Helen Magnus/John Druitt Ship/Discussion/Appreciation

[AresLover452]

I'm such a shipper and fangirl. I want Helen and John together and somewhat happy, well less morbid together.

[yessika]

I'm such a shipper and fangirl. I want Helen and John together and somewhat happy, well less morbid together.

Oh but our ship is soo angsty I can't see that happening any time soon

[AresLover452]

Oh but our ship is soo angsty I can't see that happening any time soon

I know.... *sigh* Love than angst don't get me wrong. I love the angst. I just want him around more... lol!!

[JenniferJF]

S3 speculation, slight spoilers through S2:

Spoiler:

I would love to have Ashley and John's return to coincide. that would be awesome to see Helen deal with that. On one hand having to cure John and on the other having overwhelming joy for Ashley's return.

I would love to see that, too. In fact, it would be interesting if there was a set-up wherein getting Ashley back and ridding the creature from John could somehow be tied together.. Which isn't a far flung idea, as the creature is from the energy void between teleports and Ashley could Very Well be there now herself... One could either be part of the solution to the other (as in, Ashley's presence in the void might help get the creature out of John), or in fact, one might have to be sacrificed for the other (Helen must choose *whether* to get Ashley back or free John). Being a fan of angst, I quite like the latter idea. Sofie's Choice, anyone?

Though, really, there's only one solution to that dilemma.

[Nynaeve506]

S3 speculation, slight spoilers through S2:

Spoiler:

I would love to see that, too. In fact, it would be interesting if there was a set-up wherein getting Ashley back and ridding the creature from John could somehow be tied together.. Which isn't a far flung idea, as the creature is from the energy void between teleports and Ashley could Very Well be there now herself... One could either be part of the solution to the other (as in, Ashley's presence in the void might help get the creature out of John), or in fact, one might have to be sacrificed for the other (Helen must choose *whether* to get Ashley back or free John). Being a fan of angst, I quite like the latter idea. Sofie's Choice, anyone?

Though, really, there's only one solution to that dilemma.

S.3 speculation w/ S.2 spoilers

Spoiler:

Or here's an extra angsty solution - she gets Ashley back but the creature leaves John and goes into her instead! *gasp* *shock* *angst*

[JenniferJF]

S.3 speculation w/ S.2 spoilers

Spoiler:

Or here's an extra angsty solution - she gets Ashley back but the creature leaves John and goes into her instead! *gasp* *shock* *angst*

or...

Spoiler:

Ashley, in the void, realizes as she sees John flitting back and forth that she can take out the creature as he teleports and does so.. only to be trapped forever herself containing it within the void.

Though I grant you, your idea has much more dramatic possibilities for the future of the show and allows them to get Ashley back recurring.

[Nynaeve506]

or...

Spoiler:

Ashley, in the void, realizes as she sees John flitting back and forth that she can take out the creature as he teleports and does so.. only to be trapped forever herself containing it within the void.

Though I grant you, your idea has much more dramatic possibilities for the future of the show and allows them to get Ashley back recurring.

I just can't help but...

Spoiler:

love bad ass Ashley. She's got such great sarcasm that I feel like she could be painfully cold to Helen and it would push John and Helen together - but I think they'd still have a barrier within them because how can you feel grateful to have John back when it cost you your daughter? Guilt in spades.

[JenniferJF]

I just can't help but...

Spoiler:

love bad ass Ashley. She's got such great sarcasm that I feel like she could be painfully cold to Helen and it would push John and Helen together - but I think they'd still have a barrier within them because how can you feel grateful to have John back when it cost you your daughter? Guilt in spades.

And imagine John's.. ya thought he was angsty before?!?

[AresLover452]

S.3 speculation w/ S.2 spoilers

Spoiler:

Or here's an extra angsty solution - she gets Ashley back but the creature leaves John and goes into her instead! *gasp* *shock* *angst*

that would be a kick in the head.. but good.

[ann_sgcfan]

Haunted:

Spoiler:

Exactly. I don't think we do - hardly. Except for what we see in those few moments in Haunted. And possibly some of the flashback in Kush. The rest is trying to guess from what we've seen of him what parts are *him* and what parts are the creature. I just really think the point of Haunted was to show, based on what John says and does and Helen;s reactions and words in responses to him that the John we *thought* we knew wasn't really 'her' John at all.

Or, as AT herself said in recent article: "I think you finally see why Helen fell in love with this man in the first place," Amanda Tapping, who plays Helen, said over the phone on Monday. "You get a hint of the depth of their love and the trust, and his passion and intelligence. He was at one point and time a gentle soul, and you can sort of see a bit of that." Which I think sort of supports the whole 'the creature was the source of his rage' theory, though I think it was made fairly clear on the show.

Sorry I haven't had time to read all the posts, so forgive me if I repeat what anyone else may have said.
Haunted -

Spoiler:

I do agree, I think the John we thought we knew up till this episode, we don't really know at all. Sorry but I do kind of shake my head at the writing. They seemed to lead us down one road only to change course. I hope they continue on this course and not waver back and forth.

I hope they can expand on John and Helen's relationship back when the Five was developed and also how she discovered he was JtR. Because she also lost her father sometime after the development of the Five and prior to Helen's discovery of JtR. The angst of losing her father and finance so close to one another has to be one of the most difficult times of her life.

I do wonder if John knew something was happening to him. Did he try to warn Helen? Was it a slow process that John really thought he was going insane? There are more questions than answer regarding John right now... and I hope they continue to explore his character, but also keeping in mind the development in S1 as well. He told Watson he lost the taste for the sport in 1888 (hence the killings stopped), so he must have succumb to some sort of electrical shock for that to have happened according to Haunted, since that seems to be what disables the creature. I'm still interested in knowing where was John between 1888 and present time.

