The Name of the Doctor (3314/714)

[Nth Chevron]

Well from first watch one thing is evidently clear ... The epic scale does not contain an appropriate level to describe that episode !!!

On the matter of john hurtz as the doctor, evil will ensue.

As for his being the doctor, it specifically stated that he betrayed the name of doctor, he would have had to make the choice off being the doctor before he could betray it.

with that being said it doesn't make sense for jh to be the pre doctor (though the theory of him being the other from tl history is appealing) he could be the valeyard in which case they are seeing the doctors future before it has happened, dangerous as where he was encountered becomes such a complex event it may become fixed. It could also be an older tw mcgann who became the genocidal monster that we believe he became on the front lines of that war.


Also the doctors tomb, on trenzalore, part of his last great battle or massacre from the gi's perspective.

Is this a possible valeyard moment of despotism or the doctors final stand against tyranny?

Also, calling it now, the 50th will be about the doctor and Clara trying to escape the doctors time stream with the valeyard running interference and trying to goad the doctor, although possibly laying the groundwork for his existence at whichever regeneration.

[Archaeis]

Did anyone else hope that Series 5/Cracks in time/whoever hijacked the TARDIS/Silence would come into play here too and disappointed when it didn't?

[cosmichobo]

You really enjoy whining over trivial nothings, don't you?

Me?

Yes.

Why?

[Coco Pops]

Did anyone else hope that Series 5/Cracks in time/whoever hijacked the TARDIS/Silence would come into play here too and disappointed when it didn't?

Very much........... I want all that resolved.

I'd like to see the Silence return to see:

A) what's left of them as their numbers would be thinned
B) their plan B to kill The Doctor

[Coco Pops]

Seriously...?

Yes seriously.

John Hurt is The Doctor

All the others that followed were regenerations of him but pale by comparison because he was The original... The one that came before all the others and did something that they all have pushed back into their memories to never speak of again.

[The Flyattractor]

That sounds kind of silly and ill-concieved...I am sure Moffat will be plagerising you as fast as he can...

[P-90_177]

Did anyone else hope that Series 5/Cracks in time/whoever hijacked the TARDIS/Silence would come into play here too and disappointed when it didn't?

I really don't think there's anything left to resolve there. The cracks were the result of the TARDIS exploding, which it did at the end of season 5. The TARDIS wasn't hijacked, she moved herself.

[GodAtum]

I really don't think there's anything left to resolve there. The cracks were the result of the TARDIS exploding, which it did at the end of season 5. The TARDIS wasn't hijacked, she moved herself.

When did the TARDIS explode? my memory is rubbish.

[Quizziard]

The TARDIS exploded in "The Big Bang". It explodes with the time-restoration field from the Pandorica, thus resetting the universe. Though precisely when/where to has never been studied. But probably before the Silence, since the crack was healed.

[Quizziard]

Anyway, was out of position for this episode so only just caught up.

Yes, wow, John Hurt. But, as already raised, which non-Doctor is he. Post-Smith, something pre-Ecclestone or pre-Hartnell? Very interesting. Not entirely sure it's really as game-changing as claimed, just another twist.

As for the episode, I was having some DVR problems but it felt a bit bleh! Needs another watching.

[SaberBlade]

When did the TARDIS explode? my memory is rubbish.

The TARDIS exploded at the end of season 5. It was really never explained why The Silence and their associates wanted the Doctor dead or how they were able to cause it to blow up.

I don't believe John Hurt is the pre-Doctor. There are several reasons for this.

Reason 1. Eleventh would be the final Doctor.

Him being a pre-Doctor does fit in line with his regeneration history, but Ten used two regenerations (one becoming Eleventh, but another previously in the creation of The DoctorDonna).

Pre-Doctor
Regeneration 1: First Doctor
Regeneration 2: Second Doctor
Regeneration 3: Third Doctor
Regeneration 4: Fourth
Regeneration 5: Fifth
Regeneration 6: Sixth
Regeneration 7: Seventh
Regeneration 8: Eighth
Regeneration 9: Ninth
Regeneration 10: Tenth
Regeneration 11: Tenth (Stolen Earth/Journey's End. Like it or not, it was still a full regeneration used)
Regeneration 12 (Final): Eleventh

So there is no way for him to become The Beast, the Storm or The Valeyard since when Eleven dies, he's dead for good. If not for that pesky DoctorDonna regeneration but I can't see it

Reason 2: The Doctor said he picked that name, and in doing so it was like a promise he made. He made a promise when he became The Doctor. However, John Hurt broke the promise. So he would have had to be The Doctor to begin with in order for the promise to have been broken. So the whole point of the ultimate question, "Doctor who?" is not about his birth name (as he pointed out, his real name has nothing to do with it) but it's about who he is, that's the real question, Who is The Doctor. Is he the Eleven people we've seen so far, or is he this new person who broke the promise.

