Resistance (204)

[Nothlit]

I have to agree with everyone else...what an amazing episode. I keep myself spoiler-free because I love being able to sit back after watching the show and just go..."wow!" I have to admit I was a little surprised to see Apollo still so willing to go along with Roslin, and Billy deciding to stay behind was completely unexpected. I hope he won't just disappear from the show. As a couple of other people have mentioned, the ease with which virtually every crew member on board the Galactica sides with Roslin seems a bit unsettling from a military perspective. I'm hoping things straighten back up now that Adama is back in charge.

Speaking of which... I had absolutely no idea Adama was going to wake up in this episode. I was definitely expecting his coma to go on a little bit longer, at least one more episode, so it was so wonderful to hear his voice coming from the doorway. The look on Tigh's face ("Did I just hear what I thought I heard?!") was exactly the look that I had on my face! Can't wait for next week!

[Anubis345]

This was an awsome episode i want to see more like it i can't wait till next friday.

[larocque6689]

Here's excerpts from this week's podcast for "Resistance".

This story was always conceived - we kept calling it the Kent State episode, where Tigh's repressive leadership would essentially result in the deaths of civilians. There would be an explosion of outrage in the fleet. This would prompt the prison break of Laura Roslin, and the start of a counter-coup, or counter-revolutionary movement within the fleet, and at the end of the episode would culminate in the return of Commander Adama to the Galactica. And that was always the concept of the show.
--
Here's the guy that was in love with Boomer. Here's the guy who protected Boomer. Here's the guy that everybody on the ship knew was involved with Boomer. So wouldn't he be under some kind of suspicion?
--
This plotline about Cally ultimately being Jack Ruby, I believe was suggested by our co-executive producer Toni Graphia, who wrote this episode. Toni's idea, in one of her drafts, as we started talking about Sharon, and what would happen to Sharon, somewhere along the line came this idea of a shocking end to Boomer, that Boomer would just get shot and killed. And it was a great instinct... What we wanted to play was a little bit close to the reality of some of these events, as close to reality as we could get, in that there would be tremendous amounts of anger and conflicted emotions about having her on the ship at all. From this point forward, even though Cally's not talking about Sharon, it's essentially that there's that Cylon woman in there, representative of all the problems that we have gone through on Galactica. As a perseon and a representative of her race, everything these people have gone through can be tracked back to her. So wouldn't there be tremendous amounts of ill will toward her?
--
This scene serves a couple of purposes, some things we're going to develop later in the season are beginning her with this relationship between Dualla and Lee. We also liked the idea that Dualla had a special relationship to all the pilots, because she was literally the voice on the phone. She was the voice that called them home, and the voice that told them it was OK, or the voice that told them where danger was, and that she had this almost informal relationship with all the pilots on the ship, and this little scene is a nod in that direction, where they've established this routine each day of her happening to fall in with him as we walks back toward the brig. The guards deal with it, they like her, nothing untoward ever happens. But it is also a subtext that maybe there's something else here, and this little look here at the end from Kandyse.
--
There has to be a real marriage here. There has to be some back and forth psychologically of what she provides to him, in the way of some kind of comfort. And yet at the same time, that she's "comforting him", there's also a bit of the twist of the knife, and there's also a bit of manipulation. Some of it conscious on her part, some of it unconscious. I think there's a part of Ellen that doesn't really understand what it is she does. I don't think she consciously is trying to get him to do specific things, so much as she does react to the moment, and reacts to weakness in a very predatory way. She sees weakness in her husband, and it makes her almost go on the attack, almost like a pack mentality kind of thing.
--
There was also this idea that Toni and I discussed. We were talking about, who are these resistance guys, where do they come from? Are they just going to be a bunch of other army guys, because that's not that interesting. Are they survivalists? That's almost interesting. Then somewhere in our conversation, one of us popped out with, maybe they're basketball players or something. And we both just started laughing. And I thought, that's actually kind of great. I kind of liked the absurd quality of that, that these guys would be a pyramid team. And then there was something that started to make sense. Like, oh, it's a pyramid team, and they're out doing high altitude training, they're in the mountains, that's why they've survived. It means they're not like crackerjack army special forces guys, which makes them interesting as well. And pyramid being the game that [is part of] Kara's backstory -- she wanted to be a pyramid player before she became a fighter pilot. It provided a certain connectivity to her story. And it was also great to opportunity play the attitude involved, and see the game. We decided to go for it. It's just one of those odd, absurd moments, that in the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust, that you might happen across the L.A. Lakers or something.
