Deep Space 9 Superior

[bcfc]

Hate to be a little black coud is misery, but I'd worry about that.....most bootlegs tend to be "multi-region imports".

Have to wait and see i suppose. The seller does offer a refund anyway if im not happy so.

[the Fifth Race]

I never watched this star trek series when it first come out, only being young at the time. But i watched all the repeats on sky one about a couple of years ago and really got into it.

Thats why ive just bought all season 1-7 for a great deal of 60 pounds off ebay.

Cant wait.

That is a great deal bcfc, I know a few people that bought multi region knock-off's of DS9 or other Trek series and they never got burned, kind of makes me feel like I sucker considering that I bought the original box sets for around $50 each season. I would have payed double if I had to.

It is awesome getting a whole series like that so you can follow it from beginning to end at your own pace, and IMHO you cannot invest your time any better in watching such a great series. Enjoy and welcome to the DS9 thread bcfc, great to have you on board.

[Starbase]

Rocks and Shoals was yet again, another great episode! And I really liked Kira's role in it as well, how she's judgeing herself as a collaberator, bound to make for some more great material over the next few eps.

And yay for another cliffhanger ending!

Rocks and Shoals is truly brilliant in a lot of ways. Besides being very entertaining, it shows again why DS9 is the superior Trek series, from the B-stroyline (Kira) to another morale dilema that Sisko must face at a time when he has no choice but to abandon the ideals of Stafleet so he can save his crew and his own azz.

It is surprising how much the B-story accomplishes in so little screen time. Many of Kira's thoughts are conveyed through visuals that require no dialog. Michael Vejar's direction of these sequences is exemplary. A montage in which Kira wakes and begins her shift is done twice, once before the hanging and once afterward. The message is clear, Kira can not sit idly by anymore. She can no longer live day to day on Terok Nor remaining silent and powerless. She decides she must fight back.

This notion is inspiring and very appropriate given Kira's past. Her dialog with Odo about the impossibility of her remaining "neutral" is about as believable as anything Kira has ever said (brilliant!), and it's a key reason why these last two episodes have been so riveting. These characters are caught up in a really big mess, and how they react to it returns us to the basics of their personas. I just cannot say enough about Kira in this classic!.

[the Fifth Race]

Is it true that the Jem-Hadar don't eat? I could have sworn I heard that in the ep. They are kind of like the Brutes from Halo 2.

It's true, not only do the Jem'Hadar not eat or drink, they do not need to rest or sleep, they are hatched in maturation chambers (like the Borg) and only take about a month to reach full maturity. They are also born addicted to Ketra'Cel White, which is actually a stroke of genius because that is one of the main ways the Founders can control them.

The episode that I'm looking forward too is "Sacrifice of Angels". The battle scene looks great! Do our group of heroes retake DS9 in that ep?

I can't give away the spoilers that happen in the episode Sacrifice of Angels. It is to close to being aired and its worth not knowing because it is such a great and powerful episode!. After you see it my friend, then we will discuss it.

[the Fifth Race]

Rocks and Shoals is truly brilliant in a lot of ways. Besides being very entertaining, it shows again why DS9 is the superior Trek series, from the B-storyline (Kira) to another morale dilema that Sisko must face at a time when he has no choice but to abandon the ideals of Stafleet so he can save his crew and his own azz.

The plot is rudimentary, of course, and that's the way it should be. Sure, it's a tad convenient for the story that Sisko's ship happens to crash on the same planet and in the same vicinity of where another Jem'Hadar fighter went down just two days before, but no matter. This episode is about the situation that ensues.

The moral dilemma is nicely addressed by the story, but even better is a scene that addresses the Jem'Hadar loyalty (where Sisko informs Jem'Hadar squadron commander Remata'Klan), that Keevan has sold them out, that the Jem'Hadar are locked in a crossfire with nowhere to go. Sisko asks Remata'Klan to surrender while he can.

Within Remata'Klan's choice is where the story becomes a fully realized tragedy, and an exceptional piece of work. Remata'Klan is no fool. He's merely incapable of violating his Dominion ethics. He refuses surrender because it's not what his Vorta ordered. And if his Vorta wants Remata'Klan and his unit to die, then they die. Again, it's tragic but it is also so very brilliantly written.

It is surprising how much the B-story accomplishes in so little screen time. Many of Kira's thoughts are conveyed through visuals that require no dialog. Michael Vejar's direction of these sequences is exemplary. A montage in which Kira wakes and begins her shift is done twice, once before the hanging and once afterward. The message is clear, Kira can not sit idly by anymore. She can no longer live day to day on Terok Nor remaining silent and powerless. She decides she must fight back.

This notion is inspiring and very appropriate given Kira's past. Her dialog with Odo about the impossibility of her remaining "neutral" is about as believable as anything Kira has ever said (brilliant!), and it's a key reason why these last two episodes have been so riveting. These characters are caught up in a really big mess, and how they react to it returns us to the basics of their personas. I just cannot say enough about Kira in this classic!.

