Journey's End (3013/413)

[Flyboy]

I disagree.

While I see your point I would then have to agree that all soldiers in war are mass murders and all those who take a life in self defense or for the greater good are also nothing more then murders.

While one part of me thinks that is indeed the truth, a hard and harsh truth for many to live with.... I have little time for armed forces or those who serve in them. I think it is a big stretch to call The Doctor nothing more then a mass murder. Plain or Simply.

The Doctor as far as we know has only acted in self defense or in the name of his people or as you say the Universe. The UNIVERSE!!! I guess it gets down to one man's terrorist being another's freedom fighter.

I think The Doctor is more about freedom then terror.

Also lets not forget he refused in the end to commit genocide on The Daleks first time around and we still have no real proof of what he did do in the Time War, just talk from his enemies (Master and Davros).

I have to say while I have been glad to have Doctor Who back and happy about most of what RTD has done for the show... I do find RTD has a bent towards making The Doctor more evil then good and I don't like it... nope not one little bit.

So yeah while I do disagree with your post I can see why you might come to thous conclusions based on New Who. IF you have watched all of Who then I don't understand at all.

I would like to disagree with you entirely with your "one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist" line. It is entirely wrong. Terrorism is a particular tactic that can be employed by anyone, whether a freedom fighter or otherwise. You can in fact be both. A terrorist commits attrocities that are symbolic and cause terror in a population, which are more often than not more psychologically impacting than the material or strategic victories gained from the actual attack. You could be a terrorist freedom fighter, or you could be a revolutionary who has never commited a terrorist act.

Now, I do agree that we cannot call the Doctor a mass murderer. We cannot call military personnel murderers, as the term "murder" is actually a legal issue, you can be a killer without being a murder, hence the term "man slaughter". In warfare we see different rules and laws. It is legal and legitimate for one uniformed individual to kill another uniformed individual of the opposing side, yet there are still boundaries, these are known as war crimes. It is legitimate to kill the enemy's forces in warfare, but not the civilians. The Doctor never kills innocents, the Doctor can NOT. But he CAN kill enemy combatants, usually after he's given them the chance to become civilians again.

The Doctor is a killer, no doubt about it. But he is in essence a one man army, fighting on behalf of nations and planets. We must view him as a soldier, a General, just as his "daughter" asserted, and thus I would suggest he is subject to the same laws of war as any soldier is. The military exists because it is a necessity, a sad but very real necessity. For as long as there are people in the world motivated by greed and violence, we will always need a body of men willing to sacrifice themselves and fight for the freedom and protection of others - the Doctor is such a man.

[Coco Pops]

100 trillion AD.

So maybe the Valeyard is still out there somewhere...


Or like a line in "forest of the dead" "you will become the dr" I think River song says that . Maybe this Doctor IS the Valeyard seperated from himself so to speak... Hey crazier things have happened in TV land. And that was a pure crazy thought

[nx01a]

Maybe the Time War-ravaged Doctor is simply more in touch with his inner psychopath.

I don't know about during the old series, but we've seen the Doctor 'take out' an entire population of civilians in order to save the planet and the future in 'Pompeii'. Horrific, yes, but not as horrific as allowing the entire planet to turn, quite literally, to ash.

[Coco Pops]

Just finished the ep, my brain's going crazy, all I'll say is that I HATE the Doctor for what he did to Donna. I know it was the only way. But I really don't like him right now, at all. Absolutely awful to see her go back to that after she finally realized that she is someone special-

Oh come on this is scifi I loathe what was done to Donna... I loathe it. It wasn't the only way, what does that mean?

[Madeleine]

Oh come on this is scifi I loathe what was done to Donna... I loathe it. It wasn't the only way, what does that mean?

Don't forget that - this being a UK show - the entire fourth series had been filmed before the first airing of Partners in Crime. They had no idea how popular Donna would be, and they 'killed' her while most of the fan boards were still in a kerfuffle about how awful she would definitely be

Also, the year's break had been planned a long time ago, and the ideas they had for the various specials were maybe not conducive to having a companion - or maybe just not suited to having a pre-established companion.

Then there's CT: she's a mum, she has a career beyond Doctor Who, and she may have only wanted a year's worth.