--
This little running thing with Corporal Venner, which comes to head here of course, when he ultimately aids in the escape of Laura Roslin. We talked for quite a while about who Venner was, and Venner sort of being representative of a more spiritual type of person in the fleet. He comes from Geminon. We've established that Gemininon is more "fundamentalist" planet in our mythos, and he would have a special connection to Laura, and that religious connection was going to override his sense of duty to the command. But you're seeing the whole command starting to fracture along different lines anyway under the leadership of Tigh. And I think the episode in some ways underlines how fragile this situation is. What's important to remember is that there is no higher power for these people to deal with. There's no fleet back there, there's no headquarters to deal with, there's no judicial system, there's no governmental structure at all. There's no replacements coming for any of these guys, there out by themselves. So essentially, right or wrong, anything that happens, they're going to wake up the same people tomorrow and nobody's going to change any of that.
--
At a much later date, I started going, this really isn't Kent State, it's a misleading type for what this episode is about, and what happens here. A more accurate description of this sequence is the Boston Massacre, in that a group of soldiers pinned in a situation that they're unprepared for, and a tragedy happens. In the Boston Massacre, a group of British redcoats, before the outbreak of the Revolutionary war, were backed up against a building in Boston with a mob, and the mob grew ugly and started throwing things. The situation got out of control, and somebody in one of these situations, like in that situation aboard the Gideon, squeezes off a shot. And it's really kind of key to the idea that you'll note we didn't show you who squeezed off the shot, where the first shot came from. Was it one of the civilians? Was it a Marine? How did that Marine fire off the shot? It doesn't matter, but the mistake is made. One shot goes off, and then the other Marines, in this situation they were completely unprepared for, fire back on instinct and people are killed. That's not Kent State. Kent State is a very different political situation, a very different setup. It carries with it a great, heavy political connotation. This is truly a little bit more the Boston Massacre, which then became a propaganda thing. The Colonists used it as a weapon ("There was a massacre, they fired indiscriminately into this crowd"), but the truth is actually more complex.
--
This little beat, I love it because it's so oddly twisted. What is going on with these two? What kind of relationship do they have? There's some vaguely violent sexual thing that happens between Tigh and his wife. You get the feeling this ain't the first time, and there's tragedy in the air, and then there's anger and then there's sex. It's interesting sometimes how those dots are connected.
--
He comes over, and he seems to be taking blood tests from Tyrol, Tyrol collapses, and suddenly "He's dying, Sharon. He has moments to live, and I want to know XYZ." Baltar has suddenly gone much darker, and it's all laid down, the pieces are there. Cally getting in his face, Tigh getting in his face, and the pressures that he's under, and the constant harping from Six. And finally this man starts to turn. And from this point forward in this season, he will slowly but surely start turning in a different direction. It doesn't mean he's become and out and out villain or bad guy, but certainly he's started to take a more aggressive, less kid-glove approach with everybody, and he's starting to advance his own agenda very strongly.
--
I'll be trying to get back do "Fragged" at some point. I think "Fragged" is one of my favorite shows of the whole season, I'd love to do commentary on that. I've been playing around with doing podcasts, things for you guys on other topics. There's a podcast report in my car on the way to work, I've been trying to record writer's meetings with varying degrees of success. Because of the audio quality, you may or may not be able to hear. I'm going to also attempt to get back to my blog, which is still neglected, and which "tortures me", because I feel I've made a promise to keep that up, and I just haven't been able to, as much as I would really like to.

[Vorlon-1]

That makes sense cause that was what I was implying, I just didn’t express that very well. He’s been there all along and his presence is felt in all of these episodes, he just wasn’t out there with that commanding voice of his.
.

I understand exactly what you meant. His lack of a presence in itself was such a powerful driving force of events. Just so hard to put into words


8 Cylons in the fleet. She either lied to save the chief or it really was deep in her mind and if so then that would mean currently. There is no way she could know how many would end up in the misc fleet of ships ahead of time. There must be some sort of communication between them all and if there is she would know about the spacing and the missing number 6. The question is......What is Baltar to do with this information? I don't think he's gonna be telling the Commander, I think he's got his own agenda (whatever Six has in store for him that is )

[Easter Lily]

Battlestar Galactica must be the ultimate assault on the senses... at least where television is concerned. No matter whether you love or hate the characters, they suck you right in and then spit you back out leaving you in a daze. The characters are really what makes it interesting for me because if it wasn't for them, the show would degnerate into a soapfest.

