The Captain's Hand (217)

[mudguts]

Tigh's command can only be described one way, a disaster.

Which would make for far more interesting viewing than the tight ship Lee's probably keen on creating. With Tigh in command BSG would become like Beavis and Butthead meets the West Wing in space.

[Scooteristi]

I'm still having a little bit of a hard time dealing with the fact that Lee went from Captain to Commander in the span of one ep. It boggles the mind.

As for the people saying how Lee got promoted to Commander so quick, that can be referred to as a battlefield commission. Normally you have to have so much time in your rank and meet certian criteria before you can be considered for promotion. But in a wartime situation this is not always the case. The biggest example of this was during vietnam. I know my uncle jumped up 4 ranks to First Seargent in less than 18 months because of deaths in the command. Someone has to fill those slots and the senior person there is the one to usually do it.

The most astonishing promotion of all was that of George Armstrong Custer, who (along with two captains), three days before the battle of Gettysburg, was promoted from First Lieutenant to Brigadier General, no intervening promotions necessary.

[Scooteristi]

here I go:Mike Myers, Norm MacDonald, Jim Carrey, Catherine O'Hara, Martin Short, Rick Moranis, John Candy, Eugene Levy, Michael J. Fox

You forgot the most important one of all: SHATNER

[thebiggfrogg]

Good episode. The promotion of Apollo to Commander caught me off guard - didn't see it coming. I loved the battle scenes. Just enough to get a feel for it, but also not enough to put the show over budget.

One thing though: The parallel of the fleet's political situations (the abortion issue, the "we're losing our rights and becoming ike the Cylons/terrorists" stuff) soured me on the writing of this episode. The struggle for political power in the fleet could have taken a different and much more intelligent path rather than taking a rehashed present day pro- or anti- choice/Iraq War rhetoric story line. I understand why it was written like it was, but I just want to be entertained.

Note to Ronald Moore: You are SO much more intelligent than the typical Hollywood crowd. You don't need to get into the present day "Republican vs. Democrat" Patriot Act debate with this series. I am probably like a lot of the people watching the show. I need an escape from the political climate of the day. Battlestar Galactica provided that for me - until tonight.

PLEASE don't let me have to watch the news at 6 and then have to hear it all again at 10:00.

Just a thought!

I love the political stuff in Galactica. There isn't enough thougtful stuff on TV and the stuff that passes (West Wing--gag) is naive. Galactica takes an interesting look at political and philsophical issues explores its characters and is entertaining. I hope it continues on all fronts. If I want pure escapism I will watch Star Wars. If I want intelligent escapism that makes me think I will watch Galactica. Keep it up, Ron Moore.

[tony]

Using data that I obtained freely from the CDC, I'm going to estimate deaths @ 10 per 1000 (higher than US, but not too much higher, to reflect the cancelling effects of both having a relatively more healthy and younger population and the fact that they are at war -- obviously, if a major catastrophe occurs -- the Pegasus is destroyed, these numbers all have to be adjusted); abortions @ 25 per 1000 pregnancies (around the historical norm, slightly decreased to reflect US trends in last decade), and pregnancies @ 125 per 1000 (slightly higher than US current of about 105, but not higher than rates in the 70s)

So, those are our independent variables. Now, our model will be:

A(T+1)=A(T)-(1/100)A(T)+(1/8)*A(T)/2-(1/40)*A(T)/2

Which reduces to A(T+1)=26A(T)/25

Yep, that's right: if the producers had actually sat down and done their homework, they would have realized that a group of 50,000, fairly parallely distributed (to a standard population), would have no problem continuing the human race.

This is all rather imprecise -- I've omitted a weighted distribution of the death rate to reflect the fact that elderly persons are much more likely to die than youthful ones, especially where it counts (read, the female population), although our distribution might be bimodal given the fact that they are at war. So, if anything this model slightly underpredicts, although, given the more liberal figures I used at onset, I'm hoping that the two balance eachother out. I'm also assuming a temporally uniform distribution of deaths.

In a 5 year period, without the prohibition on abortion:

T(0): 50,000
T(1): 52,000
T(2): 54,080
T(3): 56,243
T(4): 58,492
T(5); 60,831

Without abortion, our figure reduces to:

421A(T)/400

T(0): 50,000
T(1): 52,625
T(2): 55,387
T(3): 58,294
T(4): 61,354
T(5): 64,575

Two things emerge from this analysis:

1) The producers didn't pay attention to actual birth, death, and abortion figures: the population is, in fact, self-perpetuating, and, more than that, self-augmenting, even with abortion intact.

