The Name of the Doctor (3314/714)

[scifan]

Loved it!! Already saw it twice. My shippy heart just melted towards the end.

[Commander Zelix]

I'm been critical of this season but this episode was just wow! Best of the season.

[DigiFluid]

One thing I was a bit unclear on -- was the River in this episode supposed to be the post-death Library backup River? That's definitely the impression I had, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how that's possible.

[The Flyattractor]

..........I so want to yank out my eyeballs and then strangle myself with the stems right now....

[cosmichobo]

One word. I've just got one word for you all, and you'd better hear it. One word that brings this whole universe to a halt.

Oh wait, nevermind.

Oh yes - Valeyard.

If John Hurt is indeed playing the Valeyard, then I applaud thee... I applaud and I love it. An origins story for the Valeyard would be awesome, especially as we approach his "beginning" (ie between 12 and 13).

BUT... If Hurt is simply playing some as til now unknown Doctor... If he's playing the dark and nasty Time War Doctor (which surely should be McGann anyway), or some other deep dark secret Doctor that is going to add to our mythology a NEW BAD DOCTOR... Then I'm done... and I'll come back when Moffat is gone...

(Oh, and now we've had past Doctors, I don't anticipate seeing any past Doctor actors, nor any further clip/CGI Doctors in the Anniversary... which was what I was suspecting they'd do...)

[Archaeis]

BUT... If Hurt is simply playing some as til now unknown Doctor... If he's playing the dark and nasty Time War Doctor (which surely should be McGann anyway), or some other deep dark secret Doctor that is going to add to our mythology a NEW BAD DOCTOR... Then I'm done... and I'll come back when Moffat is gone...

9, 10, and 11 were quite open about the things he did during the Time War. He didn't like to talk about it, but he didnt hide it either. Hurt's Doctor has to be something much different and probably older than the Time War.

Maybe something he did as the First Doctor that made him run away into exile?

[Blencathra]

I was assuming that the John Hurt Doctor may be pre- First Doctor, ie BEFORE he started calling himself The Doctor. Whatever the Hurt version of the Doctor did, it must be pretty bad for "our" Doctor to disown him completely, and only to start counting his regenerations from when he changed his name to The Doctor.

From The Name of the Doctor

DOCTOR: I said he was me. I never said he was the Doctor.

DOCTOR: The name you chose - it's like a promise you make.

HURT DOCTOR: What I did, I did without choice.

DOCTOR: I know.

HURT DOCTOR: In the name of peace and sanity.

DOCTOR: But not in the name of the Doctor

From A Good Man Goes to War

RIVER: "Doctor": the word for "healer" and "wise man", throughout the universe. We get that word from you, you know.

So to my mind, the Hurt Doctor has done something the Doctor can't bear to think about. So he changes his name from "X" to The Doctor, making a promise to be a wise man and a healer from then on, and only counts his regenerations from the point he changed his name.

Oh and remember the unknown faces in The Brain of Morbius when the fourth Doctor and Morbius were battling it out? There may be even more.

[cosmichobo]

The other thing...

I'd been enjoying the Great Intelligence's return... but ultimately now that we've seen it presumably gone forever, I feel pretty deflated. Ultimately it really just served as lip service to Moffat's great plot...

And even worse, the Buffy-Hush-rip-offs - at least the Silence got some kind of story behind them... These admittedly spooky fellas just wander in for half an episode and are gone just as quick...

I feel it would have been much better to have had a greater continuity for the GI/not-the-Hush/Snowmen/etc... as ultimately it just felt very flat - like you've just climbed a mountain, but taken the ski lift for 99% of it.

When Clara was laying in a fetal position, and the Doctor arrives to save her... I expected Richard E Grant to appear again for a final show down... but no... we get Mr Mysterious... If little Miss girl next door can survive, then the GI, that's been around for probably thousands of years, certainly can too...

[Coco Pops]

An enjoyable episode. Finally.

Loved the references Clara made to being a "souffle girl" even near the start of the episode.. The big reveal was good but I have another idea..........

What if John Hurt Doctor is in fact "The Real Doctor" as in wholly real, and the ones we've been watching were just pale imitations of the real Doctor? It can't be as bad as any of the other ideas floating around.

