The Depths (411)

[majorsal]

Love it how Henry is always the one to make a reference to Tesla in Tesla-less eps this season!

Is there a reason for Helen kissing Will on his right cheek? I think kissing a person on their left cheek is more common for a right-handed person. Like crossing the legs with the right leg over the left leg, actually. But we saw in Chimera that Helen crosses her legs like a left-handed person, too Anybody remembers whether Carter/Helen/AT aim with the right eye? Maybe AT is a right-handed person with the dominant left leg, lol

i think b/c the camera set up, b/c if she'd kissed his right cheek, you couldn't have been able to see both their reactions to it. of course, the camera could have been done on the other side, but anyways...

[fems]

And this way she wouldn't have to lean over him and his injury.

[majorsal]

But you know, at least she had the decency to seem shocked at her own behavior. Will never once apologized, even when he was on the good side of a dose. Kinda makes you wonder how bitter he really is, and for how long he's been letting himself stew in his own juices...

yeah...

[xgfan]

And I don't buy that it was all the water either.

Neither do I. Because it's not the first time he has behaved that way, especially in Fugue.

Gillian on twitter is defending him and it makes me really, really wonder how the writers see the character and where they're going with him. If there is some bigger plan behind it all or if they genuinely think that he's doing the perfectly right thing because Helen "needs to be reminded she is not infallible".
I really don't understand it.

[majorsal]

Neither do I. Because it's not the first time he has behaved that way, especially in Fugue.

Gillian on twitter is defending him and it makes me really, really wonder how the writers see the character and where they're going with him. If there is some bigger plan behind it all or if they genuinely think that he's doing the perfectly right thing because Helen "needs to be reminded she is not infallible".
I really don't understand it.

i read that on twitter too. i was afterwards

[jckfan55]

Neither do I. Because it's not the first time he has behaved that way, especially in Fugue.

Gillian on twitter is defending him and it makes me really, really wonder how the writers see the character and where they're going with him. If there is some bigger plan behind it all or if they genuinely think that he's doing the perfectly right thing because Helen "needs to be reminded she is not infallible".
I really don't understand it.

There may have been times when Magnus is high handed, but stuff I've seen lately hasn't necessarily fit that. The writers may think they're showing Will as more of an equal, but what I've seen is petulant, judgmental and in this episode cruel Will.

Oh, and when Will says something about her maintaining a distance with everyone in this ep. And also in past eps when he's had a problem with her "secrets." to some extent I think if he really were her friend he'd respect her privacy a bit. If it's not related to the mission he doesn't always need to know.

And another thing... When Will says Magnus is surrounded by people who would do anything for her (or follow her anywhere--something like that)--it's pretty hard to put Will in that number.
He's a far cry from the guy who refused to believe Magnus shot Biggie in Veritas. now he'd probably lock her up himself.

[Skydiver]

I'm gonna toss this out there.


I know will is annoying...but is it possible that people are almost going out of their way to find things wrong about him? Like you're (the general you're) looking for him to annoy you, looking not to like him, letting him bug you beyond what you'd let someone else bug you.

Don't get me wrong, he annoys me too....but do we have to go on and on about it every week?

no, i'm not telling you that you can't. I'm not saying that any POV isn't welcome. What I am just wondering if there's a bit of a mob mentality going on as it pertains to will.

[iJOKE]

Magnus isnt immortal. She died right in the 1st season. She ages slowly, very slowly.
Please Twilight is no source of vampire knowledge. Its anything but!

Really?? I thought she could live MANY lifetimes..ahh, (http://sanctuary.wikia.com/wiki/Longevity) Longevity!
Lol. I know. Twilight.. is ridiculous garbage.

[RealmOfX]

I'm gonna toss this out there.


I know will is annoying...but is it possible that people are almost going out of their way to find things wrong about him? Like you're (the general you're) looking for him to annoy you, looking not to like him, letting him bug you beyond what you'd let someone else bug you.

Don't get me wrong, he annoys me too....but do we have to go on and on about it every week?

no, i'm not telling you that you can't. I'm not saying that any POV isn't welcome. What I am just wondering if there's a bit of a mob mentality going on as it pertains to will.

I don't think there is mob mentality going on here Sky. Most of the posts have been well reasoned and thought out. The writers do seem to have a problem with how they are presenting Will.

