Deep Space 9 Superior

[the Fifth Race]

At first I thought he was a bit of a lame villian; not very imposing physically, not even intellectually intimidating like Q, but he really was the definitive 'thorn in our heroes side' because, just sometimes, you thought he wasn't really a thorn.

Cardassians in general are quite interesting, at least they are interesting to watch, listening to them talk is an exercise in ego. I liken Dukat as the type of villain you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy.

I think I grew to like every character more during the course of the show, Bashir was no exception. I have a special fondness for Garak. He got such juicy one-liners.

Garak is a wonderfully annoying character, weird, scary and charming all in one brilliant package. I especially enjoyed the Garak character towards the end of series when he was trying to help Damar take back Cardassia, at least we got see the real Garak in the end.

And if you had to recommend one?

Oh boy, it has been awhile since I read any Trek books, I do remember one that was titled The War of the Prophets that was a 3 book series that takes place maybe 10 years after the end of the Dominion War. I remember the Pai Wraiths were reeking havoc on Bajor and the Alpha Quadrant again and that Weyoun was the Pai Wriaths emissary.

I will dig some up that I read and post them later.

[Trek_Girl42]

I love Cardassian episodes- they're definitly a species that were given a lot of depth, and I also like how they're not all pigeon-holed into one character trait as is done so often in Trek and sci-fi in general, it's nice to see diversity among a Star Trek species. And Gerak is at the moment, probably among my top five DS9 characters.



I'm curious, which version of the opening credits do you guys like better? I was a bit saddened by seeing the difference between the seasons 1-3 credits and the season four credits. My favourite moment it when the camera pans over the empty field of stars to the tiny station, I thought that moment really captured the show, and the idea of being alone out in space, far from the easy support of the federation, however, in the season four credits they added the runabouts and various other ships into the credits as well as the updated music and a whispy nebula behind the station- I don't like that, I think it undermines the feel that the show is supposed to have. I get why they did it- DS9 is more of a "hotspot" in the quadrant in season four then it was in season one, but.....it doesn't work for me. I liked it when it had that sense of aloneness.

[Descent]

Ah Garak, such a classic character. I was always surprised he never became a regular character on the show.

[Missster.Freeman]

Yes, that's exactly right TrekGirl42. They were more or less isolated in the first few seasons, but because of contact with the Dominion, DS9 was about to become the most strategically important area of the galaxy. I'm not too fussed either way about the changes in opening sequence and the more up-tempo music. I feel it was necessary to change at least some of the opening footage to include the Defiant.

I remember just before season 4 was aired, there was a lot of talk in magazines and websites about DS9 failing as a show, so Trek TPTB brought Worf aboard as a familiar face to give the series a boost. When I think about it now, ten years later, it does seem like a series relaunch. What with the new direction of long story arcs, opening credits, and Worf of course. And remember, "The Way of the Warrior" was a feature length episode like "The Emissary" and there was a lot of promotion for it in the sci fi mags.

I can't wait to see the season 4 opener again. I finished season 3 just last week.

[Trek_Girl42]

Yes, that's exactly right TrekGirl42. They were more or less isolated in the first few seasons, but because of contact with the Dominion, DS9 was about to become the most strategically important area of the galaxy. I'm not too fussed either way about the changes in opening sequence and the more up-tempo music. I feel it was necessary to change at least some of the opening footage to include the Defiant.

I remember just before season 4 was aired, there was a lot of talk in magazines and websites about DS9 failing as a show, so Trek TPTB brought Worf aboard as a familiar face to give the series a boost. When I think about it now, ten years later, it does seem like a series relaunch. What with the new direction of long story arcs, opening credits, and Worf of course. And remember, "The Way of the Warrior" was a feature length episode like "The Emissary" and there was a lot of promotion for it in the sci fi mags.

I can't wait to see the season 4 opener again. I finished season 3 just last week.

The new sequence works for the show.....but I don't like how they disrupted that pan over with a runabout, I just don't like it as much, because I LOVE the DS9 credits and music.

I can't see that two parter enough- great, great episodes. The Visitor was on today- I've seen that one before and I still can't get through it without crying.

Great, great ep.

[Brigadier General Pants]

Garak is a wonderfully annoying character, weird, scary and charming all in one brilliant package. I especially enjoyed the Garak character towards the end of series when he was trying to help Damar take back Cardassia, at least we got see the real Garak in the end.

I liked the ep (forgive my ignorance for not supplying a name) where Garak's implant was malfunctioning, and he became even more biting than usual. All his charm was stripped away.

