Haunted (211)

[AresLover452]

From what I can remember (and anyone feel free to correct me, I heard this podcast while driving on icy roads )

Spoiler:

DK and CH were saying that they believe Druitt chose to take the entity back because he loves Helen, so he chose to sacrifice his new-found sanity in order to save her. MW believes that Druitt did it because he loves the killing the entity drove him to, that he couldn't wait to get back to that.

Personally, I'm with DK and CH.

Spoiler:

That is basically what I got out of it. CH said that Druitt was uncomfortable with the peace, the calm in his mind. Maybe they are both right but I am more inclined to go with DK and CH interpretations... cause I shp for Helen and john... lol!!

[Alder]

From what I can remember (and anyone feel free to correct me, I heard this podcast while driving on icy roads )

Spoiler:

DK and CH were saying that they believe Druitt chose to take the entity back because he loves Helen, so he chose to sacrifice his new-found sanity in order to save her. MW believes that Druitt did it because he loves the killing the entity drove him to, that he couldn't wait to get back to that.
Personally, I'm with DK and CH.

Spoiler:

That is basically what I got out of it. CH said that Druitt was uncomfortable with the peace, the calm in his mind. Maybe they are both right but I am more inclined to go with DK and CH interpretations... cause I shp for Helen and john... lol!!

Aaah...grazie.

Spoiler:

Yup, on what we *actually saw*, I'd agree with the two of you, there was nothing given to us that suggested Druitt was awkward or uncomfortable with how he felt, but instead that he was enjoying the peace. [Aaaaaand, I listened to the very end of the podcast while I was typing this up, and if that's what MW was aiming for - he failed dramatically. Eejit.] My impression was much more that Druitt was pained by the necessity of what he had to do for Helen (and the others) to live.
Also, to be honest - it's the better story, and makes more sense.

[AresLover452]

Spoiler:

that's why I love this episode so much. What Druitt did was a sacrafice for the greater good, but his personal sacrafice would be losing that calm he had gained when Helen accidentaly saved him.

[JenniferJF]

I think that may have been the point. They have this great love, but he's evil, or is he? & then they're in a crisis--no time...if only...
much more affecting without a kiss, imho

I think Helen - in the years since everything went down - had come to the point where she really believed (sort of as she tells John at the beginning of EoN2) that John wasn't capable of love - that if he had ever really loved her, he wouldn't have succumbed to the compulsion and bloodlust and killed. This is why I think in Kush after her inititial memory of his proposal, the next time he says, "For all eternity" it's rather mocking and is a painful memory for her.. she doubts his emotions were *ever* real. And I think John knows that, too, from her actions, which is why before he goes in to lose himself again he *has* to tell her he still loves her and make certain she knows he *meant* it when he told her 'For all eternity'. And I think it's only then.. seeing him there about to sacrifice everything he is.. that she finally understands and believes again.

So they couldn't kiss. They couldn't even touch because, I think, if they had, he wouldn't have had the strength to go and, more importantly, given the huge revelation she'd *just* had, she wouldn't have had the strength to maintain her control and let him do what had to be done.

Her final words to him, too, I think show the complete reversal of her thoughts on this. Because where before she seemed to blame him in part for everything that had happened - some propensity for violence and bloodshed - now she realizes that, given being out of John and in the Sanctuary resulted in near mass murder, not simply serial killings, that John must have been exerting incredible control on the thing all these years to prevent even *more* bloodshed and death. He wasn't the evil villain she'd believed and feared him to be all these years but, really, the hero of the story who'd kept the evil at bay.

And he was, really, sacrificing himself again to continue to do so. And his final words to her there before the door... that he loved her.. that was his explanation of why. It was also begging her, I think, not to forget that he still did love her no matter what happened in the future.

/end essay



But to summarize... They couldn't kiss - or even touch - because what he was about to go do was already hard enough. Further contact would have made it nearly impossible.

IMHO. Of course.

[Aurora24]

This episode was so sad, especially since I was hoping that John would stay good John. The reason behind him being compelled to kill being an energy creature was a shock, but it reminded me of something he'd said to Watson at the end of the last season. He'd told Watson that when he'd been killing he felt like he was in the grip of an "irresistible force". Turns out he was right.

I kinda saw the ending coming, and I agree with what DK and CH said about John's reason for taking back the creature. He loves Helen, and he knew it was the only way to save her. The ending reminded me of the ending of an episode of Charmed where one of the guys temporarily lost the demonic powers that made him evil, but took them back to save the woman he loved. Love is a strong motivator to make that kind of personal sacrifice. I really hope they don't kill John off. It was left kind of open given that John stated at the beginning of the ep that its dangerous to teleport without knowing where he's going.

