Deep Space 9 Superior

[Giantevilhead]

While it's true, the Jem'Hadar are genetically engineered to revere the Founders as gods. However, this engineering was not as flawless with the Jem'Hadar as it was with the Vorta, which is why it was necessary to make the Jem'Hadar dependent on the Ketra'Cel White (which provides them there nourishment, and a missing enzyme, which would kill a Jem'Hadar in a torturous way within days if withheld).

You also have to remember that the Dominion openly worried about the Jem'Hadar after the incident on Vandros IV - where a rogue faction of Jem'Hadar seized an Iconian Gateway which they planned to use to launch a coup d'état of the Dominion. There were also the new "Alpha Quadrant" Jem'Hadar (bred in AQ) that not only displayed angst against the Founders, but also against there fellow Gamma Quadrant Jem'Hadar brethren. I also took into consideration that Ronald D Moore talked about potential Season 8 DS9 story-lines at a Trek convention (circa 2000) - which included a storyline of Jem'Hadar refusing to be recalled, and then strike out on there own while building there own Ketra'Cal White and cloning facilities. They would be given there own planet to start a colony (under a peaceful guise), and eventually grow to become a Federation member.

Yet it has been shown that the Founders underestimated the Jem'Hadar's loyalty. In that very episode you mentioned, Weyoun's Jem'Hadar commander not only knew about the rogue Jem'Hadar but admitted that the Jem'Hadar would remain loyal to the Founders even without the White. He even killed Weyoun for doubting his loyalty.

I'm not arguing the strength of the Dominion (especially on the Gamma Quadrant side). I have always maintained that of the races that threatened the Federation and Alpha Quadrant - the Dominion were the biggest threat (more so than even the Borg or Species 8472). The potential to breed unlimited Jem'Hadar soldiers and Starships trumps everything -- IMHO the Federation alliance we saw at the end of DS9 (especially when the Cardassians turned against the Jem'Hadar and joined the alliance) was the pinnacle of combined power from the Trek universe.

Too bad the Federation alliance has no power in the Gamma Quadrant, which is what they would need to affect change in the Dominion.

[the Fifth Race]

The O'Brien/Bashir interaction we get in Armageddon Game is great, redefining the two characters as the most verbally interesting pair on the series (or maybe a close second behind Garak/Bashir) Bashir's backstory comes off particularly believable this time around, supplying the character with a depth beyond what had been explored up until that point in the series. O'Brien's dialog about family life is also adeptly written.

Basically, Armageddon Game works because it puts two actors in a room, gives them some believable things to say, and the performances deliver. Keiko's investigation that leads her to suspect the forgery is somewhat hokey and a little hard to swallow, but no matter; the surprisingly clever and understated action finale wraps things up nicely.

[CMWriter]

Love, love, love, love, LOVE this series. It is, without a shadow of a doubt, my favourite in the 'Trek franchise. Heck, it might be my favourite sci-fi show of all time.. right up there with The X-Files and Fringe, and of course the other Star Treks.

I liked that there were actually consequences to peoples' actions. Like, they couldn't, say, go and mess with a planet and then just leave for the next one. They were stuck on the station, so everything would eventually come back to them. Really great writing, great acting, just great all around for me. Odo's my favourite character of all; Auberjonois is a magnificent actor!

I could never get tired of DS9. I'm a Niner, all the way!
(Oh, and Odo/Kira is the best couple ever!)

[Starbase]

Spoiler:

Love, love, love, love, LOVE this series. It is, without a shadow of a doubt, my favourite in the 'Trek franchise. Heck, it might be my favourite sci-fi show of all time.. right up there with The X-Files and Fringe, and of course the other Star Treks.

I liked that there were actually consequences to peoples' actions. Like, they couldn't, say, go and mess with a planet and then just leave for the next one. They were stuck on the station, so everything would eventually come back to them. Really great writing, great acting, just great all around for me. Odo's my favourite character of all; Auberjonois is a magnificent actor!

I could never get tired of DS9. I'm a Niner, all the way!
(Oh, and Odo/Kira is the best couple ever!)

Great post and welcome to GW and the DS9 thread CM. You definitely landed in the right spot for scifi. The one thing you will realize very fast - All Stargate fans are hard-core scifi fans. We also share a general love of all scifi. And this Trek section (and especially this thread) are second to none - Best Trek posters on any scifi site I have ever been a part of.