2) Having said that, outlawing abortion does make a large difference in the numbers of the fleet: In only a 5 year period, you've added almost 4,000 lives by prohibiting abortion.

Now, to conclude, let's say that someone would object: "You can't use US figures! The situations are totally different"

So, for the sake of argument, let's increase the death rate by 25% (12.5), cut the pregnancy rate by approx 25% (say 95 per 1000) and increase the abortion rate by 25% (32 per 1000)

Ultimately, A(T+1)=509A(T)/500

So, even in this case, the population is still self-perpetuating and indeed self-augmenting. However, it does become clear when we start considering more fantastic figures that abortion becomes a larger and larger potential pivot point between life and death.

Dood I just had to seriously take a Advil reading this.... Homework or no Homework it still makes for a good story

[Carewolf]

I don't think the abortion question makes any sense.

Even with todays medical advances we recently invented implants that works like the pill, but without the problem of remembering to take it and the implant can easily be removed again.

The number of abortions in any educated advanced population os irrelevant to the repopulation. In the BG world unvanted pregnancies are probably limited to the Gemini people who might lack the sexual education to use contraceptions.

If Roslins arguments should go anywhere she should outlow contraceptions, especially advanced hormone based ones. Then again this would have a severe impact on all the military female personal as well.

[yaaayoubetcha]

Maybe there's a Soylent Green kind of thing going on.

I have visions of Sharron running around the Galactica shouting: "it's cylons!! soylent green is cylons!!"

[KatG]

Anyone else wonder why TIGHE hasn't been given the Commander's chair of Pegasus? It will be interesting if this comes up in later episodes.

Most likely because he screwed it up so badly when Adama was shot and out of commission. He (Tigh) even said he wasn't cut out for commander nor had he ever wanted to be.

[KatG]

. In my opinion I believe that some viewers would be much happier is Dee was a Caucasian female from Aerelon.

Wow! What an assumption to make. I've read through the whole thread and no one who has said they were against the Dee/Lee relationship ever once mentioned race. For the most part, everyone really seemed to like Dee/Billy and Billy was definitely Caucasian, so I kind of think you're statement falls flat based on that fact alone.

I think what was jarring to me, and maybe to most people is that it seemed really fast. Yes there was a mention of it having been a month since Billy's death and the last episode, but to me opening on Dee/Lee as it did, didn't give the impression that much time had passed. If maybe we had some other scenes first, putting us in the mind frame that time had passed it might have been easier to swallow. Still, a month might seem a bit too soon for some. *shrugs*

While I much prefer Lee/Kara, Lee taking up with Dee isn't a problem at the moment. I mean Kara keeps throwing Anders in his face, so why wouldn't he look elsewhere. I don't think Lee/Dee will last, but I think she's a nice diversion for him at the moment.

[KatG]

Now to my thoughts on the episode:

I really liked this episode. Very engaging and very gripping. After last week's yawn fest, it was quite refreshing.

Loved seeing Kara "acting out", but also glad to see her more back to normal there at the end.

Liked the Kara/Lee interaction. Glad to see he doesn't mind taking her down a notch when she needs it. I'm also glad to see the friendship back by the end.

I had no problem with Lee being made commander. He did a fantastic job saving the Pegasus, he kept his head and made good decisions. He deserved it, and in wartime, promotions happen fast, especially if you have a small number of qualified people.

Looking forward to next week's episode. Looks like Boomer's back and she's not happy.

[Othere]

Easy, they have a very limited pool of qualified people to choose from due to the rest of the fleet being dead and all. Fast promotions like that weren't unheard of during WW2 when they had a similar manpower shortage, so I don't see how Apollo's promotion is such a big deal. The only other officer left more senior than Apollo is probably Colonel Tigh and he wasn't very well recieved when he was temporarily in command of Galactica, which is probably why he didn't get or want command of Pegasus, hence Apollo got offered the position, hence Apollo got "promoted twice".

Actually, this had me thinking the other day. What are the odds of two battlestars surviving the holocaust?
And what are the odds of a few more random battlestars also surviving? I know it would probably be an almost impossible task to locate any other survivors, but there has to be more. If the current fleet under Adama is 59,000 (give or take) and there were 12 colonies, there has to be a number of survivors elsewhere (assuming they have managed to hide/survive this long). If not, it would appear that the gods are certainly smiling on the very few...