Oh boy, it has been awhile since I read any Trek books, I do remember one that was titled The War of the Prophets that was a 3 book series that takes place maybe 10 years after the end of the Dominion War. I remember the Pai Wraiths were reeking havoc on Bajor and the Alpha Quadrant again and that Weyoun was the Pai Wriaths emissary.

I will dig some up that I read and post them later.

OK, I'll look them up

[the Fifth Race]

I liked the ep (forgive my ignorance for not supplying a name) where Garak's implant was malfunctioning, and he became even more biting than usual. All his charm was stripped away.

I believe that episode was titled The Wire from season II, which was a story from the DS9 book Stitch in Time. Garak leaves his Obsidian Order implant on continuously for 2 years so he feels little or no pain, and starts to suffer seizures because it malfunctions.

That was a great episode, watching Garak's struggle to seek any kind of help or show any weakness in front of his peers was so painfully typical of Cardassians. It did give us great insight into the workings of the Obsidian order and some of Garaks back story. I remember watching it for the first time during its original airing, wondering to myself, 'I sure would love one of those no pain implants in my brain'.

[the Fifth Race]

I love Cardassian episodes- they're definitly a species that were given a lot of depth, and I also like how they're not all pigeon-holed into one character trait as is done so often in Trek and sci-fi in general, it's nice to see diversity among a Star Trek species. And Gerak is at the moment, probably among my top five DS9 characters.

I have always ranked Garak in my top 5 favorite (non regular) characters from any Trek series and in my top 5 overall on DS9. When I go back and look at some of my favorite episodes from all seasons of DS9, Garak figures prominently in a lot of them, including what I consider the best Trek episode ever!. Which is 2 episodes away in our episode discussion.

I'm curious, which version of the opening credits do you guys like better? I was a bit saddened by seeing the difference between the seasons 1-3 credits and the season four credits. My favourite moment it when the camera pans over the empty field of stars to the tiny station, I thought that moment really captured the show, and the idea of being alone out in space, far from the easy support of the federation, however, in the season four credits they added the runabouts and various other ships into the credits as well as the updated music and a whispy nebula behind the station- I don't like that, I think it undermines the feel that the show is supposed to have. I get why they did it- DS9 is more of a "hotspot" in the quadrant in season four then it was in season one, but.....it doesn't work for me. I liked it when it had that sense of aloneness.

You make a great point Lady Trek in pointing out the differences between the two opening sequences and musical scores. Even though I noticed the differences when they changed it up between seasons III and IV I never thought about it the way you mentioned. The original one, where it showed DS9 as being this small entity sitting among the stars all alone did give the show that feeling "of being all alone out in space". I have always enjoyed the musical scores and the opening credit sequences from all the Trek series, especially DS9's.

There was big leap, not only in the opening sequence but over-all, in the quality of special effects starting in season IV of DS9, not only did the storyline lend itself to more special effects but the CGI improved dramatically.

[Trek_Girl42]

I have always ranked Garak in my top 5 favorite (non regular) characters from any Trek series and in my top 5 overall on DS9. When I go back and look at some of my favorite episodes from all seasons of DS9, Garak figures prominently in a lot of them, including what I consider the best Trek episode ever!. Which is 2 episodes away in our episode discussion.

You make a great point Lady Trek in pointing out the differences between the two opening sequences and musical scores. Even though I noticed the differences when they changed it up between seasons III and IV I never thought about it the way you mentioned. The original one, where it showed DS9 as being this small entity sitting among the stars all alone did give the show that feeling "of being all alone out in space". I have always enjoyed the musical scores and the opening credit sequences from all the Trek series, especially DS9's.

There was big leap, not only in the opening sequence but over-all, in the quality of special effects starting in season IV of DS9, not only did the storyline lend itself to more special effects but the CGI improved dramatically.

The thing is, that in the opening credits, the Enterprise, or Voyager, etc. is always balanced out on the screen by a planet, or a nebula, or in a close-up shot. It never emotes the realistc feeling of "hey we're way out in space, it's pretty big and we're pretty small". Although that 'aloneness' wasn't entily suited to the 'feel' of those shows (the Enterprise was really just a small town that moved through space), I think it might have been nice to see. The DS9 credits did that, and I really liked it- it's just one more tiny thing that makes DS9 feel a little more.....I'd like to say 'realistic', but I'm not sure that's the right word.

[Missster.Freeman]

I think the description you could be looking for is - "All Alone in the Night." Ah, no. That was the tagline for DS9's greatest rival at the time, Babylon 5. Mind you, B5 wasn't exactly 'All Alone,' it was orbiting a planet with a living machine in its core. DS9 actually was hanging in space. So yes, the description is more apt for the Federation Space Station.