[Abnormal]

I don't understand why you're all so harsh on Will... I thought he was very good in this episode. And as much as I love Magnus, I think he's got a point. Many times she realized she had put everyone in danger after the harm was done. She's like that, and sometimes she regrets she didn't think twice about involving her friends in desperate situations, I'm sure of that. It doesn't make her a bad person, only an impulsive one (sometimes). There were also times when I thought she gave too much importance to the survival of abnormals and not enough to the team, but then again she didn't mean it and realized it after everything came back to normal.

I think what Will said about having one lifetime was touching and revealing of how much it becomes hard for him to work at the Sanctuary. To me, the only reason why he doesn't quit is Magnus: she's become like a mother to him and she helped him find his marks in life when he had almost none.

Contrarily to almost all the previous episodes this season in which he was being childish and ridiculous, I've found him much more mature and interesting since Chimera.

My opinion...

[RealmOfX]

I don't understand why you're all so harsh on Will... I thought he was very good in this episode. And as much as I love Magnus, I think he's got a point. Many times she realized she had put everyone in danger after the harm was done. She's like that, and sometimes she regrets she didn't think twice about involving her friends in desperate situations, I'm sure of that. It doesn't make her a bad person, only an impulsive one (sometimes). There were also times when I thought she gave too much importance to the survival of abnormals and not enough to the team, but then again she didn't mean it and realized it after everything came back to normal.

I think what Will said about having one lifetime was touching and revealing of how much it becomes hard for him to work at the Sanctuary. To me, the only reason why he doesn't quit is Magnus: she's become like a mother to him and she helped him find his marks in life when he had almost none.

Contrarily to almost all the previous episodes this season in which he was being childish and ridiculous, I've found him much more mature and interesting since Chimera.

My opinion...

Well I don't think everyone's being harsh with Will, we're being told that this man is fit to take over the Sanctuary Network but then they continually show us how he is not.

Unfortunately there is nothing mature about Will this season (nor, in my opinion, most of the previous seasons either). Whilst I do understand that anyone with as much power as Magnus wields, needs to have an advisory voice of reason on their team to provide counter balance when needed, that however is not what Will is doing nor has he done so in the past. The writers have been using the Will character as a plot device since Season 1 instead of presenting a solid character building all the necessary skills and understanding to take a position within the Sanctuary. What we get with Will is melodrama rather than drama.

I think it is fine to call out Magnus when she's making a bad move but she wasn't here nor was she when she saved Abby's life. Nor was she back in Vigilante when we had the misfortune to have another of Will's dummy spits because he doesn't know everything about Magnus. They have Will react like a self centred, immature teenager who thinks the world revolves around him instead of like the intelligent, empathetic and brilliant psychiatrist they tell us he is supposed to be.

To be a Sanctuary leader you need to have extensive knowledge, highly developed organisational skills, good political savvy, the ability to lead people (people being an all inclusive term of intelligent beings), the ability to understand people and show compassion, to see the big picture as well as what is happening right now, to be proactive rather than reactive. My problem with Will is that they haven't shown him to have these skills or being in the process of developing them. He's always reactive and usually in an immature teenager fashion and for all of his much vaunted physchiatry/observational skills he continually shows that he hasn't a clue about who Magnus is nor is he very supportive. Instead of working through a problem reasonably he attacks and pouts and moans and whinges. I certainly wouldn't want him on my team.

I guess the thing that really irks me about Will is that it wouldn't take much to write him as a great character. Show me he has the skill to be a Sanctuary leader, don't tell me he is and then show me otherwise.

I could forgive most of Will's actions in this episode as being caused by the water however that last scene shows precisely why the man is not fit to be a Sanctuary leader or Magnus' protege.

[Chelle DB]

Oh not another Helen/Will stranded episode. I hate those with a vengeance Why can't Helen be stranded with Henry for a change

Personally, I'd like to see Helen stranded alone...& I don't mean like in Monsoon but alone alone! Or with Tesla or John.

[Chelle DB]

I can't believe he's still whining at Helen about the way she saved Abby's life. What a jerk.
I couldn't believe that Will no longer wants to be Helen's protégé, but wants to be her partner. Partner! There's no way he is partner material. Declan has more experience working with the Sanctuary than Will, plus he doesn't whine.