Personally I have DS9 and Stargate ranked as the 2 best period! (I also love B5, Farscape, Andromeda, SGA, just to name a few...) - Like yourself I love all the Trek shows (especially DS9, TNG & VOY) (the golden age for scifi)

I agree about Odo/Auberjonis - he is in my top 5 Trek characters from any series period. I love how you called yourself a "Niner" - I haven't heard anyone call themselves that since the days the series was still on air.

I tend to have a different favorite character each time I do complete rewatch of DS9 - The last time I took a shine to Kira and Sisko more than anyone else. I am currently following along with another fellow Trekkie (who is part of superior thread family) who is doing a complete series rewatch (we are in the early parts of S3).

[Starbase]

Basically, Armageddon Game works because it puts two actors in a room, gives them some believable things to say, and the performances deliver. Keiko's investigation that leads her to suspect the forgery is somewhat hokey and a little hard to swallow, but no matter; the surprisingly clever and understated action finale wraps things up nicely.

Armageddon Game was a decent enough episode (hardly great), but interesting enough to enjoy. Personally I loved the scene where Quark honors both Bashir and O'Brien (Shimerman was on top of his game). I also enjoyed the reference to.....
"Rules of Acquisition #57: "Good customers are as rare as latinum. Treasure them."
As a business owner with my lovely wife - we know that rule say's it all.

[CMWriter]

Great post and welcome to GW and the DS9 thread CM. You definitely landed in the right spot for scifi. The one thing you will realize very fast - All Stargate fans are hard-core scifi fans. We also share a general love of all scifi. And this Trek section (and especially this thread) are second to none - Best Trek posters on any scifi site I have ever been a part of.

Personally I have DS9 and Stargate ranked as the 2 best period! (I also love B5, Farscape, Andromeda, SGA, just to name a few...) - Like yourself I love all the Trek shows (especially DS9, TNG & VOY) (the golden age for scifi)

I agree about Odo/Auberjonis - he is in my top 5 Trek characters from any series period. I love how you called yourself a "Niner" - I haven't heard anyone call themselves that since the days the series was still on air.

I tend to have a different favorite character each time I do complete rewatch of DS9 - The last time I took a shine to Kira and Sisko more than anyone else. I am currently following along with another fellow Trekkie (who is part of superior thread family) who is doing a complete series rewatch (we are in the early parts of S3).

First of all, thanks for the warm welcome on my page. My "noob" status (Probie?) doesn't allow me to thank you back, so I'll just do that here.

Yes, I kind of noticed that! Tons of Trekkies, and I know some folks over at Trekmovie that are into Stargate. Good taste in sci-fi, I'll say. And yeah, I do use the term "Niner", haha. I don't remember where I first heard the term, but it's got a nice ring to it!

Besides, DS9 has a special sort of place in my heart because it premiered the year I was born (1993 of course). My folks liked Star Trek, too, and once my mom showed me a page in her diary she wrote in while she was pregnant about DS9. The episode "Dax" (1x08) aired the day before my birth. Coincidence..!? I think not!

Such great writing. Just simply amazing. I really want to write a letter to either Ira Steven Behr or Rene Echevarria one of these days, and maybe any other writers out there. (:

[rien]

Yes, I kind of noticed that! Tons of Trekkies, and I know some folks over at Trekmovie that are into Stargate. Good taste in sci-fi, I'll say. And yeah, I do use the term "Niner", haha. I don't remember where I first heard the term, but it's got a nice ring to it!

Besides, DS9 has a special sort of place in my heart because it premiered the year I was born (1993 of course). My folks liked Star Trek, too, and once my mom showed me a page in her diary she wrote in while she was pregnant about DS9. The episode "Dax" (1x08) aired the day before my birth. Coincidence..!? I think not!

I tend to think of myself as being a 'Niner' though like you i dont recall where i first heard the term. Its great that you have a special connection with DS9 both being born in the same year

[jelgate]

I tend to think of myself as being a 'Niner' though like you i dont recall where i first heard the term. Its great that you have a special connection with DS9 both being born in the same year

Its the bond to the Sisko. Trust in the Sisko for he is of Bajor and has a pagh of strength

[the Fifth Race]

Besides, DS9 has a special sort of place in my heart because it premiered the year I was born (1993 of course). My folks liked Star Trek, too, and once my mom showed me a page in her diary she wrote in while she was pregnant about DS9. The episode "Dax" (1x08) aired the day before my birth. Coincidence..!? I think not!

