Next Tuesday (208)

[suse]

Or they just associated the water stuff together in the opening credits...

[EvenstarSRV]

In a romantized version... maybe...but there was nothing romantic about the sinking or the dying of so many people.

May I be the one to set the record straight for all you non-believers -

Margaret Tobin Brown (aka the infamous Unsinkable Molly Brown) who was never called Molly in the first place:

From the Encyclopedia Titanica:



So in short - no, the part where Helen says being hauled aboard a liferaft by Molly Brown is pure and utter fiction. And thus I can take this as fiction just the way Jack and Tesla have been used as reference characters and twisted to be used for the purpose of the show, retaining their historical value but still fit within the storyline.


Sidenote: Did I mention that I'm a Titanic-geek?

Cool, thanks for the Titanic info! Most of what I know comes either from the movie or Connie Willis's book Passage.

I know they're not historically accurate, but I really like these bits of history in the show. Helps build the Sanctuary world as a kind of parallel one to ours.

Possible Titanic scenario. Keeping in mind that this is a compromise in regards to historical fact (but then most of Sanctuary is a compromise in regards to historical fact ).

If you look at the picture you can see a mermaids tail. A couple of possibilities arise.

1. Helen was on the Titanic to pick up a Mermaid (perhaps the one at the Sanctuary now) and as a result was not necessarily in first class but some other location on the ship. The ship sinks. The mermaid, being a very good and very fast swimmer, rescues Helen and swimming very quickly, catches up with Molly Brown's lifeboat and then Molly pulls Helen out of the water.

2. Or perhaps Helen was in 1st class but missed her chance at the lifeboats (probably too busy helping others) and ends up in the water. The mermaid who seems to have some sort of psychic or telepathic abilities in her communications with humans realizes that Helen should be saved and does so as described above.

It's the only way I can reconcile history with what Helen said in this ep and she does have a mermaid. So maybe?

I like the 1st option. Even if it wasn't Sally the mermaid, perhaps Helen was transporting an abnormal that helped push her towards Molly's lifeboat so she could be rescued.

One thing that does tweak me a bit, the more i think about it, in Eulogy, helen is chafing because big guy is 'guarding' her,



would she REALLY want will around? or would she want to sulk on her own? I'd almost see her wanting to push him away and get him out of town rather than keeping him close.

I know it works for the story, it just doesn't seem to work with how helen has been in the past

Maybe she wanted Will around rather than Bigfoot or Henry because he wouldn't have coddled her like them. In Eulogy, Will was the only one willing to get into her face about stopping her search for Ashley, and he's kinda backed off on probing how she feels since then.

I can see Will as kind of middle ground for coping for Helen, she didn't want to be coddled but she didn't want to be on her own either, so Will could be there to distract her with work or something.

[Mack_1]

Possible Titanic scenario. Keeping in mind that this is a compromise in regards to historical fact (but then most of Sanctuary is a compromise in regards to historical fact ).

If you look at the picture you can see a mermaids tail. A couple of possibilities arise.

1. Helen was on the Titanic to pick up a Mermaid (perhaps the one at the Sanctuary now) and as a result was not necessarily in first class but some other location on the ship. The ship sinks. The mermaid, being a very good and very fast swimmer, rescues Helen and swimming very quickly, catches up with Molly Brown's lifeboat and then Molly pulls Helen out of the water.

2. Or perhaps Helen was in 1st class but missed her chance at the lifeboats (probably too busy helping others) and ends up in the water. The mermaid who seems to have some sort of psychic or telepathic abilities in her communications with humans realizes that Helen should be saved and does so as described above.

It's the only way I can reconcile history with what Helen said in this ep and she does have a mermaid. So maybe?

Maybe you are on something here

I like this scenario better since this is a Sci fi show and no The History Channel; I was thinking about the same since we see the mermaid tail just as a boat is getting someone out the water. (seems to)


Totally think Helen was a first class passenger but held out helping others till the end or securing some abnormal on board. but you can clearly see she is uncomfortable thinking about that event in her life or still too trouble about it

Totally agree the Titanic tragedy is really sad.

[helenmagnus23]

I loved this eps it was so cool

I loved seeing the scorpion and squid fighting on the helecopter that was so cool boath creatures looked so scary .

I loved the interaction between Helen and Will i liked Helen's reaction to Will saying the ''Hail Mary'' i thought PARVOR NOCTURNUS straight away .