I absolutelybloomingly love this episode but I also realise that it couldn't have come about without the last three... LS, I absolutely agreed with everything you said in your analysis but then we seldom disagree, do we...

Can I say first of all that I am so relieved to see Adama up and about? Yes, I cheered in an ungirly fashion but after the last three episodes, I was ready to throw something large and heavy at Col Tigh. It is becoming obvious the show isn't the same without him and everything is in such an unholy mess with him incapacitated. The end of the world may be nigh but Cmdr Adama is makes us believe that with him at the helm the colonists will somehow make it through the worst.

Doc Cottle is becoming a favourite. That snarky humour is welcome relief to all that grimness... A doctor who smokes and tells it like it is, is a refreshing change from all that deception, manipulation and backstabbing.

Phew... and that's just my preamble...

I see these first four episodes as one continuous thread and it is a fascinating if not grim study of leadership. The issue of leadership is especially important here because the fleet is now leaderless... the military leader is down, and the civilian leader is ousted so the remnant colonists are scattered and must look within to find others to lead the way.
Col Tigh... poor man... I don't hate him by the way... is unable to rise to the occasion. He is an experienced military officer but he is unable to lead or command. He doesn't understand people or consider the consequences of his actions, neither do his actions inspire confidence, therefore, he cannot garner respect from his subordinates. Which obviously doesn't help if one has to erm... lead. Of course it doesn't help that he has a wife who makes Lady Macbeth look like a girl scout. With her whispering naughty nothings in his ear and an alcohol addled brain, the man doesn't have a chance.

Crashdown... poor boy... Don't hate him either... Another good example that rank does not equal ability to command. A person who doesn't do well in a pressure cooker... not good with people... and not exactly a calming influence. So he crashes. I don't think he was crazy, by the way, but I do think that he felt responsible for the deaths of the other men who seemed to have died for nothing. I'm somewhat interested in the theory that someone suggested in this thread that Baltar is the turncoat not Crash.... hmmm... have to think about it some more.

Chief Tyrol... I'm beginning to actually like... Love isn't exactly a many splendoured thing... but a cylon. And yet there's a quiet dignity about him which showed in the tribunal episode, which I liked. His actions then and in these last four episodes covered, for me, a multitude of sins. The man at least understands people and knows what they must be feeling. It's not hard to see why he inspires so much loyalty among his people.

Lee Adama... sigh... he's one of my favourites... so there's not much he does that is wrong in my eyes... until this episode. "Even good people make bad decisions," so says Ron D Moore... While I understand why he scoots off with Madam Prez, I don't agree with it. I'm with LS and Billy on this... That said, I think it's pretty consistent with who he is. I'm not surprised he did it but I'm disappointed that he had to... especially just before Dad wakes up...
But it doesn't mean that he is a bad leader... on the contrary, he is a very good leader. And people know that... at least Dee does anyway. He's a good CAG (observe his own "cheer squad" in the briefing room), a reliable officer, and a good man between a rock and a hard place. Note the parallels between Lee commanding a small group in Ep 2 (which was also very good) and Crashdown doing the same. A small group of jittery individuals facing centurions but Lee, in spite of his own fears, inspires confidence while Crash instills more fear and distrust. Furthermore, for Lee to pull off this escape, he had to have not only the nouse but also the affection of his co-conspirators.

If BSG has a weakness, it is the way it tries to integrate the mythical aspects with the main storyline. At this stage it feels too much to me like an add on and I don't feel that the writers are very comfortable delving into its ramifications. But I won't jump on them too hard because I'm still hoping that there's a lot more to it than some retrodden Messianic myth prattled off by people who don't seem convinced by it. While I'm a little bit intrigued by Roslin's messianic status... I'm not very convinced by it. I don't know if she is either and yet she's doing her darndest to tear the fleet apart to get to where she has to. It seemed rather sudden to begin with and now the Quorum of 12 are throwing themselves at her feet. Euwwww... Yeah, not too convinced... Now, I'm not sure if that's deliberate because I do wonder at the back of my mind from time to time if the cylons aren't pulling strings behind the scenes to get "the prophecy fulfilled" because they want to blow Earth up too. I suppose that possibility will always exist.
All this to say that Roslin is far more interesting as the teacher turned politician than she is as politician turned Messiah... well, I'm not buying it... yet...