To kewl, your mom rocks CM - My dad and I watched a lot of Star Trek together (we still do occasionally). He and my mom were big TOS fans, they said they used to sit me in front of the television as a baby to watch it with them (I guess I had no choice but to become a Trekkie) LOL. I was in college when TNG premiered and I used to go home on weekends to watch that weeks pre-recorded episode with my dad and a few Trekkie friends (TNG was very popular with my fellow engineering students at Cal Berkeley) When DS9 came out in the early 1990's I was working in Japan for the US Navy, so my dad and my good friend brother Starbase used to record the episodes and mail them to me on the base in Tokyo (where I and 3 other fellow engineers watched gleefully).

DS9 is IMHO by far the best of Trek shows. Not only with the superior story-lines (The Dominion story-line is one of the best, if not the best, from any scifi show period), but the core group of regular//semi-regular//part-time characters/actors is second to none in all of scifi. That being said, and like yourself and brother Starbase, I love all the Trek shows, including TOS & ENT -------- (TNG, DS9 & VOY are definitely a cut-above)

Such great writing. Just simply amazing. I really want to write a letter to either Ira Steven Behr or Rene Echevarria one of these days, and maybe any other writers out there. (:

I have met them both and have listened to them lecture and do question and answer sessions at a few Star Trek conventions I attended back in the day. I can remember one convention in San Francisco where Ira Steven Behr, Ronald D Moore and Manny Coto did a special small room session with Trekkies that were willing to pay extra to sit with them in an intimate setting. I was with both brother Starbase and USS Defiant (regulars here on the superior thread). We ponied up an extra $150.00 each (which was fine considering the money was going to charities that the 3 writers choose) We had heard both RDM and Coto speak before, but that was the first time we saw Behr in person, he was quite impressive, as were all of them.

Anyway, welcome to the superior thread. You would be hard-pressed to find a smarter//better group anywhere on GateWorld.

[CMWriter]

Aah, I'm so jealous you got to meet Manny Coto and Ronald D. Moore and ISB! Knowing that just kills me a little inside. I've never been to a proper Star Trek convention. I've been to the Omaha Sci-Fi and Fantasy Festival (OSFEST) a few times but it's a relatively small con. It's just so expensive to travel. Why do the big names never come any closer to the Midwest than Chicago?

But it is so cool that you got to meet them all. Must've been one heck of an experience. However, I have sent an e-mail to Rene Auberjonois before.. a couple years ago, actually. And I got a reply! A very brief reply but one nonetheless. Strangely thrilling! I think I'll actually send a paper letter eventually though. He's such a veteran actor. It's incredible, all the legends he's acted with on stage. I thought he was a fantastic addition to DS9's cast and I can't think of anyone better to have filled that role.

Have any of you checked out the DS9 Relaunch series? I've read nearly all of it and I love it. However, I haven't seen anything since The Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts of Empie. It's very disheartening! It's like they dropped this amazing, ongoing plot involving Taran'atar and the Ascendants and the Founders and the whole Dominion collapse and on and on... Rather like a canceled TV series. Unless someone decides to pick up their pen and write! Otherwise I'll be forced to continue the cliffhanger they left with The Soul Key!

[USS Defiant]

Aah, I'm so jealous you got to meet Manny Coto and Ronald D. Moore and ISB! Knowing that just kills me a little inside. I've never been to a proper Star Trek convention. I've been to the Omaha Sci-Fi and Fantasy Festival (OSFEST) a few times but it's a relatively small con. It's just so expensive to travel. Why do the big names never come any closer to the Midwest than Chicago?

I was at that convention with brothers Fifth Race and Starbase. I was mad because I didn't want to pay the $150 after just already paying to park and get in the convention. But brother Fifth Race (the ultimate Trek fan) said it will be worth every penny, and darn him if he wasn't right! They not only did an extensive discussion on a possible season 8 storylines (post Dominion War), but they gave us the whole skinny about how Paramount was willing and ready to green-light an 8th season of DS9 -- In a nutshell TPTB with Paramount wanted to extend the Dominion War another season, but RDM and the other writers balked because when they decided they wanted an 8th season, they were already half-way through filming season 7 and had written the way the War ends (as what we got). After the writers found out that Paramount was willing to do an 8th season, RDM went to work and came with a handful of story-line concepts and idea's that were post-Dominion War. But Paramount ultimately rejected it and let the series end as it did. I guess it didn't turn out to badly, did it. Although a post-Dominion War 8th season would have been pretty darn sweet! I will let brother Fifth Race explain some of the idea's RDM and other writers came up with for a post-Dominion War 8th season (some mirror the post-series novels, and some were totally unique).