What would it take to get a normal person out of the TARDIS? Rose had to be trapped in an alternate universe; Martha had to take care of her traumatised family; Donna wanted to travel forever with the Doctor, so only something really drastic could have done the job.

I thought it was horrible, but horrible in a really good and watchable way.

[Coco Pops]

What would it take to get a normal person out of the TARDIS? Rose had to be trapped in an alternate universe; Martha had to take care of her traumatised family; Donna wanted to travel forever with the Doctor, so only something really drastic could have done the job.

I thought it was horrible, but horrible in a really good and watchable way.

Now when you put it like that it makes a world of sense...

I'll go with it now but I don't have to like it lol....

[Coco Pops]

Weeeell We just had the finale here in Australia and I have to say it was Fracking brilliant.....

Everyone got home and a happy ending. Everyone But Donna, now a mere shadow of herself..... Bet her mum was pleased with the Doctor.... Her dad will keep her safe till he croaks. I cried.

When the Doctor did his spockalike thing to her and removed her memories....

But hang on Mini Me.... I mean Copy Doc is also half human and half timelord so why doesn't he explode or go crazy.... Still think poor Donna......

And then he warned her father she can't remember even for one second or she will burn up...

Well I hope they fix her up in a future who..... I just felt so bad for Donna, and so upset that the Donna we have now is a dummy again. She forwever will be a dummy.

And what if something in the future slips her mind up..... She dies Great .Not good.

[gateship15]

this ep is fantastic. the Daleks speaking german was great and the fact we get to see the doctor as he use to be before rose as well as giving her her own doctor to have. i also like the fact the doctor we know can't tell rose he was going to say he loved her because he knows hes ment to be alone. but the new human doctor told her what the doctor was going to say to say and kissed. i'm sad that the doctor is now alone again and that donna can never remember the doctor or she will die. i also think the change went both ways. the doctor made his companions into fighters and the companions made him more human and in that giving him a family that will always be there for him.

[Coco Pops]

this ep is fantastic. the Daleks speaking german was great and the fact we get to see the doctor as he use to be before rose as well as giving her her own doctor to have. i also like the fact the doctor we know can't tell rose he was going to say he loved her because he knows hes ment to be alone. but the new human doctor told her what the doctor was going to say to say and kissed. i'm sad that the doctor is now alone again and that donna can never remember the doctor or she will die. i also think the change went both ways. the doctor made his companions into fighters and the companions made him more human and in that giving him a family that will always be there for him.

Yeah I like all that but it still sucks for poor Donna....... I know there's no show and all now but thinking in terms of the show what happens in the event she sees something on TV mentioning the Doctor, or hears something on the radio that triggers her mid? That's a pretty crap deal.

[gateship15]

yea it is a bad deal. i guess he will have to wipe her memory again. or hope that she will think of it as a silly story and not belive it. if she dos remember i doubt there will be much he could do she will die

[Coco Pops]

The Doctor can be a real jerk IMHO........

Captain Jack has helped him and the Earth so much that first thing he does when they meet is nobble his teleport thing. Doesn't do that to Martha or the Unit people but Jack.....

[gateship15]

yes i agree. but i guess he knew that he would go to the past and to the future. i think he also knows he may go looking for the doctor again. but what ever the case he doesn't seem to trust jack.

[Pharaoh Atem]

or he doesn't want someone to take advantage of jacks immortally and use him for the wrong reasons.

or it can just be a fun gag the writers will keep doing for fun

[Coco Pops]

yes i agree. but i guess he knew that he would go to the past and to the future. i think he also knows he may go looking for the doctor again. but what ever the case he doesn't seem to trust jack.

Or a more boring reason I thought of was that maybe viewers would get confused seeing him pop up on Dr. Who when he should be in Torchwood that being an adult show and all, supposedly.

Maybe Jack should make an upgrade to the teleport thing to make it tamper proof...... He's not that stupid that he can't

[Pharaoh Atem]

Or a more boring reason I thought of was that maybe viewers would get confused seeing him pop up on Dr. Who when he should be in Torchwood that being an adult show and all, supposedly.

Maybe Jack should make an upgrade to the teleport thing to make it tamper proof...... He's not that stupid that he can't

well he keeps finding a way to pop in so he's over riding the doctors attempts i think twice now