If John survived I wonder if it would be possibly to catch him, draw the creature out of him and contain or destroy it. We know it'll abandon its host body if that body dies, so if Henry could rig some kind of trap, they could briefly kill him and bring him back. Part of me would love to see this happen and then see what John would be like sane and trying to adjust after everything that had happened.

[ann_sgcfan]

There seems to be some dilemma regarding what was shown in the eppy. I think the episode shows the creature is the reason for John's madness and he was enjoying the peace and sanity once the creature left (which according to some above that's what DK and CH said in the podcast - Which only really matters because of how s3 will be written. I'm of the belief, I don't like to be told what I saw. I want the episode to stand on it's on and writer's/director's don't interpret what I was suppose to see).

I do wonder if this will ignite the creature into more killings, as this creature seems more powerful as it gained lots of info from the Sanctuary database. Will the creature be even harder to stop now? John has never been able to control it without some sort of shock therapy or death causing the creature to leave him. This episode does seem to ask more question than answer and it also re-writes what we know about John's power.

Will Helen second guess herself now that she knows the creature was responsible for the killings and not his teleporting power driving him mad. She had made the wrong assumption, will she look at the more aggressive creatures differently? Will Henry develop a device to detect this type of creature in the future? How does Helen feel knowing it wasn't John's madness, but that her one time finance has been tormented and controlled by a vicious creature for more than a century.

[helenmagnus23]

I've been thinking if the entity chooses not to leave John's body couldnt there be away to supres it like in Pennance that other abnormal who had dangerouis anger issues ?

I loved this eps alot but i'd love to have seen a kiss becase we havent seen a kiss scince the webisodes it would be nice to one again wether it be in a flashback or know

Podcast

Spoiler:

I loved the listening to DK,CH &MW it was so cool but iin them disscusing John taking the entity back i'd have to agree with DK & CH becase like Ares i'm a shipper and the way i saw that scene was John sacraficing himself not only to save Helen but the Sanctuary as well . I think John know's Helen will try to find away to save him but when and how we will have to wait and see and hopefully there will be a kiss somewhere in there

[Alder]

There seems to be some dilemma regarding what was shown in the eppy. I think the episode shows the creature is the reason for John's madness and he was enjoying the peace and sanity once the creature left...

I'd have to agree with you there. If the writer/director was actually going for

Spoiler:

Druitt being pleased about going back to evicerating innocent women for the lulz

then they failed. I just didn't see that at all.

And frankly, "Good man tormented by evil creature to the point that he believes in his own evil" is just a better story than "Bad man finds an excuse to be bad."

How does Helen feel knowing it wasn't John's madness, but that her one time finance has been tormented and controlled by a vicious creature for more than a century.

This too makes for a much better question than "So, will the bad dude turn up again and do more bad stuff?"

I want to know - once the events of Kali have been dealt with, of course! - how Helen will deal with this. Will they try to prepare for Druitt's possible return? Could she twist Tesla's arm and have him put that brilliant mind (which, frankly, he's been wasting for the last 70 or 80 years on the whole 'restore the vampires' thing) to work on a solution? He's supposed to be the inventor, after all... Are they going to see Druitt as a victim, someone they should save, or will the writers go for the easy option of him being a dangerous villain that the Sanctuary needs to be protected from?

...or did they miss all this potential for interesting storylines and did just kill him off. Hope not.

[JenniferJF]

I'd have to agree with you there. If the writer/director was actually going for

Spoiler:

Druitt being pleased about going back to evicerating innocent women for the lulz

then they failed. I just didn't see that at all.

Well, according to the podcast, only MW had that opinion he enjoyed it -really - and wanted it back. And PdL directed this one. And I agree with both you and Ann, what I saw onscreen was awestruck joyous relief when he realized he hadn't been responsible for everything that had happened and he was himself again. CH and DK described him as a tragic hero who chose to sacrifice his humanity for the woman he loved. Which is what I see onscreen.

And frankly, "Good man tormented by evil creature to the point that he believes in his own evil" is just a better story than "Bad man finds an excuse to be bad."

Absolutly. It's just a brilliant idea, IMHO. Effectively turning the villain into a hero in 44 mins of television. Plus, he becomes in many ways a victim of the creature himself because it took away his life and everything he held dear as well. Though, considering he kept it under control to the extent it was a serial killer instead of the mass murderer it attempted to become in the Sanctuary, he isn't simply a victim.

