A Good Man Goes To War (3207)

[Galileo_Galilee]

Okay, this poses a whole other set of problems.

If River really is Amy's daughter, and she is half Time Lord, and I hope i'm not stating the painfully obvious here, but that means that River would also be The Doctor's second daughter. Because he is presumably the only free roaming Galifreyan in the entire universe. And barring anything else, that means Amy did give him at least one night to remember.

And it would have to be the Doctor because if it's not him then that means Amy slept with another roaming Time Lord out there, some where. Which has yet to be documented.

And that means River can not be The Doctor's wife. because then that would be marrying your own daughter.

So, ew.



The only other possibility is through some sort of genetic engineering of some sort, like the first Daughter.

But even with that, it would still be very icky, because River would still be the Doctor's daughter. Because at least as far as I know, the only source of Galifreyan DNA would be The Doctor.

[Sealurk]

I think it is stated or implied that River is biologically the daughter of Rory and Amy, but that her non-human aspects come from being conceived in the TARDIS while in the Time Vortex.

So I don't think she has any direct genetic link to the Doctor, just a few biological similarities as a result of both being creatures of time.

[Galileo_Galilee]

I really hope that's case, but I'm afraid we'll just have to wait and see.

[Pharaoh Atem]

I think it is stated or implied that River is biologically the daughter of Rory and Amy, but that her non-human aspects come from being conceived in the TARDIS while in the Time Vortex.

So I don't think she has any direct genetic link to the Doctor, just a few biological similarities as a result of both being creatures of time.

that's how i'm accepting it till moffat says otherwise.

[Alan]

I think its safe to say that Amy and Rory are River Song's parents. River even acknowledges them as her parents. As for the Doctor's part in River's background you need to bring the TARDIS in to the equation:

Anyone that travels in the TARDIS gets very gently irradiated by Artron Energy. The Doctor and all Time Lords have Artron Energy within them and one Time Lord once said that the Doctor had unusually high Artron Energy levels within him. Artron Energy is essential in the relationship between travellers and a TARDIS but it is never explained why. Also, Artron Energy altered and enhanced human antibodies which made the human immune system more resistant in fighting against diseases.

What Artron Energy would do to someone conceived by two humans within a TARDIS travelling through the space/time vortex who have both already been irradiated by Artron Energy remains to be seen. From the story told by A Good Man Goes to War, it would seem that it would mutate the genes of a human. They might not be mutated enough to turn a baby conceived by two humans in to a Time Lord...but enough to make it a lot more than human.

[Galileo_Galilee]

You know, this could be a round about way of telling the origins of the Galifreyans and how they became Time Lords. In the distance past they found this unusual energy and learned to ahrness it....

[Alan]

I think its safe to say that Amy and Rory are River Song's parents. River even acknowledges them as her parents. As for the Doctor's part in River's background you need to bring the TARDIS in to the equation:

Anyone that travels in the TARDIS gets very gently irradiated by Artron Energy. The Doctor and all Time Lords have Artron Energy within them and one Time Lord once said that the Doctor had unusually high Artron Energy levels within him. Artron Energy is essential in the relationship between travellers and a TARDIS but it is never explained why. Also, Artron Energy altered and enhanced human antibodies which made the human immune system more resistant in fighting against diseases.

What Artron Energy would do to someone conceived by two humans within a TARDIS travelling through the space/time vortex who have both already been irradiated by Artron Energy remains to be seen. From the story told by A Good Man Goes to War, it would seem that it would mutate the genes of a human. They might not be mutated enough to turn a baby conceived by two humans in to a Time Lord...but enough to make it a lot more than human.

[rosey_angel]

Okay, this poses a whole other set of problems.

If River really is Amy's daughter, and she is half Time Lord, and I hope i'm not stating the painfully obvious here, but that means that River would also be The Doctor's second daughter. Because he is presumably the only free roaming Galifreyan in the entire universe. And barring anything else, that means Amy did give him at least one night to remember.

And it would have to be the Doctor because if it's not him then that means Amy slept with another roaming Time Lord out there, some where. Which has yet to be documented.

And that means River can not be The Doctor's wife. because then that would be marrying your own daughter.

So, ew.



The only other possibility is through some sort of genetic engineering of some sort, like the first Daughter.

But even with that, it would still be very icky, because River would still be the Doctor's daughter. Because at least as far as I know, the only source of Galifreyan DNA would be The Doctor.

I think it is stated or implied that River is biologically the daughter of Rory and Amy, but that her non-human aspects come from being conceived in the TARDIS while in the Time Vortex.

So I don't think she has any direct genetic link to the Doctor, just a few biological similarities as a result of both being creatures of time.

that's how i'm accepting it till moffat says otherwise.