I think that if Will were to ever become a partner in the Sanctuary Network then I would be convinced that Helen has totally lost her marbles. That would be just plain ludicrous. Will is not leadership material. He's proved that time & time again. He is far too emotional & doesn't know how to think.
I don't know if I am going to enjoy the last two eps at all. In fact, if season 5 does go ahead, and they continue writing Will & Abbey they way they have thus far, I wouldn't be putting money on a 6th season. I'm starting to get tired of it. And it takes a lot for me to say that. This from someone who actually enjoyed seasons 9 & 10 of SG1.

[KayLyne]

I know will is annoying...but is it possible that people are almost going out of their way to find things wrong about him? Like you're (the general you're) looking for him to annoy you, looking not to like him, letting him bug you beyond what you'd let someone else bug you.

For me, it's the exact opposite. I'm trying to find things RIGHT/GOOD about him, because he's really become grumpy/whiny/b!tchy/annoying as the season goes on. I understood that part of his attitude in this one was due to the withdrawl symptoms. I thought he'd redeem himself a bit at the end of this one, and then instead of being sympathetic/nice to Magnus, he gives her the "I want to be partners" statement, with no hint of apology for anything he's done. And, who knows, maybe I'll even be holding a bigger grudge against him for his non-repentance of all the harsh comments he spouted in this one, and behaving even more like the rebellious "It's all about me" teenager he's turned into. I would just like some semblance of the objective, adult-mannered, non-judgemental profiler with something resembling a heart that we saw in previous seasons. It seems that in this entire show, Will is the only one who - at least this season - is not acting like an adult.

Anyway...
as I'm rewatching this episode again - I'm wondering about the SCIU/Sanctuary connections. At the beginning, Henry was able to get the SCIU information via Tesla's "little leftover presents" in the computer, so would Nikola be tracking the Sanctuary's movements in the same way? And Moran's statement "he said you'd say that" - is that reference also to Nikola and that they knew the Sanctuary team was coming?

[Chelle DB]

did you see that hurt look she had after she said to wil that he'd have to trust her, and all she got back was a stone face.

That's not all I saw. There's definitely something I'm not liking about Will at the moment. And to be honest, it creeps me out. The way the series is going makes me uncomfortable.

There may have been times when Magnus is high handed, but stuff I've seen lately hasn't necessarily fit that. The writers may think they're showing Will as more of an equal, but what I've seen is petulant, judgmental and in this episode cruel Will.
And another thing... When Will says Magnus is surrounded by people who would do anything for her (or follow her anywhere--something like that)--it's pretty hard to put Will in that number.
He's a far cry from the guy who refused to believe Magnus shot Biggie in Veritas. now he'd probably lock her up himself.

Well said. The only thing Will seems to be doing for Magnus lately is making her life miserable. I know Amanda said this was going to be a dark season but this isn't dark to me,...just sad & having me say wtf??

I'm gonna toss this out there.
I know will is annoying...but is it possible that people are almost going out of their way to find things wrong about him? Like you're (the general you're) looking for him to annoy you, looking not to like him, letting him bug you beyond what you'd let someone else bug you.
Don't get me wrong, he annoys me too....but do we have to go on and on about it every week?
no, i'm not telling you that you can't. I'm not saying that any POV isn't welcome. What I am just wondering if there's a bit of a mob mentality going on as it pertains to will.

Nope...certainly not from me. Up until Fugue, I actually liked the guy. Now, I'm begining to wonder what the heck the writers are doing with Will.

I don't think there is mob mentality going on here Sky. Most of the posts have been well reasoned and thought out. The writers do seem to have a problem with how they are presenting Will.

Bingo!

So many what if's are being put out there which has been great to read about but even with all the what if's, I'm just not feeling the Sanctuary love in me. I don't like the direction most of the charcaters have gone. I adore Kate and Declan and think they are the only ones that seem to have escaped whatever it is that the writers have been doing to futz up the others. Even Helen is different but at least with Helen, I can understand why.
Tesla is delicious as always...no worries there. But the way Will, Abbey, Biggie & the FBI dude have been writtin has me scratching my head.
Here's hoping the last scene in the last episode proves to be worth the suffering. Apparently that's when all is revealed...according to Amanda.