And how ironic is it that the Sanctuary, much of which was designed to protect Helen (and Ashley) from John was, ultimately, more dangerous than John and, in the end, John had to protect her from the Sanctuary?

or will the writers go for the easy option of him being a dangerous villain that the Sanctuary needs to be protected from?

Whatever they chose to do, I'm betting it won't be this. Nothing about this show is easy and they seem intent on making the boldest storytelling decisions possible.

...or did they miss all this potential for interesting storylines and did just kill him off. Hope not.

I doubt it here... I'd think killing both Ashley and Druitt off would destroy too many ties to the core of who Helen is and her past. Plus it's really easy to simply say, "The creature chose a destination" or "he managed to land somewhere safe" and go from there without damaging the drama of Haunted's final few moments.

[Skydiver]

I think john had been under the influence of the creature for so long that he believed that he was evil. he believed that he was a murderer, that he was a monster.

when tesla 'imprisoned' it with the electricity (must not have killed it or john would have felt it being gone) john likely thought 'ok, so some shock therapy and i don't feel like murdering for a while, cool'.

it was only when the entity left him did he realize and maybe have confirmation of old, old memories that he wasn't evil, that it was the creature either making him or pushing him to slice and dice. he was like a prisoner, accidentally dropped off at a park who then had to choose to return to the prison to save the life of another.

i do think that he accepted Electro back, aware that Helen now knew about it and that - if he survived - she'd work to help him get free.

they will likely never be more than friends. I don't think she'll ever trust him enough to allow him into her life or bed, but she would try to free him

so he goes back to his prison with the hope that someone, sometime, just might find a key

[JenniferJF]

I agree with nearly everything you said except these two points:

they will likely never be more than friends. I don't think she'll ever trust him enough to allow him into her life or bed, but she would try to free him.

I'm not sure they could ever just be friends. Too many emotions there, both currently and in the past, and too much tension for them to settle into that. IMHO, of course. And while Helen's words spoke distrust, I think her actions and body language by the end of Haunted said she really did believe him and trust him again. So I can see, over time (lots of time, which they'd have ) her coming to fully trust him again. Not saying they *would* just that, before Haunted I'd have said it was impossible but now, knowing it was all just the creature, I think it just might be.

Though it of course depends on how and if they get the creature out of him and, as with everything on this show, it's all subject to change without notice.

so he goes back to his prison with the hope that someone, sometime, just might find a key

I think at the very end of the episode, and after Helen told him she realized he'd kept the creature at bay, John managed to get control again just enough to make the decision to teleport without a destination - effectively, IMHO, choosing to try for death and to destroy the creature within him rather than risk it's doing any more harm to anyone. Which is, tragically, the same thing Ashley did in nearly that exact same physical location in front of Helen only a short time earlier.

So I'm not sure he'd thought out the idea when he first did it so far as to hope that Helen (or someone) would be able to free him again so much as that he realized, whatever happened, at least everyone but him would be better off with the creature back in him. Which is why when he saw a chance to try to destroy the creature, even though it meant killing himself, he took it.

[Skydiver]

he did try to kill it. and we'll have to wait until s3 sometime to see if he succeeded or not.

or maybe he was hoping, if he ported with no destination, that the creature might 'get lost' in transit

[ann_sgcfan]

he did try to kill it. and we'll have to wait until s3 sometime to see if he succeeded or not.

or maybe he was hoping, if he ported with no destination, that the creature might 'get lost' in transit

I'm hoping it's not that easy. The creature seemed to be pretty intelligent as it locked everyone in at the Sanctuary, so I can't see it allowing John to teleport to some location that would cause the creature any harm. As Alder said I do want Helen, Tesla and co. to help save John and not think of him as someone that has to be stopped. I think/ hope we are past the John "is evil and must be stopped" bit. John is like any other abnormal that has been trapped against his will for over a century!

[JenniferJF]

Just dropping back here to recommend a new Haunted related fic which I think beautifully describes and explains what John might have been going through with the creature. I wouldn't normally rec a fic here, but in this case, I think a 'picture' is worth a thousand words. Now, granted, I'm biased cause the writer's my friend and mutual-beta, but still...

Malorum Est on LJ of ffnet

[Mousie]

Loved the episode, loved it. I so love all the mixed emotions between John and Helen. I thought that they dealt with it all in a very good manner, that some questions have been answered but at the same time everything is still open. It could all go in any direction still. Is John alive or dead (Alive I hope), was he responsible for the murders or was it the creature, how long has it been in him? Personally I think as others have said that whilst the creature is the driving force behind the murders that it was embracing something already in John.

I truely hope he's back for S3.

Thank's for the link Jennifer, I like that author and will enjoy reading it.