Helen Magnus/John Druitt Ship/Discussion/Appreciation

[yessika]

Onthe back of my shirt it says, "It goes so slow!"

lmao!

I finished one homework, that's good enough, no?

[AresLover452]

Very Good!

You should reward yourself with Magnett!! ol!

[yessika]

Very Good!

You should reward yourself with Magnett!! ol!

I agree!

As soon as I come back from class. Later!

[AresLover452]

Later! Think Magnett Thoughts!!

[Thieves]

Yessika you should definitely reward yourself with magnett

[AresLover452]

lol!! Magnett is the best reward!

[LadyGalaxyJ]

*pokes head in for first time*

I've never come in here, but I think it's time I did. I really like this pairing. And I firmly beleive that they still love another.

Hey, Padme, welcome! Hope you'll stay around.
The episode attracted lots of newcomers. I'm happy.

Spoiler:

You could so tell she still loves him in the last ep. Her reaction to finding out he's alive, the fact that she went after him, and layed down next him and put his arm around her.

I feel she forgave him for what he did a long time ago, especially now that she knows it wasn't him that comminted the Ripper murders. And I also feel that he took the entity back in to save her above anything.

Spoiler:

I can't wait to see what he'll do to make sure she lives now.

About that scene - yes again... We will never talk enough about it until the next episode airs. ;P I'll share with you what I just told Em on msn.

Spoiler:

We were saying that Helen looked scared. Scared by herself I believe - at what she is feeling and is not supposed to feel. I strongly think she's afraid of falling in love with him again. I think that's where the look on her face comes from when she ponders whether she should lie next to him or not. You know - can she really allow herself to be THAT worried about him, again? After evrything he's done? Must be pretty scary to ponder on thoughts like these.

What do you guys think? What is the look on her face before/after? Since there are no words exchanged.

I must resist temptation to work on my Magnett vids and concentrate on homework, I don't think I can do it

I'm afraid I can't resist mine any longer. *sigh*

[ClassicCouples]

Still working on my review of FK&C . . . and had a question for all of you:

Spoiler:

Does anyone have any thoughts about Helen and John's conversation on the bridge? I don't know how they think that they can continue on with their lives, considering what he has done. John sounded very sarcastic when he talks about the cottage by the sea. And Helen, despite the fact that she says she can never forgive him, and she can't forgive herself (great place to have a relationship - someone on here mentioned that theirs was a relationship built on self-punishment - I agree), sounds like things will be fine. Maybe John was more in control of his demon at this point, but he still was a murderer. The only thing I can think of is that when John says "dance", he means the beginning of her hunt for him. I don't know. Thoughts, anyone? I have included the conversation:

J: Just so you know, I’ve forgiven you for shooting me.
H: Just tell me the killing has stopped.
J: So, we’re returning to lying to one another.
H: Once this is over. When we find Adam…
J: You and I will settle down in a quaint little cottage by the sea, and I’ll write poetry. Sonnets, perhaps.
H: As much as I can never forgive you for what you’ve done, I can never forgive myself for not seeing it sooner.
J: When this is over you and I will begin our dance, and you…
H: Count on it.

[Artie]

Still working on my review of FK&C . . . and had a question for all of you:

Spoiler:

Does anyone have any thoughts about Helen and John's conversation on the bridge? I don't know how they think that they can continue on with their lives, considering what he has done. John sounded very sarcastic when he talks about the cottage by the sea. And Helen, despite the fact that she says she can never forgive him, and she can't forgive herself (great place to have a relationship - someone on here mentioned that theirs was a relationship built on self-punishment - I agree), sounds like things will be fine. Maybe John was more in control of his demon at this point, but he still was a murderer. The only thing I can think of is that when John says "dance", he means the beginning of her hunt for him. I don't know. Thoughts, anyone? I have included the conversation:

J: Just so you know, I’ve forgiven you for shooting me.
H: Just tell me the killing has stopped.
J: So, we’re returning to lying to one another.
H: Once this is over. When we find Adam…
J: You and I will settle down in a quaint little cottage by the sea, and I’ll write poetry. Sonnets, perhaps.
H: As much as I can never forgive you for what you’ve done, I can never forgive myself for not seeing it sooner.
J: When this is over you and I will begin our dance, and you…
H: Count on it.