But a great start to the season nonetheless...

[ylai]

They are the only thing that stands between them and the Cylons.

[...]

Principles are a great thing to have, and like I said I admire Lee for having them and standing up for them and I even agree with them in our real life setting, but the people on BSG live in a very different reality.

This is a strange perspective. Generally, all TV series with potential social criticsm built into them do not really happen in an "alternative reality" in term of their message. This should be especially true for BSG.

The military government provides protection against the terrorists (the Cylons). The democratic one does not unless it has access to a military. You don’t negotiate with terrorists, which is the only option that the civilian government would have if the military ceased to exist. That is if the terrorists didn’t blow them up before they ever made it to the negotiating table.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree here. And in fact, you probably missed one important message of the past few episodes. The military government in BSG is dangerous because they do not provided the colonist the most critical enemy beside the cylons: the human themselves and in fact the military.

Just look at the alcoholic Tigh in power.

In fact, you even missed the point Cdr. Adama made in the miniseries: It is not about the bare survival, it is also about having a purpose. What is the purpose to survive and ruled by a rampant (and drunk) dictatorship?

[dec55]

Grace was awesome in this episode......I am so glad there are a ton
of Sharons out there to keep Grace on the show....

[kiwigater]

awesome awesome awesome ep
I too keep waiting for the ground to fall away from under us - how can they possibly keep up such powerful, wonderful eps for the whole season??!?

Yes, I'm very very glad to see Tigh go, or at least have less of him, I'm sort of sympathetic to the character (yeah, with a wife like that... ). I was getting a bit bored of seeing him frak things up even more, altho it really is like watching a train wreck in slow motion, I can't help but watch!

Overwhelmingly glad to see the Old Man back Unsuprised at Roslin's plans to get off the ship, but taken aback at Lee's willingness to help her, and the lengths to which he went

Tryol is fast becoming my fav character - human and fallible, but with a huge heart, love him! I felt so sorry for him when Galactica Boomer died in his arms - how conflicted must he feel! Altho I couldn't help thinking that at that moment her consciousness was being dl-ed into a new body....

It was great to get back to Caprica, I do wonder how all these threads will get tied together eventually. Having Starbuck on Caprica seems like a great disservice to the character, she's wasted there... well not really, but that's the way it feels a bit

aiiiii, military vs civilian government.... wow, there's a dilemma that can't really be proven. My own feelings are that it was absurd to reconstitute the civilian government so soon after the initial attack. On the run, under attack and in dire circumstances hardly seems the time to be focusing on civilian political struggles However, having done so, I don't feel it's right for the military to overthrow that government just because they don't like the decisions that are being made, or who's in power. But on the other hand (yes, I have a lot of hands ), as we've seen, Tigh is completely inadequate as a leader, and even Adama's decisions haven't always had the good of the colony, but the good of the ship and HIS people at their heart.

see, way too complicated! Really, they all seem to spend way to much time focused on petty things, when they are in danger of being completely eliminated at any moment.....

[minh]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree here. And in fact, you probably missed one important message of the past few episodes. The military government in BSG is dangerous because they do not provided the colonist the most critical enemy beside the cylons: the human themselves and in fact the military.

Just look at the alcoholic Tigh in power.

In fact, you even missed the point Cdr. Adama made in the miniseries: It is not about the bare survival, it is also about having a purpose. What is the purpose to survive and ruled by a rampant (and drunk) dictatorship?

I wholeheatedly agree. I believe that we should follow our conscience moreso than rules. How many Nazis excused themselves crimes because they were just following orders. If Tigh ordered you to murder Roslin, because she's a political opposition, would you do it? What if you were forced to strave her and witness her waste away? Will you follow your conscience or orders? In the end, the only important thing is that you must take responsibility for whatever actions you did. I'm not sure Tigh will take responsibility for what he did. Adama, I don't think he really accepts that it was his fault for ordering the coup and placing Tigh in charge. Lee and Roslin, I believe they know their actions have consquences, good and bad, and are fully commited to take responsibility for whatever happens. That is what make them admirable; in a Socrates sort of way.