I wonder if Helen will second guess herself now that she knows what really caused John's madness - she thought John's power was driving him mad and now that she knows it was the creature will she investigate the more aggressive abnormals differently? Will she try to find a way to kill the creature that has held John captive for so long? Will John's killing spree continue?

I do feel better about Helen's judgment - she didn't fall in love with a man that was mad along, but instead to a gentle, intelligent, and self sacrificing man. I always thought it was odd that John was the only one of the Five that turned out evil. True Tesla is bent on controlling the world, but I think that's more his ego than anything purely evil.

The other misconception (and yes I believed it to be true too until this eppy) seems to be that Ashley inherited her killer instincts from her father, but this episode makes that theory null and void, since John's is not the killer, the creature is. So I agree with whoever said Ashley must have gotten it from Helen. So maybe mother and daughter were more alike than they thought.

[shel]

Made another Helen/John sig

[Nynaeve506]

Haunted:

Spoiler:

I do agree, I think the John we thought we knew up till this episode, we don't really know at all. Sorry but I do kind of shake my head at the writing. They seemed to lead us down one road only to change course. I hope they continue on this course and not waver back and forth.

That's a little how I feel. So I think I'll feel better about it once I see how it plays out.

I do wonder if John knew something was happening to him. Did he try to warn Helen? Was it a slow process that John really thought he was going insane? There are more questions than answer regarding John right now... and I hope they continue to explore his character, but also keeping in mind the development in S1 as well. He told Watson he lost the taste for the sport in 1888 (hence the killings stopped), so he must have succumb to some sort of electrical shock for that to have happened according to Haunted, since that seems to be what disables the creature. I'm still interested in knowing where was John between 1888 and present time.

I don't think he stopped killing entirely (perhaps I'm wrong on this?) - what I'd like to think is that John managed to use that inner strength of his to control the creature. I too wonder what he blamed it on. Did he blame in on the source blood? That seems to be what Helen blamed it on - that he had some latent murderous tendencies and the source blood brought it out in him. It could very well be that he continued to kill but instead of whores he just sort of flitted around. He's the one character we know very little about - most of his comings and goings are a real mystery between 1888 and the present day.

The other misconception (and yes I believed it to be true too until this eppy) seems to be that Ashley inherited her killer instincts from her father, but this episode makes that theory null and void, since John's is not the killer, the creature is. So I agree with whoever said Ashley must have gotten it from Helen. So maybe mother and daughter were more alike than they thought.

Jenn brought that point up and I've come to agree. I don't think she has "killer instincts" so much as she's passionate about what she does. Instead of murderous tendencies she actually inherited her father's strength allowing her to make the ultimate sacrifice in order to ensure that her mother and her mother's work continue. It put our understanding of Ashley and John on it's head - Helen for the first time in many many years has to reevaluate what she thought she knew.

[JenniferJF]

Haunted spoilers:

Spoiler:

The other misconception (and yes I believed it to be true too until this eppy) seems to be that Ashley inherited her killer instincts from her father, but this episode makes that theory null and void, since John's is not the killer, the creature is. So I agree with whoever said Ashley must have gotten it from Helen. So maybe mother and daughter were more alike than they thought.

A friend pointed out to me while we were discussing this very idea - that it was ironically strength and self-sacrificing love which Ashley inherited from John - that, as much of a change as it is for us to wrap our head around this, how much more must it be not only for Helen, but even more so for John himself. For over a century he's believed it was some weakness in him that allowed the rage to turn to murder - or even that the rage came from within him called out by the source blood. But now he's learned that he was almost literally hijacked by this creature which destroyed his life and took from him everything he most treasured and used him as a puppet to wreak chaos and havoc and that, rather than being a villain, as Helen said at the very end of the episode, in fact he was a hero for keeping it at bay as well as he did.

We might feel like we don't know John, or what parts of Ashley were John, but how much more awful must it be for the characters themselves.

As for the events in 1888, John didn't say he stopped murdering in 1888 because he'd lost the taste for the sport, but James asked why he'd moved the 7th body (which was the second to the last assuming Molly's was the last murder before Helen shot at him) to a different location - why John's profile had changed. And John's answer was that perhaps he'd lost the taste for the sport. Which is still interesting and which we have no canon reason for, and which an electric shock doesn't really explain ... Though I incorporated it into my own story of that time period (which is why I remember that detail in the first place lol)

[AresLover452]

Even serial killers take breaks between their last kill and when they start up again. I'm sure John was no different and I'm sure Helen triedto keep and eye on suspicious deaths around the world.

[helenmagnus23]

Originally Posted by Nynaeve506
S.3 speculation w/ S.2 spoilers

Spoiler:

Or here's an extra angsty solution - she gets Ashley back but the creature leaves John and goes into her instead! *gasp* *shock* *angst*

That would be very cool and very interesting to see Nynaeve506

Ashley

Spoiler:

It would latch onto her becase she shares the same gift as Druitt very but could she control it as well or would it fully consume her ?

Originally posted by AresLover452
I just hope Helen ends up cutting John some slack some time down the road.

I hope so to Ares, Helen has been in a similer situation like in Requim & Veritas it would be good if she could forgive him alittle

S3

Spoiler:

I've been thinking what if Tesla and Henry come up with a device to supres the entity inside John like in Pennance when that abnormal had major anger issues what if a simmiler thing can be done for John ?

I've put that into one of my stories the Parvor Nocturnus story