[Othere]

What's with the Admiral?! Why did he put Lee in command of the Pegasus? Because he knows some tactics? He knows very little about commanding. Even Garner knew more! Would Lee sacrifice his life to save Pegasus? I doubt it. From episode to episode I hate Apollo more and more. The old man has lost his mind or what?! A flyboy in command? Worser than an engineer if you ask me. And how the hell got flyboy Adama promoted two time in a couple of weeks?! And WHY?! Why wouldn't the Admiral put Tigh in command instead? He has the ability to command a BS with discipline and Pegasus could adapt very fast to it because Cain was like that too. A flyboy in command? Right. Now that's what I call out of the box thinking. Well, it's light years from the box in this case. What will come next? Apollo will candidate for the presidency? Oh, I know: In the next episode (Downloaded) he will be revealed as God and he will lead the fleet to salvation. I hope the Pegasus will be destroyed pretty soon when Lee "God" Adama will be on board.

Because Tigh already frakked up when he was in command. Tigh doesn't want command - we see this in his flashbacks at the beginning of S02 - as much as he can do the job, he still wants someone to lead him.
He cocks up in Fragged and as a result he indirectly has civilian deaths on his hands. Tight is simply not cut out for command - not in a high risk, dangerous position like th eone that they are in.

Lee has proved that he can do the job - he understand the pilots, and he understands orders and he is passionate and compassionate.
Despite the friction beween G and P crews, the men (and women) in Pegasus CIC looke dto him to get them out of the mess their former commander got them into. Lee has a levelhead (though i think he needs Kara to give him a hand at times) and as such does seem perfect for the job - of course, we dont know the Peg crew very weel at all so we dont know if there are any appropriate candidates. From what we have seen, it appears not - the pilots aren't interested, and the CIC crew seem a little hesitant.
Also, it has been proven thusfar, with the whole 'Us and them' thang, that the officers of the Peg can not be trusted with orders - so perhaps that is Adama's reasoning for putting one of his own in as Commander - so that when he gives and order (ie: DO NOT jump it's a trap) it will be carried out.
OTOH maybe he is just trying to break up the Lee/Dee thing with any luck

As for promotions - it is a time of war and it is common for battlefield promotions to be given out as and when needed. It is often the case that some rise quicker than others in wartime through their actions when a vacancy materialises.

[apollo123]

That was so weak! He's the Commander for gods sake! He can't be running off in the middle of a HUGE battle! WEAK!! Even though he was marked for death the minute he was given the Red Shirt of Pegasus command and I saw it coming a mile away, I was still glad to see him go! Sissy. Actually made Lee look like a man in comparison!

Maybe "weak", but if he hadn't run off like that, Pegasus probably would've been destroyed. He knew that the only way to fix the problem was if he went down there and fixed it himself. So yeah, he showed that he was a horrible leader but he was a great engineer (and a brave one), which I think was the point.

[apollo123]

WOW this was a nice surprise after the last few so-so episodes, which I didn't hate but they definitely felt subpar by BSG standards. This was an outstanding episode, probably one of the best of the series.

I loved the battle sequence at the end - very exciting. Pegasus loses another commander OUCH!

I loved the Lee/Starbuck conflict and (kinda) resolution. I just think they do such a great job with their love/hate relationship. They are infinitely more interesting than their original counterparts.

I loved the political aspects of the episode, which was certainly due. I was wondering when they were going to bring up the issue of Roslin being reelected. It makes you realize once again that this isn't Star Trek. These people are real and have the same problems we do. Abortion - WOW. When was the last time a sci-fi show tackled that issue? And not as an allegory either!

One complaint - while I thought Roslin's decision was warranted in some ways, I wish there was more insight into how she made that decision. I could think of a lot of other options she could've went with other than outlawing abortion completely. What about giving women incentive to have children? There are probably a lot of women who *do* want to have children, but may not have the means to do it. Wouldn't it better to give these women the opportunity to have children rather than force women to have children, who will probably end up being unwanted and mistreated?

[ShadowMaat]

For the most part, everyone really seemed to like Dee/Billy and Billy was definitely Caucasian, so I kind of think you're statement falls flat based on that fact alone.

Good point. I never even thought of that, but I'm very much a Dee/Billy shipper. In fact, Dee/Billy and Helo/Boomer are the only ships I really support and both are "mixed race" if you want to degrade the relationships to that base a level.