I could go even further and argue that there is no right nor wrong. No self, no reality, no consciousness and no free will. Then everything is pointless. But that's going outside of this discusion, and wandering towards philosophy.

[Easter Lily]

This is a strange perspective. Generally, all TV series with potential social criticsm built into them do not really happen in an "alternative reality" in term of their message. This should be especially true for BSG.

I think what LS means is that BSG doesn't have a fully functioning democracy. The fleet is in a rather unusual situation. More often than not security needs to take precedence over political niceties.
Consider also that Roslin has now been crowned Messiah of the colonists and is doing her utmost to get the prophecy fulfilled... that's not exactly the kind of thing we read about everyday.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree here. And in fact, you probably missed one important message of the past few episodes. The military government in BSG is dangerous because they do not provided the colonist the most critical enemy beside the cylons: the human themselves and in fact the military.

Just look at the alcoholic Tigh in power.

In fact, you even missed the point Cdr. Adama made in the miniseries: It is not about the bare survival, it is also about having a purpose. What is the purpose to survive and ruled by a rampant (and drunk) dictatorship?

The military is not the problem... people are the problem... or in this case individuals are. Col Tigh may be incompetent but he was right about the fact Roslin caused the loss of a key military asset. She acted against all advice given to her because she believed that she is the key to humanity's salvation. Whether you believe she is, is one thing, but don't forget she manipulated Starbuck to get her to go to Caprica. As Billy pointed out, she undermined all the goodwill and trust that had been built up between the military and civil authority. It could just as easily be said that she is as dangerous as Tigh.

[yaaayoubetcha]

I'm goin to be in the minority here and say that i thought it was a pretty weak ep.

The writers had invested too much time in Caprica for Helo to not meet other people there, so Kara is sent back and then they meet 'the resistance.' Which turns out to be a streetball team. Hmmm

And for the streetball team to think they're doing something pro-active when it's been demonstrated that the cylons apparently have complete control of the planet, just makes me think there's an obvious setup for the final crushing defeat of the planet when the streetball team and it's followers are finally wiped out allowing Kara and Helo to make an escape. I suspect the cyclons know they're there and are just using them as a psych experiment for whatever purposes like they did Helo.

Also, did anybody see if they took the Arrow from the hummer before it got shot to pieces? I saw them both grab a lot of guns, but no humanity saving arrows.

Also, I think the writers have been hammering away at Tigh and his use of alcohol to try and distract the audience from the fact that Roslin is essentially an opium addict. I think shortly after Adama returns there will be the counterpoint and something will happen that causes people to question the leadership of a person that's hittin the root every day. Perhaps Kobol isn't Kobol but just another cylon ploy. Who knows. Just for basic story telling, they cannot have a fractured fleet for too long. This is why i think Roslin's religious advisor is a cylon. Said it last season and I'm sticking with it. Best way to get a leader to follow bad advice is under the guise of drugs and religion.

It'll be interesting to see how the split fleet that seems to have been layed out in the previews plays out, but, this ep, as whole, i thought was pretty weak.

[keshou]

I think what LS means is that BSG doesn't have a fully functioning democracy. The fleet is in a rather unusual situation. More often than not security needs to take precedence over political niceties.
Consider also that Roslin has now been crowned Messiah of the colonists and is doing her utmost to get the prophecy fulfilled... that's not exactly the kind of thing we read about everyday.

I agree with LS that the fleet needs the military way more than the democracy at this point. But what was established in the miniseries is that there's a place for a democratic voice to temper the military decisions - even in wartime. This fleet wouldn't even be together if Roslin hadn't insisted on rounding up as many civilian ships as she could.

I was totally behind Adama in Kobol. I though Roslin was acting as a fool - she's dying and taking drugs that make her hallucinate and then sending one of the fleets best military assets (Starbuck) off to chase a dream. Without Adama's permission. But then Adama pushed it too far - as he's wont to do - when he sent troops to her ship. There was nothing good that was going to come from that. Even the bridge crew didn't seem to back his decision.

However - I still think Adama is the best strategic thinker and the best leader. And they are at war. He's the one who can get the most survivors from Point A to Point B. The military naturally takes the upper hand in these situations. Roslin has gone from providing a different "voice" in the proceedings to setting herself up as a messiah for the people. Dangerous stuff. But would she have ended up there without Adama's actions in Kobol? And Tigh's reign of incompetence?