Very well said brother Base!, Kira just commands the scene whenever she is a part of it. And the way the episode is written, using visuals sequences with Kira is powerful and of the highest quality.

[Starbase]

The plot is rudimentary, of course, and that's the way it should be. Sure, it's a tad convenient for the story that Sisko's ship happens to crash on the same planet and in the same vicinity of where another Jem'Hadar fighter went down just two days before, but no matter. This episode is about the situation that ensues.

The moral dilemma is nicely addressed by the story, but even better is a scene that addresses the Jem'Hadar loyalty (where Sisko informs Jem'Hadar squadron commander Remata'Klan), that Keevan has sold them out, that the Jem'Hadar are locked in a crossfire with nowhere to go. Sisko asks Remata'Klan to surrender while he can.

Within Remata'Klan's choice is where the story becomes a fully realized tragedy, and an exceptional piece of work. Remata'Klan is no fool. He's merely incapable of violating his Dominion ethics. He refuses surrender because it's not what his Vorta ordered. And if his Vorta wants Remata'Klan and his unit to die, then they die. Again, it's tragic but it is also so brilliantly written.

What's remarkable about this episode is that it almost paints the Jem'Hadar as victims. Ronald D Moore's probing teleplay is so fair to their situation and even-handed in its approach that we actually feel sympathy for Remata'Klan and his men. They may be fierce, merciless, efficient soldiers, but they're that way because the Dominion manufactured them that way. They have a rigid obedience code that prohibits them from defying the higher power of the Dominion. They believe in the Dominion's "order of things." The episode's most telling line comes when Sisko asks Remata'Klan if he really wants to die for "the order of things." Remata'Klan's reply: "It is not my life to give up, Captain ... and it never was."

It's quite a task to turn a terrible enemy into believably sympathetic characters, but "Rocks and Shoals" does it wonderfully, making Remata'Klan the most respectable and dimensional Jem'Hadar character yet created. Phil Morris' compelling rendition is one of a dedicated man not simply unwilling to go against higher forces, but incapable of doing so. He's the tragedy's central figure--he knows he has been betrayed by his Dominion superior, but it's not relevant. He follows his orders to the letter, because that's what the nature of his existence demands.

[Dark Falcon]

It's true, not only do the Jem'Hadar not eat or drink, they do not need to rest or sleep, they are hatched in maturation chambers (like the Borg) and only take about a month to reach full maturity. They are also born addicted to Ketra'Cel White, which is actually a stroke of genius because that is one of the main ways the Founders can control them.

I can't give away the spoilers that happen in the episode Sacrifice of Angels. It is to close to being aired and its worth not knowing because it is such a great and powerful episode!. After you see it my friend, then we will discuss it.

Thanks!

The fact that the Jem-Hadar do not eat or sleep makes them similar to
the Space Marines from the best selling boardgame Warhammer 40K.

My lips are sealed until "Sacrifice of Angels" airs on Spike next Tuesday!

[kmiller1610]

Does anybody else feel DS9 was the most superior and best written show of all the Star Trek genre's?.

I agree with this statement, but if you were to change the statement to something like "Is the DS9 the best Star Trek television show" I would say that it's more of a spinoff of Star Trek than Star Trek, as it was originally conceived.

Why?

No Stars...

No Trek....

The entire story takes place within a defined Federation / Dominion universe and focuses on the concerns of Bajor, the Dominion, the Cardassians and the Federation. This makes for a really excellent show which is focused, deep and compelling.

But in many ways, Stargate SG-1 is closer to Star Trek than DS-9 because of the wonder of going new places, meeting new races, encountering new technologies and meeting ourselves by going where no man has gone before, which is really the heart of Star Trek. This theme is not entirely absent from DS-9, but it is not the focus.

My apologies to my host, but once in a while, I just have to rock the boat a bit......

[Starbase]

I agree with this statement, but if you were to change the statement to something like "Is the DS9 the best Star Trek television show" I would say that it's more of a spinoff of Star Trek than Star Trek, as it was originally conceived.

Personally I consider DS9 the best damn scifi show ever, whether the label Star Trek is attached or not.

The series was originally concieved to be more like TOS and TNG with the discovery of the wormhole to the Gamma quadrant. But the overwehlming popularity of the Jem'Hadar coupled with Ronald D. Moore joining DS9 changed everything about the direction of the show. The Dominion war arc involving the 4 big Alpha quadrant races (Humans, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians) was risky in the beginning, but by the end of the series it turned out to be the best stroke of genius the Trek franchise has ever seen!. I can't imagine DS9 being half as good if they did go the way of TOS and TNG. I am glad that Ira Steven Behr, Rick Berman and Ronald D. Moore, among others, stuck to there guns when Roddenberry himself tried to change DS9 half way through its run.

But in many ways, Stargate SG-1 is closer to Star Trek than DS-9 because of the wonder of going new places, meeting new races, encountering new technologies and meeting ourselves by going where no man has gone before, which is really the heart of Star Trek. This theme is not entirely absent from DS-9, but it is not the focus.

