Deep Space 9 Superior

[Iffy]

Indeed Iffy. DS9 is chalk full of brilliant characters that are easy to loathe, including some truly evil ones - but for my money Winn Adami is tops on that list, especially after she turned her back on Bajor by being in cahoots with the Pai Wraiths.

She always had her self-interests ahead of everything else while not caring who she squashed on the way. The give and take between her and Kira are some of the best scenes in the entire series. Matching her up with Dukat towards the end of the series was a stroke of genius.

Just once it would be nice for Kira to punch Winn. Dukat played her so well if I remember correctly. Haven't reached that yet in my rewatch.

[jelgate]

Just once it would be nice for Kira to punch Winn. Dukat played her so well if I remember correctly. Haven't reached that yet in my rewatch.

Kira can't do that without their being major repercusions for her career. We do not speak of the Winn and Dukat sleeping with one another. Its too distubring and creepy.

[Cold Fuzz]

For the record, I've wanted somebody to slap Winn since season 1. Pah-wraith hell will do, though we don't really know about that for sure since she did have that last-minute change of heart.

You also got some redhead whumpage with her, too.

*sigh* I know. Ginn was a cutie to be sure but too short-lived. Killed off the only redhead.

I know whumpers, Fuzzy. They're a cute lot, until they start talking about the injuries their 'favourite' characters experienced and how they want to nurse the characters them back to health... o.O

*awkward silence* OK...um...yeah.
*has flashes of the movie Misery all of a sudden*

[Iffy]

Thats the point of her character. Showing false empathy behind religion when its all about power. Something we have seen before in some of the Earth's religions

And she does it so very well. She's very Machiavellian in nature.

Kira can't do that without their being major repercusions for her career. We do not speak of the Winn and Dukat sleeping with one another. Its too distubring and creepy.

I know that, but I can still wish for it even though it never happens. Good to know you are a Winn/Dukat shipper.

For the record, I've wanted somebody to slap Winn since season 1. Pah-wraith hell will do, though we don't really know about that for sure since she did have that last-minute change of heart.



*sigh* I know. Ginn was a cutie to be sure but too short-lived. Killed off the only redhead.



*awkward silence* OK...um...yeah.
*has flashes of the movie Misery all of a sudden* :P

[USS Defiant]

I was watching the Rapture the other day, when it dawned on me. I really hate Kai Winn, there's no empathy, sympathy at all. Really I rather despise the character, but she is so fun to hate. Her and her politics and religion.

lolol you and everyone else who watched DS9. By the way I love the Iliana Ghemor avatar Iffy

Let's talk about the great episode that you mentioned - Season 5's Rapture is IMO the embodiment of DS9's most respectable and intriguing qualities. Here is an excellent story (easily among the series' very best) with brilliantly realized layers of subtlety and complexity that will reward faithful followers with some of its finest writing. The best way I can sum things up is to say that there is so much resonating substance in this episode that it's almost amazing.

Like in season 4's Accession (a terrific show in its own right but not as great as this one), the writers of DS9 decide to return to the series' true roots, and prove that they still have the ability and desire to do intelligent, probing Bajor stories that believe in mystical spirituality and the unusual and inexplicable.

[escyos]

Up to 2X12 and it has gotten better.

[USS Defiant]

Up to 2X12 and it has gotten better.

It's about to get a whole lot better

By now you have heard about the Dominion - at the end of season 2 (not to many episodes away), you will meet the Vorta and the Jem'Hadar soldier (both are rather frightening, in different ways as you will soon see for yourself). You will also embark on a 5 season Dominion War arc that is down right epic, and not only for Star Trek, but for any scifi series that has come before.

[maneth]

Yeah, the Dominion war arc is amazing. In my book only beaten by the Babylon 5 Shadow War arc.

[Saquist]

Yeah, the Dominion war arc is amazing. In my book only beaten by the Babylon 5 Shadow War arc.

Easily Beaten by the Shadow War.
The shadow war was perfectly composed with the expection of the somewhat questionable and quick ending....but at least it made sense.

DS9 had the perfect 2 parter since TBOBW. WotW was movie level writing and actions...we never see it again.

[Spimman]

Up to 2X12 and it has gotten better.

Hold on tight, the ride is about to go from good to Amazing!

[the Fifth Race]

Yeah, the Dominion war arc is amazing. In my book only beaten by the Babylon 5 Shadow War arc.

Which ever you like more B5 or DS9, you are in fine company. As much as I like B5 (ranked 3rd on my all-time favorite scifi show list) and the Shadow War arc, IMHO it didn't quite match-up with DS9's Dominion War arc. Both War arc's along with Stargate's Anubis arc, are my 3 favorite/best scifi arc/storylines period!

[the Fifth Race]

Season 5's Rapture is IMO the embodiment of DS9's most respectable and intriguing qualities. Here is an excellent story (easily among the series' very best) with brilliantly realized layers of subtlety and complexity that will reward faithful followers with some of its finest writing. The best way I can sum things up is to say that there is so much resonating substance in this episode that it's almost amazing.