I think Billy staying behind is interesting. He was in a position to steer Roslin in a different direction - during the whole incident in Kobol I&II - and just wasn't strong enough to do it. But he's also one of the few who really knows how unstable she is. He went up a notch in my book. Although staying with Dee probably figured in there as well.

I feel Apollo's acting on his principles. Even in the miniseries he seemed to believe very strongly in having a civilian government to provide a balance to the military - even in a fleet that's on the run. But I don't think he would be backing Roslin and helping her escape if he hadn't been pushed in that direction by Tigh's actions. I DO think Lonestar made a good point up the thread that perhaps ousting Tigh would have been a better choice - he certainly isn't popular. But maybe Apollo didn't feel he had enough support to perform a military coup. Whereas a few conspirators could cause Roslin's escape easily enough.

I've also wondered if Apollo decided to take off with Roslin because he can't face his father.

Whatever happens you're seeing everyone choose their destiny. Apollo is striking out on his own - against his father. Baltar is becoming a man with an agenda.

It's going to be very, very interesting to see how Adama deals with all this.

[ylai]

Let me try to defend some of my sentences:

The military is not the problem... people are the problem... or in this case individuals are. Col Tigh may be incompetent but he was right about the fact Roslin caused the loss of a key military asset.

The thing about Cdr. Adama/Col. Tigh that annoys me most is that they did not get the concept that people make concious decisions. To fly back to Caprica is a concious decision by Starbuck - and I agree with minh here.

If you take this point of view, the complete opposite is Cdr. Adama, who made the decision to make finding Earth as the "purpose" of the fleet, yet he does not stand behind it, especially all the consequences.

She acted against all advice given to her because she believed that she is the key to humanity's salvation. Whether you believe she is, is one thing, but don't forget she manipulated Starbuck to get her to go to Caprica.

I disagree. She did not manipulate, she presented the situation as it appeared to her to Starbuck. This manipulation tale comes from Cdr. Adama and is simply not true. I would welcome you to quote verbally where she supposed have "manipulated" her.

I though Roslin was acting as a fool - she's dying and taking drugs that make her hallucinate and then sending one of the fleets best military assets (Starbuck) off to chase a dream. Without Adama's permission.

Also here: The decision to fly to Caprica is a decision Starbuck made by her own concious decision. Pres. Roslin only merely presented the fact as it appeared to her - and not as a "fool". You can clearly see (already indicated at that point, and more the next episodes) that her view is shared by a significant part of the fleet, who are definitively not taking Kamala.

And also here you forgot the "dream" is triggered by the decision of Cdr. Adama himself. Putting Roslin in brig for a course of events that has been triggered by himself is a sign of extremely weak personality.

[LoneStar1836]

Generally, all TV series with potential social criticsm built into them do not really happen in an "alternative reality" in term of their message. This should be especially true for BSG.

I agree, but what I’m saying is that at this very moment, I, myself, am not living on a civilian spaceship fleeing through space from mechanical machines that just committed genocidal mass murder. Now if that is not a different reality, then I don’t know what is. So yes, while the social commentary is very much relevant to our reality, these people on BSG are facing a much vastly different physical reality, and thus I do think that some actions and principles that would be completely rational in our reality, have to be judged based on BSG’s reality. Thus I can’t agree with what Lee or Roslin did in helping to widen the rift in the fleet by fleeing, and thus putting the fleet in even greater danger. In my opinion, the people of BSG are in much greater need of security from a military force than having a functioning civilian democracy.

I think what LS means is that BSG doesn't have a fully functioning democracy. The fleet is in a rather unusual situation. More often than not security needs to take precedence over political niceties.
Consider also that Roslin has now been crowned Messiah of the colonists and is doing her utmost to get the prophecy fulfilled... that's not exactly the kind of thing we read about everyday.

Bingo! That is exactly what I’m trying to say. Thanks for saying it better than I could.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree here. And in fact, you probably missed one important message of the past few episodes. The military government in BSG is dangerous because they do not provided the colonist the most critical enemy beside the cylons: the human themselves and in fact the military.

That may be the message you got from those episodes, but it’s not the one I did. Though actually I’m not quite sure what you are saying there. Are you saying that a military government is not capable of protecting humans from themselves or from the possible abuses of the military towards civilians?