I loved it how Ashley was mentioned and that it was her birthday i could imagin how Helen felt .

The TITANIC that was so cool Magnus was on the TITANIC when it sunk wow ! i'd love to see that eps

I realy liked this eps and i liked how it ended i thought the ending was done very well

I wounder which class Helen was in onboard the TITANIC given her work would be 1st,2nd or 3rd ?

[kes]

Where did you read about this? I know that episode 10 will be called Sleepers

Spoiler:

and will be with Nikola and not John. John will appear in episode 11, as far as I know.

I hope Olaf is not as serious as it looks, I'm personally a H/N shipper, so Druitt is enough trouble for me, I don't need another baldy.

In the US ep 10 will be Tesla's story and ep 11 Druitt's story. In the UK its reversed. Ep 10 is Druitt's story and ep 11 it's Tesla's story.
Syfy switched the order of the eps.

So ah Next Tuesday lol Topic..hmm. It was fun lol

[Skydiver]

It would have been odd to me had helen NOT been upset about the titanic. If you've seen the Cameron movie, it's, well about as historically accurate as a hollywood movie can be. scenes in it were based on survivor accounts, such as the woman that heard ismay urging the captain to go faster, etc. A lot of the 'random' scenes on the boat were based on real life accounts.

and I don't know if any of us can truly imagine the utter tragedy of it all. the lack of leadership and organization, the panic, the confusion, the terror, especially once people realized that the boats were gone.

all these souls went to the deep because of human carelessness and arrogance. taking the northern route, the lookouts didn't even have binoculars, steaming full speed ahead when most of the other boats stopped for the night, not calling the alarm for about a half hour after the collision, locking and dooming steerage below so all the 'worthy' people stood a chance. the lack of life boats, the poor handling of the space taht they DID have.
They could see lights of another boat just 19 miles away, but the californian radio operator had gone to bed, so no one was awake to hear their cries for help. Once the lifeboats got away, they refused to come back until it was too late, so there were these people in the water, freezing to death, and the boats refused to help them.

the titanic was the 911 of the time, except the enemy was mother nature and human arrogance.

i don't think any of us can imagine the grief and terror and guilt these people went through. Whole families died that night.

it's obviously an experience that haunted helen for some time.

I think my only issue with it is, I love them putting helen in historical events. I think it's great. I do think, however, they need to work a bit harder to keep it plausible. If it's historical 'fact' that molly brown never pulled anyone out of the water, then don't have her pulling helen out of the water. Have it be someone anonymous.

It's kind of like the advice i give authors when they write whump fic, if you don't have the research to get your medicine at least close, then don't go into anatomical detail of how hurt the person is. Keep it vague, because the devil is in the details, and the more details you bring forth, the greater the chances that you'll get one of them wrong.

As to Olaf....stress relief. I think Helen doesn't even consider looking for a husband or life mate. I think she just 'has fun' and 'loves them and leaves them'

[kes]

It would have been odd to me had helen NOT been upset about the titanic. If you've seen the Cameron movie, it's, well about as historically accurate as a hollywood movie can be. scenes in it were based on survivor accounts, such as the woman that heard ismay urging the captain to go faster, etc. A lot of the 'random' scenes on the boat were based on real life accounts.

and I don't know if any of us can truly imagine the utter tragedy of it all. the lack of leadership and organization, the panic, the confusion, the terror, especially once people realized that the boats were gone.

all these souls went to the deep because of human carelessness and arrogance. taking the northern route, the lookouts didn't even have binoculars, steaming full speed ahead when most of the other boats stopped for the night, not calling the alarm for about a half hour after the collision, locking and dooming steerage below so all the 'worthy' people stood a chance. the lack of life boats, the poor handling of the space taht they DID have.
They could see lights of another boat just 19 miles away, but the californian radio operator had gone to bed, so no one was awake to hear their cries for help. Once the lifeboats got away, they refused to come back until it was too late, so there were these people in the water, freezing to death, and the boats refused to help them.

the titanic was the 911 of the time, except the enemy was mother nature and human arrogance.

i don't think any of us can imagine the grief and terror and guilt these people went through. Whole families died that night.

it's obviously an experience that haunted helen for some time.