Well said brother USS Defiant - Rapture is more about Sisko and his visions, and what happens when he begins having such foreboding, prophetic insight, than it is about Bajor and it's politics. A big part of the story's success can be attributed to the fact that it uses mysticism as an approach. It's particularly nice to see that the show doesn't pull its punches and try to explain these miracles using the typical sci-fi terms. These visions are visions, no doubt about it. They may be a side effect of Sisko's injury, perhaps, but that doesn't change the fact that they're miraculous gifts that, like existence itself, lie in a realm beyond our comprehension-maybe because it's not to be understood.

The spiritual implications alone are a major positive because we're invited to reflect upon them at almost every turn. But another big part of what makes "Rapture" such a brilliant story is the fact that these visions have such startling repercussions, which prove consistently thought-probing. For instance, Sisko's insight leads him straight to B'hala itself, the underground coordinates of which he locates after a mere few days of staring at a representation of a B'halan obelisk from the holosuite program. The story's execution of this search is absorbing; the episode works up a fascinating sense of wonder for its discovery of the lost city. What's most relevant and astounding here, though, is Sisko's character, who cares deeply about his find and its meaning. Noteworthy is the way this demonstrates how far Sisko's role in Bajoran mythology has come since "Emissary." Here he finally seems comfortable and devoted to taking his role in Bajoran mysticism (opposed to his attempts to distance himself from it in "Accession"), and that's a powerful realization that's worthy of respect and awe-of both Sisko's character and the DS9 writers.

[Cold Fuzz]

The spiritual implications alone are a major positive because we're invited to reflect upon them at almost every turn. But another big part of what makes "Rapture" such a brilliant story is the fact that these visions have such startling repercussions, which prove consistently thought-probing. For instance, Sisko's insight leads him straight to B'hala itself, the underground coordinates of which he locates after a mere few days of staring at a representation of a B'halan obelisk from the holosuite program. The story's execution of this search is absorbing; the episode works up a fascinating sense of wonder for its discovery of the lost city. What's most relevant and astounding here, though, is Sisko's character, who cares deeply about his find and its meaning. Noteworthy is the way this demonstrates how far Sisko's role in Bajoran mythology has come since "Emissary." Here he finally seems comfortable and devoted to taking his role in Bajoran mysticism (opposed to his attempts to distance himself from it in "Accession"), and that's a powerful realization that's worthy of respect and awe-of both Sisko's character and the DS9 writers.

I think my favorite aspect of "Rapture" was the dramatic fashion in which Sisko was confirmed to be the Emissary. The audience knew from the first episode of the series that Sisko was indeed the Emissary. But of course, Bajorans still had their doubts about Sisko being the Emissary—notably Winn. But those doubts are utterly smashed when Sisko is unshakably confirmed to be the Emissary by finding B'hala in a matter of days while the Bajorans themselves couldn't find their own city for 10,000 years.

Another remarkable thing about this episode is how Sisko being the Emissary visibly brought the Bajorans together... while polarizing his crew. Dax, O'Brien, Bashir, and Odo are of course skeptical. Hell, I might even be more skeptical than Odo. I do empathize with the suspicious and questioning nature of being an investigator if it weren't for the fact that I completely understand Kira and Worf's position. Worf just stunned me in this episode because he didn't strike me as a person of faith, despite wanting to believe in past TNG episodes... but not quite believing. The scene in ops with the crew discussing Sisko's situation was outstanding.

[the Fifth Race]

I think my favorite aspect of "Rapture" was the dramatic fashion in which Sisko was confirmed to be the Emissary. The audience knew from the first episode of the series that Sisko was indeed the Emissary. But of course, Bajorans still had their doubts about Sisko being the Emissary—notably Winn. But those doubts are utterly smashed when Sisko is unshakably confirmed to be the Emissary by finding B'hala in a matter of days while the Bajorans themselves couldn't find their own city for 10,000 years.

Great observation brother Fuzz!. Avery Brooks gives us one of his most interesting and textured performances (in the entire series). I loved how after Sisko's visions begin appearing, he has a sedate and peaceful aura about him, mostly in the way he speaks. It's indeed spiritual, as if he has briefly seen something (or maybe everything)-that has given him an understanding of, as he puts it, "the very universe itself". One serene, engaging sequence has the captain literally walking through the promenade telling fortunes to complete strangers.

[the Fifth Race]

Another remarkable thing about this episode is how Sisko being the Emissary visibly brought the Bajorans together... while polarizing his crew. Dax, O'Brien, Bashir, and Odo are of course skeptical. Hell, I might even be more skeptical than Odo. I do empathize with the suspicious and questioning nature of being an investigator if it weren't for the fact that I completely understand Kira and Worf's position. Worf just stunned me in this episode because he didn't strike me as a person of faith, despite wanting to believe in past TNG episodes... but not quite believing. The scene in ops with the crew discussing Sisko's situation was outstanding.

Indeed brother Fuzz, and a great call. I will break it down since I just re-watched Rapture last night -- Worf argues on Kira's side for faith against a reluctant Dax and O'Brien. "Since when did you believe in the Prophets?" Dax asks him. "What I believe in," he answers, "is faith." -- "That's not much to bet his life on," Dax says. "You're wrong. It's everything," Kira responds with a distinct aura of certainty. The subtle complexity of the acting in this argument is quite interesting, as you so well pointed out my friend. And by commenting on the plot, the characters not participating in it are put to a very reasonable use. It's brilliantly detailed.