I have been to 2 conventions were Auberjonis made appearances but I never got close to him. I did meet and shake hands with Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes (both were so approachable and nice). I also got to meet Nana Visitor, Armin Shimerman and Avery Brooks, which was very cool considering I was a huge fan of his long before he got the Sisko role (big fan of Spencer for Hire & Hawk). There are quite a few other Trek actors from VOY & TNG I was able to get a word with.

Have any of you checked out the DS9 Relaunch series? I've read nearly all of it and I love it. However, I haven't seen anything since The Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts of Empie. It's very disheartening! It's like they dropped this amazing, ongoing plot involving Taran'atar and the Ascendants and the Founders and the whole Dominion collapse and on and on... Rather like a canceled TV series. Unless someone decides to pick up their pen and write! Otherwise I'll be forced to continue the cliffhanger they left with The Soul Key!

It's been years but I have read most all the Trek relaunches (canon and otherwise). Some were good and some were rather lame -- The Soul Key doesn't sound familiar, I will have to look for that one next time thw wife and I hit the used book store.

[USS Defiant]

I watched the season 3 opener The Jem'Hadar: Part I last night -- I had forgotten how absolutely top-notch the technical aspects are (esp. considering CGI was in its infancy) - including: when the Jem'Hadar ships attack the Defiant and then board it, getting into some mega-fisticuffs with the DS9 crew. Chattaway's musical score displays some atypically exciting energy. His score also adds suspense and provides a fascinating cinematic feel to an earlier scene where the Jem'Hadar look for the cloaked, dead-playing Defiant. They should have let Chattaway do all the scores.

"Search I" ends with a tantalizing cliffhanger and a major character development, where Odo and Kira escape the Defiant (whose fate, along with Sisko and the others, remains a mystery until part two) and land on a mysterious planet inhabited by morphing liquid creatures that resemble Odo. One walks up to him and says, "Welcome home."

Part II tonight

[CMWriter]

I loved "The Search"; first and second parts. But the whole time I was like, "Noooo, Odo, you can't leave yet! You haven't gotten together with Kira yet!" Aw man, if that relationship had never happened at all I would've been so disappointed. I still find it really kind of funny that Rene and Nana Visitor were never all that fond of the idea! It played out so well that last season and a half or so!

The Founders were, in general, one of my favourite species. Was also very fascinated by the Jem'Hadar, in particular Taran'atar from the Relaunch series. Is it just me or are they eerily similar to the Jaffa, only even more ruthless, creepily loyal, and about fifty times more efficient?

[Linda06]

Great post and welcome to GW and the DS9 thread CM. You definitely landed in the right spot for scifi. The one thing you will realize very fast - All Stargate fans are hard-core scifi fans. We also share a general love of all scifi. And this Trek section (and especially this thread) are second to none - Best Trek posters on any scifi site I have ever been a part of.

Personally I have DS9 and Stargate ranked as the 2 best period! (I also love B5, Farscape, Andromeda, SGA, just to name a few...) - Like yourself I love all the Trek shows (especially DS9, TNG & VOY) (the golden age for scifi)

I agree about Odo/Auberjonis - he is in my top 5 Trek characters from any series period. I love how you called yourself a "Niner" - I haven't heard anyone call themselves that since the days the series was still on air.

I tend to have a different favorite character each time I do complete rewatch of DS9 - The last time I took a shine to Kira and Sisko more than anyone else. I am currently following along with another fellow Trekkie (who is part of superior thread family) who is doing a complete series rewatch (we are in the early parts of S3).

Odo rocks, 'nuff said Kira and Odo were my fave characters It's been aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages since I saqw DS9

Besides, DS9 has a special sort of place in my heart because it premiered the year I was born (1993 of course). My folks liked Star Trek, too, and once my mom showed me a page in her diary she wrote in while she was pregnant about DS9. The episode "Dax" (1x08) aired the day before my birth. Coincidence..!? I think not!

Now you're making me feel old

[Spimman]

Chief O Brien and Bashir are really getting along in season three, arent they?

I would agree with you. Season 3 is when O'Brien and Bashir go from disliking one another and move towards friendship. I think it has something to do with Keiko going to Bajor which made O'Brien lonely

One of many things that rely on the foundation set in S1 & S2, but really make S3 the beginning of Epic DS9!