I think its safe to say that Amy and Rory are River Song's parents. River even acknowledges them as her parents. As for the Doctor's part in River's background you need to bring the TARDIS in to the equation:

Anyone that travels in the TARDIS gets very gently irradiated by Artron Energy. The Doctor and all Time Lords have Artron Energy within them and one Time Lord once said that the Doctor had unusually high Artron Energy levels within him. Artron Energy is essential in the relationship between travellers and a TARDIS but it is never explained why. Also, Artron Energy altered and enhanced human antibodies which made the human immune system more resistant in fighting against diseases.

What Artron Energy would do to someone conceived by two humans within a TARDIS travelling through the space/time vortex who have both already been irradiated by Artron Energy remains to be seen. From the story told by A Good Man Goes to War, it would seem that it would mutate the genes of a human. They might not be mutated enough to turn a baby conceived by two humans in to a Time Lord...but enough to make it a lot more than human.

the Doctor seems to think that it's not enough to create a TIme Lord, and the Siluran woman said that it was enough to give "them" a head start. That gives me the impression that whatever being conceived in the TARDIS did to Melody/River, it didn't give her her Time Lordyness it just opened her DNA up enough so she could be turned into a Time Lord. But that's just me

[Galileo_Galilee]

I can foresee the next meta plot. Humans become the next Time lords.

Why should Galifreyans have an exclusive club on it?

[kcatlantis]

If River kills the Doctor, how are they going to undue that? Is he in a flesh avatar?

[Pharaoh Atem]

I can foresee the next meta plot. Humans become the next Time lords.

Why should Galifreyans have an exclusive club on it?

i've been saying for a while i think moffats working up to restoring the timelords

[SGalisa]

I think its safe to say that Amy and Rory are River Song's parents. River even acknowledges them as her parents. As for the Doctor's part in River's background you need to bring the TARDIS in to the equation:

Anyone that travels in the TARDIS gets very gently irradiated by Artron Energy. The Doctor and all Time Lords have Artron Energy within them and one Time Lord once said that the Doctor had unusually high Artron Energy levels within him. Artron Energy is essential in the relationship between travellers and a TARDIS but it is never explained why. Also, Artron Energy altered and enhanced human antibodies which made the human immune system more resistant in fighting against diseases.

What Artron Energy would do to someone conceived by two humans within a TARDIS travelling through the space/time vortex who have both already been irradiated by Artron Energy remains to be seen. From the story told by A Good Man Goes to War, it would seem that it would mutate the genes of a human. They might not be mutated enough to turn a baby conceived by two humans in to a Time Lord...but enough to make it a lot more than human.

rather than mutated genes ... it's more of *enhanced* genetics (same thing, but a fancier way of saying it with a *positive* twist attached), as the Doctor *might* say.

tardis -- wikia -- dot--com reinforces and acknowledges the *Artron Energy* theory for River to contain some Time-Lord like DNA within her as DW canon. But it did not state she had any DNA in her from the Doctor, so she is not the Doctor's daughter -- no way, no how, unless a future episode determines it otherwise (which is doubtful). Paraphrasing, it basically stated Amy and Rory's exposure to the time vortex may have influenced River's genetic make-up (and given her a stronger dosage of artron energy than what her parents might now contain).
The conversation between the Doctor and the Silurian woman is the basis of that canon regarding exposure to the Time Vortex.
Now, whether that Time Vortex is the one inside and part of the TARDIS or outside in the vortex time stream is yet to be understood.

If River kills the Doctor, how are they going to undue that? Is he in a flesh avatar?

I saw The Almost People again. The Doctor told his other self that *he* (the flesh version) just might survive the meltdown process and live again. That merely gave possibility to the idea that the Doctor who dies, is in fact, the duplicate Doctor and not the original. Also, the way he is given a funeral pyre makes me wonder if --again-- if it was the "flesh" duplicate Doctor, his goo might settle to the bottom of the lake-bed, and thus be capable of being processed back together again..? thus, we'll end up with 2 roaming Doctors on the loose again??

will we ever find out??
the intrigue deepens..

[GodAtum]

Slightly OT, are they both keeping secrets from one another. The Doctor knows that River is doing to die and River knows the Doctor is going to die but they are keeping that secrets?

It's funny that the eye patch lady (or whoever is behind trying to kill the Doctor) thinks that they can succeed. I mean even an alliance of the doctor's enemies could not defeat him!

[wwlh]

As far as River "acting" as if she didn't know that Amy and Rory are her parents...I think she was just far more used to the idea than we expected. Remember...she is from the Doctor's future. When Rory showed up at the beginning of the episode he apologizes to her if they hadn't met yet because the whole "timeline" thing confuses him.. and she says that, yes, they have met..and you can see she is clearly moved by seeing him. I just think that in River's future/Amy and Rory's past - she is more able to control her emotions about being around them..

[Spimman]

My head is still spinning from this episode, what a great mid-season finale. I'm so glad it is mid-season and we'll get to see it play out not too long from now!