[Carl]

I agree that the sequence in seasons 1-3 was nice for the isolation it demonstrated. The rogue comet and the hugeness of space both gave the impression that DS9 is really 'out there' and alone, which is helped by the very distant shot of the space station before the close-up shots begin. The slower music was a perfect compliment to that. Its hard to explain the precise effect of the music but it the slow beat and rythym helped to create quite a remote, rugid and slightly dangerous feel in the same way that VOY's theme related to exploration and grace and TNG was all about grandness and bigness.

The problem with the early credits in my eyes was that it seemed to drag a little too much. While I can watch the entire Voyager sequence I often skip through the sequence for DS9. The faster beat and more up-tempo music makes the sequence more watchable time and time again from season 4 but I agree that the effect is different. The faster, busier music as well as the ships flying here and there gives the impression of a bustling centre of trade and travel... which is, arguably, what DS9 is by this point. I think the change is very true to the growth and change of the series over the years.

If I had to say which I preferred to watch I'd have to say its the adapted sequence from season 4 although I definately agree that the season 1-3 sequence perfectly complemented the show, its themes and its pretense at that time.

[Descent]

I think the description you could be looking for is - "All Alone in the Night." Ah, no. That was the tagline for DS9's greatest rival at the time, Babylon 5. Mind you, B5 wasn't exactly 'All Alone,' it was orbiting a planet with a living machine in its core. DS9 actually was hanging in space. So yes, the description is more apt for the Federation Space Station.

True.

I find myself constantly drawing comparisons between the two. Some claim B5 ripped off DS9 and DS9 ripped off B5, etc. IMO, there are some eerie similiarites between the two but they are both great shows in their own rights.

[the Fifth Race]

Speaking of theme music and scores, these were the finalists when DS9 was picking its theme song ..........


New DS9 Theme Songs
Copyright © 1997 by Peter Anspach; All Rights Reserved.

Opening Theme:

Come listen to a story `bout a man named Ben,
A washed-up commander down on his luck and then,
One day he brought an orb to the Prophets of Bajor,
And they opened up a dimensional door.

Wormhole, that is...Spatial rift...Hyperspace highway.

Well the next thing you know, Starfleet became compliant,
Promoted him to captain and gave him the Defiant,
They said, Ben you're lucky we stuck you in that place,
Now just don't screw up your job commandin' Deep Space.

Nine, that is...Runabouts...Jem'Hadars.
The Deep Space Niners!!!

Closing Theme:

Now it's time to say goodbye to Ben and all his crew,
For stoppin' by and visitin', they really do thank you,
And if you're passin' by next week while headin' Bajor's way,
They've got a spot reserved for you, in a dockin' bay.

Y'all warp on back now, y'hear?

[Carl]

Speaking of theme music and scores, these were the finalists when DS9 was picking its theme song ..........


New DS9 Theme Songs
Copyright © 1997 by Peter Anspach; All Rights Reserved.

Opening Theme:

Come listen to a story `bout a man named Ben,
A washed-up commander down on his luck and then,
One day he brought an orb to the Prophets of Bajor,
And they opened up a dimensional door.

Wormhole, that is...Spatial rift...Hyperspace highway.

Well the next thing you know, Starfleet became compliant,
Promoted him to captain and gave him the Defiant,
They said, Ben you're lucky we stuck you in that place,
Now just don't screw up your job commandin' Deep Space.

Nine, that is...Runabouts...Jem'Hadars.
The Deep Space Niners!!!

Closing Theme:

Now it's time to say goodbye to Ben and all his crew,
For stoppin' by and visitin', they really do thank you,
And if you're passin' by next week while headin' Bajor's way,
They've got a spot reserved for you, in a dockin' bay.

Y'all warp on back now, y'hear?

LOL... very.... unique. Would be interesting to see the opening sequence with that recorded over it.

[Brigadier General Pants]

The problem with the early credits in my eyes was that it seemed to drag a little too much. While I can watch the entire Voyager sequence I often skip through the sequence for DS9. The faster beat and more up-tempo music makes the sequence more watchable time and time again from season 4 but I agree that the effect is different. The faster, busier music as well as the ships flying here and there gives the impression of a bustling centre of trade and travel... which is, arguably, what DS9 is by this point. I think the change is very true to the growth and change of the series over the years.

If I had to say which I preferred to watch I'd have to say its the adapted sequence from season 4 although I definately agree that the season 1-3 sequence perfectly complemented the show, its themes and its pretense at that time.

Upon much meditation, I agree - I do prefer the later credits, but looking at the change over the years does accurately reflect how the pace of the show changed. I take the holistic view.