golden Gate Park is like a ride in fantasy land.

[Krisz]

Thanks! Ooh, airing on Fridays will be perfect. You wouldn't happen to know the timeslot?

I know what you mean- my parents chose B.C. over England as well. B.C. is just such a wonderful place to grow up- though I'd really like to spend some time in the U.K. eventually, since I have so much family over there, but I think B.C. will always be my home.

San Francisco is definitely another must-see destination on my list- my family drove down there, but I'm not a fan of extensive car trips so I didn't go. They still talk about how wonderful it was.

It was only a lisiting of upcoming shows in the fall. It didn't mention the time slot unfortunately.

I don't know how you pass up a chance to go to San Francisco just because of a little car journey!!: That would have been preferable to the 10 hr flight, followed by 3 hours in the queue in Customs and Immigration which was not air conditioned at the height of summer, then 3 days of really bad jet lag!! It was all worth it though!!

Then again, if your family is like mine and seem to drive forever like the Terminator without a break I can understand if you didn't go for this reason. I had that with my Dad when we used to go to Hungary in the summer when I was a kid. It was a 1000 mile journey from Budapest to Calais in France and he did it in 24hrs once, changing over driving with my mother when he needed a rest. It was bad, only stopping for the bathroom breaks, food and fuel!

Agree with you there about BC. My son for instance has done stuff he would never have had the chance to do had we stayed in the UK. My daughter didn't come out with us initially, she decided to stay in the UK. After 18 months when she saw how much we and her brother loved it here she made up her mind to finally come and live here too five months ago. She hasn't looked back since, has a job she enjoys and a crazy Canadian boyfriend already!! There are the moments when we all miss family and friends we left behind but it seems we have made the right decision. The UK is only a 1hr drive, a 3hr wait at the airport, 9hr 40 min flight and 3 days of bad jet lag away after all!!!