[Flyboy]

An enjoyable episode. Finally.

Loved the references Clara made to being a "souffle girl" even near the start of the episode.. The big reveal was good but I have another idea..........

What if John Hurt Doctor is in fact "The Real Doctor" as in wholly real, and the ones we've been watching were just pale imitations of the real Doctor? It can't be as bad as any of the other ideas floating around.

Seriously...?

[Ian-S]

I think as others John Hurt is 'pre-Doctor', hasn't it been mentioned that 'The Doctor' was in prison and escaped, stealing the Tardis in the process? I thought I heard that somewhere before.

I didn't like the 'Introducing John Hurt as the Doctor' what the hell was that about?, do they think nobody listens to the dialogue of the characters? It's like someone pointed out in post that they didn't understand what was going on so 'we'd better put it on screen who and what it is for those not listening'.

Also they never explained how TGI knew about the place, or got the people there, does he have a time machine too, or can he travel through time at will?

Perhaps I'm just getting old and cranky, but the Moff seems to forget some stuff needs to be explained to make the story believable, or explain how a baddie is different to every other, even a simple DW: how did you do this? TGI: You're not the only one with a time machine.... would do.

Grr, maybe I just need to rewatch it

[min min light]

I also immediately thought of Buffy/Hush when I saw the Whispermen. I hope Moffat wasn't planning on making them a recurring thing.

This episode was probably a lot better for people who have watched all of Who including all the classic episodes, which I guess is as it should be since this is the anniversary year.

[P-90_177]

I think as others John Hurt is 'pre-Doctor', hasn't it been mentioned that 'The Doctor' was in prison and escaped, stealing the Tardis in the process? I thought I heard that somewhere before.

I didn't like the 'Introducing John Hurt as the Doctor' what the hell was that about?, do they think nobody listens to the dialogue of the characters? It's like someone pointed out in post that they didn't understand what was going on so 'we'd better put it on screen who and what it is for those not listening'.

Also they never explained how TGI knew about the place, or got the people there, does he have a time machine too, or can he travel through time at will?

Perhaps I'm just getting old and cranky, but the Moff seems to forget some stuff needs to be explained to make the story believable, or explain how a baddie is different to every other, even a simple DW: how did you do this? TGI: You're not the only one with a time machine.... would do.

Grr, maybe I just need to rewatch it

Generally speaking Doctor Who villains have always just shown up in random places. In the case of The Great Intelligence you can easily assume that it is a version of it that has progressed through the ages to its most advanced level, hence the shapeshifting Whisper Men. The Great Intelligence's role is to gather knowledge. There's no reason why it couldn't find out the secret to time travel along the line quite easily.

As for "Introducing John Hurt as The Doctor" I took that as definite confirmation that he IS the Doctor and not like a warped aspect of the Doctor like the Valeyard or such. Basically it was their way of saying "There's no need to guess whether he is or isn't really the Doctor, He REALLY is."

Also a bit of random knowledge here. John Hurt was born in my home town.

[cosmichobo]

I can say, with 100% accuracy, that this was my favourite episode of 2012/13... And yes, simply because we got to see body doubles and CGI of the old Doctors... Yes, min min light, some foreknowledge certainly helps here... though really - it's not super important. Really all you needed to pick up was that the old duffer stealing the TARDIS was the 1st Doctor... Ultimately - if you've only been watching for the past few years, as long as you understood there's more than 1 Doctor, then that's enough to know - all the guys running round in Clara's head are previous Doctors...

Ian-S - See, sadly it's not made clear, but the Great Intelligence was forced into non-corporeal form, and originally (ie 2 stories from 1968) was trying to find physical form once more, and take over the Earth... Whilst time travel/teleportation certainly weren't shown as the GI's talents back then, I had no real issue believing that it had whisked the Victorian Trio off to Trenzalore...

Yes, the "as The Doctor" was pretty weird... I could certainly imagine a producer saying - Errm, Steve, I think we need a label here...


Ohhh - and... Hurt's voice... Totally just made me think of... Canton Everett Delaware III - or his older self perhaps... Which really ruined the moment for me...

[DigiFluid]

You really enjoy whining over trivial nothings, don't you?