I think my only issue with it is, I love them putting helen in historical events. I think it's great. I do think, however, they need to work a bit harder to keep it plausible. If it's historical 'fact' that molly brown never pulled anyone out of the water, then don't have her pulling helen out of the water. Have it be someone anonymous.

It's kind of like the advice i give authors when they write whump fic, if you don't have the research to get your medicine at least close, then don't go into anatomical detail of how hurt the person is. Keep it vague, because the devil is in the details, and the more details you bring forth, the greater the chances that you'll get one of them wrong.

As to Olaf....stress relief. I think Helen doesn't even consider looking for a husband or life mate. I think she just 'has fun' and 'loves them and leaves them'

I think DK just tossed a name everyone would recognise. Plus serioulsy, is there anyone here that didnt picture the awesomeness that is Kathy Bates when she said Molly Brown lol

[sandra-carter]

Where did you read about this? I know that episode 10 will be called Sleepers

Spoiler:

and will be with Nikola and not John. John will appear in episode 11, as far as I know.

I hope Olaf is not as serious as it looks, I'm personally a H/N shipper, so Druitt is enough trouble for me, I don't need another baldy.

The episode "Haunted" will be displayed in the UK, the USA is displayed in the "sleepers" by giving the reverse order in each of the countries .. so we get two episodes on Friday ... just do not know if will be released to the web ... I hope so

is what we see in episode Magnus / Druitt

Spoiler:

Dr Helen Magnus (Amanda Tapping) and her team rescue the passengers and crew of a sinking ship off the coast of South Africa and teleport them back to the Sanctuary for medical treatment. But when one of the peaceful refugees is brutally murdered, all eyes turn to Druitt (Christopher Heyerdahl). Magnus confronts Druitt, knowing that something has been awakened in him that is driving him to act on his murderous instincts. When Druitt takes off down the hallway, Magnus needs help from Kate (Agam Darshi) to stun him and stop him in his tracks.

The Sanctuary’s power systems start to experience a series of electrical fluctuations and surges, and Henry (Ryan Robbins) gets to work to stabilise them. But as Will (Robin Dunne) leaves the operating room, the door suddenly slams shut behind him. At the same time, Kate and Bigfoot, who are en route to check on the Abnormal containment area, are jolted to a stop in the elevator, trapped between floors. Magnus has secured Druitt in a containment cell where he recovers, handcuffed, and still weak from his ordeal. Just as the others experienced, the doors suddenly slam shut, locking them in the cell together, Druitt still trying to resist his urge to kill. Cut off from the others and with no power, Henry frantically tries to reboot the computer system and figure out what has caused the Sanctuary to take control.
(source: sanctuary spoiler zone)

site: sanctuary spoiler zone ... is awesome go and see

[meredithchandler73]

I think DK just tossed a name everyone would recognise. Plus serioulsy, is there anyone here that didnt picture the awesomeness that is Kathy Bates when she said Molly Brown lol

Actually, I always picture Debbie Reynolds when I think of Molly Brown (as in the movie musical The Unsinkable Molly Brown) but that's partly because I adore movie musicals and haven't seen Titanic too many times.

[Skydiver]

Let's remember to tag spoilers for future episodes please. This is for discussion of Next Tuesday and behind (so to speak) not what's to come

[jckfan55]

I do kinda think that it is an example of the name dropping going a bit too far. Helen could have just said 'i was one of very few that came out of the water...alive' and leave molly out of it.

Or what might have been more interesting:
Will could have said: "Molly Brown?" and Helen could say: "Never met her."

[Skydiver]

that woulda been perfect. keep up the mystery.

she goes 'never met her'
'you were on teh titanic and didn't meet molly brown?'
"It was the biggest ship in the world at the time, and besides, i had far more important things to do than glad hand'

and furthers helen's mystery (although, honestly, at the time, molly brown was nothing but an upstart 'commoner' that had the audacity to marry wealthy and didn't shyly sit in a corner like 'proper' ladies. she was loud and brash and seemed to be rather amused by all the snobbery tossed her way)

[ddc]

The Hail Mary is a call back to Pavor Nocturnus.

Hail Mary as Will uses the term comes from football, a long pass, usualy as a last resort, thus the name (the QB basically praying it will work).