If I had to guess, I would say this non-Doctor is the person the Silence were at war with. The reason that Trenzalore was a battleground and now a dead world, full of graves and monuments. The Great Intelligence even says the battle of Trenzalore was "too much for the old man" and we did see an old Doctor at the end.

Since The Doctor didn't know about Trenzalore, I do believe it's a future version of The Doctor. Perhaps he's The Valeyard as The Doctor would know about his future dark version but not about the specifics. It's just weird it would be a secret he'd take to his grave since Valeyard isn't a new character.

Or, completely random thought, he's the future version of Eighth. The Doctor could do a lot to try keeping that version of himself secret as not many know what he did to end the war. I really like the idea of him being an old Eighth and the clothing seemed to fit but I think he's just a future, if not final version of the Doctor responsible for whatever happened on the planet.

I do look forward to finding out who Solomon the Trader is. I don't remember that character out of all the known characters The Great Intelligence mentioned.

[cosmichobo]

I do look forward to finding out who Solomon the Trader is. I don't remember that character out of all the known characters The Great Intelligence mentioned.

http://www.bbcamerica.com/doctor-who/monsters/solomon/

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

Him being a pre-Doctor does fit in line with his regeneration history, but Ten used two regenerations (one becoming Eleventh, but another previously in the creation of The DoctorDonna).

Remind me ...

[P-90_177]

The TARDIS exploded at the end of season 5. It was really never explained why The Silence and their associates wanted the Doctor dead or how they were able to cause it to blow up.

I don't believe John Hurt is the pre-Doctor. There are several reasons for this.

Reason 1. Eleventh would be the final Doctor.

Him being a pre-Doctor does fit in line with his regeneration history, but Ten used two regenerations (one becoming Eleventh, but another previously in the creation of The DoctorDonna).

Pre-Doctor
Regeneration 1: First Doctor
Regeneration 2: Second Doctor
Regeneration 3: Third Doctor
Regeneration 4: Fourth
Regeneration 5: Fifth
Regeneration 6: Sixth
Regeneration 7: Seventh
Regeneration 8: Eighth
Regeneration 9: Ninth
Regeneration 10: Tenth
Regeneration 11: Tenth (Stolen Earth/Journey's End. Like it or not, it was still a full regeneration used)
Regeneration 12 (Final): Eleventh

So there is no way for him to become The Beast, the Storm or The Valeyard since when Eleven dies, he's dead for good. If not for that pesky DoctorDonna regeneration but I can't see it

Reason 2: The Doctor said he picked that name, and in doing so it was like a promise he made. He made a promise when he became The Doctor. However, John Hurt broke the promise. So he would have had to be The Doctor to begin with in order for the promise to have been broken. So the whole point of the ultimate question, "Doctor who?" is not about his birth name (as he pointed out, his real name has nothing to do with it) but it's about who he is, that's the real question, Who is The Doctor. Is he the Eleven people we've seen so far, or is he this new person who broke the promise.

If I had to guess, I would say this non-Doctor is the person the Silence were at war with. The reason that Trenzalore was a battleground and now a dead world, full of graves and monuments. The Great Intelligence even says the battle of Trenzalore was "too much for the old man" and we did see an old Doctor at the end.

Since The Doctor didn't know about Trenzalore, I do believe it's a future version of The Doctor. Perhaps he's The Valeyard as The Doctor would know about his future dark version but not about the specifics. It's just weird it would be a secret he'd take to his grave since Valeyard isn't a new character.

Or, completely random thought, he's the future version of Eighth. The Doctor could do a lot to try keeping that version of himself secret as not many know what he did to end the war. I really like the idea of him being an old Eighth and the clothing seemed to fit but I think he's just a future, if not final version of the Doctor responsible for whatever happened on the planet.

I do look forward to finding out who Solomon the Trader is. I don't remember that character out of all the known characters The Great Intelligence mentioned.

The 11th isn't the final Doctor, or at least he needn't be. After all he threatened the Cyber Planner that he would regenerate and burn up its circuitry. And I doubt that was a bluff either. There was no indication that it was.

[Matt G]

I'm going for Hurt's character to be technically a regen of the Doctor that I'm guessing slots in between McGann Doctor and Ecclestone-Doctor but one that didn't call himself the Doctor. I think Smith-Doctor is only POd at him because he didn't cal himself the Doctor, he implied there's some kind of code-of-honour involved in the names the Timelords choose for themselves!