Spoiler:

I think you're right that John is being sarcastic. He knows they can't go on with their lives. (Much as some part of him might want to.) And Helen, quite understandably, can't put aside that he murdered and mutilated those women. The Ripper isn't just famous as a killer, but for the absolutely grotesque mutilation of corpses in a very sexual way. I don't think she can put that out of her mind at this point, even for a moment. And to know that at the same time he was doing these horriffic things she was conceiving a child with him?

I think that's what she means by not forgiving herself for not seeing it sooner. Maybe if she'd realized what was happening earlier she could have prevented some of the murders.

I think you're right that when he says "our dance" he means her hunt to bring him to justice. As Adam says later in the water, "She'll never stop hunting for you." And John says, "I hope not." It's all he's got left. He will at least have her attention if she continues to hunt for him. (Which she doesn't, right? At some point between 1910 and the present, she's stopped. I wonder why.)

[ClassicCouples]

Spoiler:

I think you're right that John is being sarcastic. He knows they can't go on with their lives. (Much as some part of him might want to.) And Helen, quite understandably, can't put aside that he murdered and mutilated those women. The Ripper isn't just famous as a killer, but for the absolutely grotesque mutilation of corpses in a very sexual way. I don't think she can put that out of her mind at this point, even for a moment. And to know that at the same time he was doing these horriffic things she was conceiving a child with him?

I think that's what she means by not forgiving herself for not seeing it sooner. Maybe if she'd realized what was happening earlier she could have prevented some of the murders.

I think you're right that when he says "our dance" he means her hunt to bring him to justice. As Adam says later in the water, "She'll never stop hunting for you." And John says, "I hope not." It's all he's got left. He will at least have her attention if she continues to hunt for him. (Which she doesn't, right? At some point between 1910 and the present, she's stopped. I wonder why.)

That totally makes sense.

Spoiler:

When I first saw it, I was so confused, and thought that I was losing my it! I guess I just needed to take a break from analyzing it. Been working on my review for the ep for hours now (and I already had the rough draft done), but it doesn't help that there is a Rizzoli & Isles marathon on!! Gotta take advantage of a good show being on, especially when Sanctuary isn't on. Anyway, I am glad that you agree with what I said.

[LadyGalaxyJ]

I deconstructed the order of your post CC, but here are my thoughts.

Spoiler:

I have included the conversation:

J: Just so you know, I’ve forgiven you for shooting me.
H: Just tell me the killing has stopped.
J: So, we’re returning to lying to one another.
H: Once this is over. When we find Adam…
J: You and I will settle down in a quaint little cottage by the sea, and I’ll write poetry. Sonnets, perhaps.
H: As much as I can never forgive you for what you’ve done, I can never forgive myself for not seeing it sooner.
J: When this is over you and I will begin our dance, and you…
H: Count on it.

Spoiler:

Didn't John say "When this is over, you and I will begin our dance anew." I might be wrong, English is not my first language, but that's what I heard. And I think it fits with their history, the atmosphere and everything. o.ô

Spoiler:

Does anyone have any thoughts about Helen and John's conversation on the bridge? I don't know how they think that they can continue on with their lives, considering what he has done. John sounded very sarcastic when he talks about the cottage by the sea.

Spoiler:

On the bolded: He's DEFINITLY sarcastic! Wouldn't see it any other way. They can't continue where they ended years ago. They had probably talked about a sweet cottage where they would settled after their wedding, but everything was taken away from them when the Ripper happened. I can see something like that happening.