I think that there's no way for there to have been corroboration of helen's story. The names of survivors is relatively well known (although, if you saw the movie Titanic, it really was that easy to become someone else, photo id's didn't even exist, and i don't think social security numbers did either, you were who you said you were)

Social Security started in the early 30's, so no SSN's in 1912. And passports were just papers with official seals describing the person, no photos.

[Skydiver]

so helen magnus could have said she was anyone, and the only way she'd be 'caught' is if someone from her past caught up with her.

TONS of people emigrated and made new identities for themselves. That's why emigration was often seen as a fresh start...you came and became who you wanted to be and that was it

In the Cameron movie when we saw Rose give her name as Rose Dawson, she turned her back on her past and became someone else, and it was as easy as giving a name. Especially in a disaster like that, it's not reasonable for anyone to have grabbed and kept their ID. I'm sure some did, but most did not (not that you had passports as much as identification papers)

[Falcon Horus]

Re: Titanic--I don't care about the historical correctness of the Molly Brown rescue.

I do. Sometimes to keep it plausible, you need to stick to the truth in history or what is known about it.

And this is such a case as far as I am concerned. Could be just me, but when looking at Skydiver's replies, I don't think I'm the only one.

Possible Titanic scenario. Keeping in mind that this is a compromise in regards to historical fact (but then most of Sanctuary is a compromise in regards to historical fact ).

If you look at the picture you can see a mermaids tail. A couple of possibilities arise.

1. Helen was on the Titanic to pick up a Mermaid (perhaps the one at the Sanctuary now) and as a result was not necessarily in first class but some other location on the ship. The ship sinks. The mermaid, being a very good and very fast swimmer, rescues Helen and swimming very quickly, catches up with Molly Brown's lifeboat and then Molly pulls Helen out of the water.

2. Or perhaps Helen was in 1st class but missed her chance at the lifeboats (probably too busy helping others) and ends up in the water. The mermaid who seems to have some sort of psychic or telepathic abilities in her communications with humans realizes that Helen should be saved and does so as described above.

It's the only way I can reconcile history with what Helen said in this ep and she does have a mermaid. So maybe?

YESSSSSSS!!!! Fanfic? Please? *big pleading smile with puppy-dog eyes* If you can... maybe... possibly? ANYONE?

or...history is often written the way people WANT it to be written. so if helen was 'saved' by some 'angel of the deep' the traumatized and shocked members of the boat could have been sworn to secrecy. as long as they all told the same story, whatever the told became the 'truth'

Oh, yes... more fanfic...

but IF she was ferrying an abnormal, anything could have helped her. not to mention her own longevity giving her a heads up in surviving hypothermia. In water that cold, you freeze to death and die in less than half an hour, possibly as little as 15 minutes

Hypothermia, leading to suffocation, and death... It was painless but cold.

But I see that your point is that anyone saying they were 'hauled aboard a liferaft by Molly Brown' would be pure and utter fiction...

Try reading that in regards to the Titanic historical facts-part, and you don't miss my point entirely.

If you've seen the Cameron movie, it's, well about as historically accurate as a hollywood movie can be.

A true blockbuster...

...scenes in it were based on survivor accounts, such as the woman that heard ismay urging the captain to go faster, etc. A lot of the 'random' scenes on the boat were based on real life accounts.

And a few stuff things that weren't possible at all in that day and age, plus the few ... err... mistakes.

the titanic was the 911 of the time, except the enemy was mother nature and human arrogance.

And a lot of bad luck...

it's obviously an experience that haunted helen for some time.

Mmmm.... fanfic anyone?

I think my only issue with it is, I love them putting helen in historical events. I think it's great. I do think, however, they need to work a bit harder to keep it plausible. If it's historical 'fact' that molly brown never pulled anyone out of the water, then don't have her pulling helen out of the water. Have it be someone anonymous.

Second that.

As to Olaf....stress relief. I think Helen doesn't even consider looking for a husband or life mate. I think she just 'has fun' and 'loves them and leaves them'

*falls into shaft, straight down into the gutter*

I think DK just tossed a name everyone would recognise. Plus serioulsy, is there anyone here that didnt picture the awesomeness that is Kathy Bates when she said Molly Brown lol

A fraction of a second...

...molly brown was nothing but an upstart 'commoner' that had the audacity to marry wealthy and didn't shyly sit in a corner like 'proper' ladies. she was loud and brash and seemed to be rather amused by all the snobbery tossed her way...

Would have loved to have met her.