I do agree that Stargate is similar to Star Trek for the above mentioned reasons kmiller gives. For that reason and the fact that SG has very good writing and great characters, makes SG a very close second to DS9 as my second alltime favorite scifi show.

Again, the chance that was taken with DS9 by not following Roddenberry's formula for previous Trek series turned out to be brilliant in hindsight. The whole Dominion war storyline was beautiful to watch unfold over season 3 - 7. Sometimes straying and taking a leap of faith stance from the pre-set norm turns out to be genius, and DS9 is the perfect example.

[kmiller1610]

DS9 is far more of a contemporary drama than any of the other Trek series. The characters are complex, conflicted, detailed. The situations build off each other and resonate. If you go back and watch TOS, it seems very broad, in many ways.

But it's also a little like going over the rainbow to the land of Oz. It's an escape from reality to a land where good and evil are more defined and clear and there are noble things to do and wondeful places to go to. Your friends are true. Your enemies wear black hats.

There is a place for both of course. But they are different.

[Starbase]

DS9 is far more of a contemporary drama than any of the other Trek series. The characters are complex, conflicted, detailed. The situations build off each other and resonate. If you go back and watch TOS, it seems very broad, in many ways.

Agreed, especially about the characters.

But it's also a little like going over the rainbow to the land of Oz. It's an escape from reality to a land where good and evil are more defined and clear and there are noble things to do and wondeful places to go to. Your friends are true. Your enemies wear black hats.

Isn't most if not all scifi about escaping to another land, world, dimension ...etc... even if for only an hour. IMHO, that is why scifi is as popular as it is. People want escapism and to be entertained while watching scifi.

I was hooked from a very young age. I used to watch Lost In Space, original BSG, Alien Nation, Night Gallery, Night Stalker among a few other as kid and teenager, I also enjoyed re-runs Twilight Zone and TOS. Then came the mothership herself, TNG in the late 80's. Then of course came a bevy of mediocre to very good scifi TV shows such as B5, Andromeda, Stargate, Slider, X-Files, DS9, Voyager, Farscape, The 4400, Firefly, Atlantis ...etc...

There is a place for both of course. But they are different.

Agreed, but in DS9's case, different = better.

[Trek_Girl42]

Isn't most if not all scifi about escaping to another land, world, dimension ...etc... even if for only an hour. IMHO, that is why scifi is as popular as it is. People want escapism and to be entertained while watching scifi.

I was hooked from a very young age. I used to watch Lost In Space, original BSG, Alien Nation, Night Gallery, Night Stalker among a few other as kid and teenager, I also enjoyed re-runs Twilight Zone and TOS. Then came the mothership herself, TNG in the late 80's. Then of course came a bevy of mediocre to very good scifi TV shows such as B5, Andromeda, Stargate, Slider, X-Files, DS9, Voyager, Farscape, The 4400, Firefly, Atlantis ...etc...

I agree- the escapism is a huge draw factor. And just the fact that it's something different from what you see everyday (or something very similar, just disguised in a creative way). I loved sci-fi movies (Star Wars counts as plural! ) as a kid, Star Wars was an absolute marvel when I saw it re-released at the theater, and then the many many times since on VHS. Sadly never realised that there was good sci-fi tv until a few years ago- stumbled on the BSG mini by complete fluke. DS9 has definitly become one of the absolute favourites since then.


And regarding today's ep- couldn't believe how stupid Odo got! I was surprised Kira didn't hit him over that.

Sadly there's no DS9 next week. It's all Voyager all week long.

[Dark Falcon]

Agreed, especially about the characters.

Isn't most if not all scifi about escaping to another land, world, dimension ...etc... even if for only an hour. IMHO, that is why scifi is as popular as it is. People want escapism and to be entertained while watching scifi.

I was hooked from a very young age. I used to watch Lost In Space, original BSG, Alien Nation, Night Gallery, Night Stalker among a few other as kid and teenager, I also enjoyed re-runs Twilight Zone and TOS. Then came the mothership herself, TNG in the late 80's. Then of course came a bevy of mediocre to very good scifi TV shows such as B5, Andromeda, Stargate, Slider, X-Files, DS9, Voyager, Farscape, The 4400, Firefly, Atlantis ...etc...

Agreed, but in DS9's case, different = better.

Ah, so that's why Sci fi is so addictive: It's about escaping to a far away, enjoyable place. Good points!

The sci fi shows are also good and enjoyable because they have intriguing storylines, awesome action, lovable characters (such as Quark ), and even some special effects to gaze at in amazement.

[Lieutenant Colonel Davis]

Sadly there's no DS9 next week. It's all Voyager all week long.

And that's a bad thing, why????

[USS Defiant]

And that's a bad thing, why????

Because Voyager is a sappy, boring piece of work that didn't get half way decent until 7 of 9 joined the show.

I am sorry to any Voyager fans out there, but IMO Voyager is quite lame compared to TNG, DS9 and even ENT. I only rank it as barely better than TOS.