Spoiler:

And Helen, despite the fact that she says she can never forgive him, and she can't forgive herself (great place to have a relationship - someone on here mentioned that theirs was a relationship built on self-punishment - I agree), sounds like things will be fine.

Spoiler:

I don't think she sounds like things will be fine. I think she was pretty shaken up by the encounter. She probably never would have thought seeing him again. Last time she saw him, she shot him - tried to kill him. Them meeting again only means that he's not dead. So YES, they will begin their dance - her hunt - again. 'Cause now she knows she failed at killing him the first time arround.

And I think it actually made more sense of what Helen told Will in the first episode, talking about the Ashley's embryo. (paraphrasing)"I brought it to term, believing John was gone for good." Here are the events as I see them:
1. She shots him.
2. Hunts for him for a while, but we never here anything about other murders, so she thinkgs he's gone.
3. She sees him again while they're chasing Adam. So, she knows he's not dead.
4. She hunts him for the better part of the next year, until she can 'bare the loneliness no longer' and decides to have his child.

And it would explain why she has waited so long. She probably thought about the frozen embryo a lot during that century.

Which brings me to the fact that when the scene takes place on the bidge, Ashley is frozen, but Helen doesn't say anything - or if she did, we didn't see it. She must at least have thought a great deal about in the aftermath, when he disapeared again... Thoughts anyone else on that?

Spoiler:

Maybe John was more in control of his demon at this point, but he still was a murderer.

Spoiler:

I thought about that too, but I don't think he was more in control... I believe the beast - the creature, whatever you want to call it - was more confident on his grip on him because John didn't know about it, whereas now, the creature knows he knows. So it wants to take control of him more. Because now that he knows, he wants to free himself from it - which scares the crature.

Spoiler:

The only thing I can think of is that when John says "dance", he means the beginning of her hunt for him. I don't know. Thoughts, anyone?

Yep. That and nothing else, for me.

Hope all of this helps! I should get back to my school work now. *sigh*

WOW. Everything in spoilers is kind of sad. XD

[SamJackShipper93]

Thanks for the vids yessika!

Stricly vid-talking I actually preferred the first one. But that's me.

I must admit though that the second one had full of shippy moments that made my heart go 'boom'. <3

Definitely. I loved that first vid to bits!

*pokes head in for first time*

I've never come in here, but I think it's time I did. I really like this pairing. And I firmly beleive that they still love another.

Spoiler:

You could so tell she still loves him in the last ep. Her reaction to finding out he's alive, the fact that she went after him, and layed down next him and put his arm around her.

I feel she forgave him for what he did a long time ago, especially now that she knows it wasn't him that comminted the Ripper murders. And I also feel that he took the entity back in to save her above anything.

Spoiler:

I can't wait to see what he'll do to make sure she lives now.

Padme! *hugs* Long time no see! Glad you've made your way over here!

I deconstructed the order of your post CC, but here are my thoughts.

Spoiler:

Didn't John say "When this is over, you and I will begin our dance anew." I might be wrong, English is not my first language, but that's what I heard. And I think it fits with their history, the atmosphere and everything. o.ô

Spoiler:

Yes, you heard correctly.

And while we're all discussing the significance and context of that one line, may I just say what genius writers we have on this show. I actually like that on first view of an episode a line like that kind of catches you off balance, and you say to yourself, "What on earth did he mean by 'dance'?". Then as you think about it, and rewatch the episode, you realize just how much sense to their relationship it actually makes. It's sarcasm conveying their unorthodox relationship while showing the relationship they wish they could have, but never will. So many layers.

((((Hugs to the writers))))

[LadyGalaxyJ]

Definitely. I loved that first vid to bits!



Padme! *hugs* Long time no see! Glad you've made your way over here!

Spoiler:

Yes, you heard correctly.

And while we're all discussing the significance and context of that one line, may I just say what genius writers we have on this show. I actually like that on first view of an episode a line like that kind of catches you off balance, and you say to yourself, "What on earth did he mean by 'dance'?". Then as you think about it, and rewatch the episode, you realize just how much sense to their relationship it actually makes. It's sarcasm conveying their unorthodox relationship while showing the relationship they wish they could have, but never will. So many layers.

((((Hugs to the writers))))

So, I write a big post and she says it way better than me in like 6 lines. *sigh*
You're right. We have amazing writers.

[Artie]

Spoiler:

And I think it actually made more sense of what Helen told Will in the first episode, talking about the Ashley's embryo. (paraphrasing)"I brought it to term, believing John was gone for good." Here are the events as I see them:
1. She shots him.
2. Hunts for him for a while, but we never here anything about other murders, so she thinkgs he's gone.
3. She sees him again while they're chasing Adam. So, she knows he's not dead.
4. She hunts him for the better part of the next year, until she can 'bare the loneliness no longer' and decides to have his child.

And it would explain why she has waited so long. She probably thought about the frozen embryo a lot during that century.

Which brings me to the fact that when the scene takes place on the bidge, Ashley is frozen, but Helen doesn't say anything - or if she did, we didn't see it. She must at least have thought a great deal about in the aftermath, when he disapeared again... Thoughts anyone else on that?

My thought, possibly upsetting.

Spoiler:

Given the technology of the time, I think Helen is grasping at straws about freezing the embryo. She can't actually have any reasonable expectation of being able to implant and use it, not even 1%. (Remember, the first In Vitro Fertilization was only 30 years ago!) Removing it is essentially an abortion. The chances that it wouldn't die and would be viable at some future date are almost nil. I think she freezes it to make it easier for herself, to tell herself that she's not ending the pregnancy, merely postponing it. It's Helen's way of coping with finding out that not only is she pregnant out of wedlock in a society that will be very censuring, but that her baby's father is an insane serial killer!

And so she temporizes. She comes up with a way to do this that she can handle.

So when she's talking to John on the bridge, she's not saying, "Oh, and btw I was pregnant and I got (James?) to cut the fetus out of me just like you mutiliating all those women's corpses and I keep our frozen fetus lying around the icebox." I mean, John is not the only one a little off around here!

I totally get why she's done that, but there is something a bit gruesome.

[ClassicCouples]

I deconstructed the order of your post CC, but here are my thoughts.

LOL...that is so funny.

Spoiler:

Didn't John say "When this is over, you and I will begin our dance anew." I might be wrong, English is not my first language, but that's what I heard. And I think it fits with their history, the atmosphere and everything. o.ô

That makes MUCH more sense!!

Spoiler:

I don't think she sounds like things will be fine. I think she was pretty shaken up by the encounter. She probably never would have thought seeing him again. Last time she saw him, she shot him - tried to kill him. Them meeting again only means that he's not dead. So YES, they will begin their dance - her hunt - again. 'Cause now she knows she failed at killing him the first time arround.

And I think it actually made more sense of what Helen told Will in the first episode, talking about the Ashley's embryo. (paraphrasing)"I brought it to term, believing John was gone for good." Here are the events as I see them:
1. She shots him.
2. Hunts for him for a while, but we never here anything about other murders, so she thinkgs he's gone.
3. She sees him again while they're chasing Adam. So, she knows he's not dead.
4. She hunts him for the better part of the next year, until she can 'bare the loneliness no longer' and decides to have his child.

And it would explain why she has waited so long. She probably thought about the frozen embryo a lot during that century.

Spoiler:

I totally wasn't thinking about the timeline of when this might have happened. So, I agree. I was wondering why he took off so suddenly when Watson showed up, and why she looked so shaken up. So, when they all showed up at the Prime Minister's was that the first time she had seen him since shooting him? That would make sense. I forgot about that quote from Season 1 about her believing John was gone for good.

WOW. Everything in spoilers is kind of sad. XD

I know, right? But it makes it a little more fun, I think.