I guess that would all have to depend on how one actually feels about the military. Now, me, I personally will always support the U.S. military and its troops, so of course I have a biased view of the military because I see it in a positive light and have high esteem for my military. So I don’t automatically assume that a military is an entity that can’t be trusted. I trust my military. Now I don’t have blind trust in them, but I generally believe in what they do and that they try their best to do the right thing. Thus I believe that the military on BSG is trying its hardest to do the right thing.

So back to my original statement.

The military government provides protection against the terrorists (the Cylons). The democratic one does not unless it has access to a military. You don’t negotiate with terrorists, which is the only option that the civilian government would have if the military ceased to exist. That is if the terrorists didn’t blow them up before they ever made it to the negotiating table.

Situation: I’m living on a civilian ship in space with killer machines chasing me. Do I want a democratic government, with no military capacity, “protecting” my civil rights or do I want a military government providing me physical protection? This is the choice you are going to have to make in the next episode because President Roslin is forcing you to choose sides. You can have your basic civil right of having representation in a civilian government if you go with her, but no military protection OR you can remain under the protection of Galactica which is better equipped to provide for your physical security from the most pressing enemy which is the Cylons (not other civilians or the military, imo) but not have a voice because there is no civilian government.

I still believe security outweighs my need to have a voice in the decisions of how business of the fleet is conducted. In this particular situation, I would trust the military to look out for my needs.

The only reason the military in “Resistance” endangered and ended up accidentally killing 4 civilians was because the civilians of that ship refused to re-supply Galactica, otherwise the military would have never been sent to that civilian ship in the first place. These civilians were upset and rightly so, but I think they made the wrong choice in forcing Galactica’s hand.

The only other time that I thought the military endangered the fleet (other than not forcing Tigh to step down) was when Adama refused to give up on finding Starbuck. He let personal feeling hinder his judgment and thus the President was needed to step in and tell the military that this was not what was best for the protection of the rest of the civilians in the fleet. Otherwise, I think the military has made the best decisions that it can in protecting the fleet. So in my opinion, BSG’s military has pretty much done what was in the best interest of protecting the civilians of the fleet and thus I have no reason to believe that it couldn’t continue to make critical decisions on my behalf. Therefore, I am willing to relinquish my voice in a civilian government in order to remain under Galactica’s protection. I just hope and pray I’m not on one of those ships that chooses to follow Roslin and jump to Kobol (if that indeed is what scenario is going to play out next week).

Just look at the alcoholic Tigh in power.

And that is why I think Lee should have considered the option of forcing Tigh out of power. Imo, that would have been the option that was in the best interest of the entire fleet. Not splitting the fleet in hopes of forcing the military to back down and reinstate Roslin. I would hope that Lee would believe that once his father was in a position to make decisions, Adama would reinstate a civilian government. Now I highly doubt that Roslin would regain her position but a civilian gov. would be in place, and that is the underlying principle for Lee’s dissension - the civilian government had been dismantled. Now I’m not certain that is what Adama is going to do, but it is what I believe he would do.

In fact, you even missed the point Cdr. Adama made in the miniseries: It is not about the bare survival, it is also about having a purpose. What is the purpose to survive and ruled by a rampant (and drunk) dictatorship?

I didn’t miss that point. I actually made that point in my other post. It was in the paragraph that I had in spoiler tags.

[ylai]

Are you saying that a military government is not capable of protecting humans from themselves or from the possible abuses of the military towards civilians?

I guess that would all have to depend on how one actually feels about the military. Now, me, I personally will always support the U.S. military and its troops, so of course I have a biased view of the military because I see it in a positive light and have high esteem for my military. So I don’t automatically assume that a military is an entity that can’t be trusted.

I think the most important thing I would like comment on this is: The military in BSG is not the US armed forces. And BSG with Cdr. Adama is not BSG with Col. Tigh. Just to make it clear: My comments are in the context the entities are not to be mixed up.

And even our world is not just the U.S. I think if you are familiar with some of the totalitarian coutries in our world, you will think differently about the military in the sense how it is sometimes (ab)used by the persons in power as always that "nice". History does not always play out as it was in North America.

This is the reason why people have democracy.

The only other time that I thought the military endangered the fleet (other than not forcing Tigh to step down) was when Adama refused to give up on finding Starbuck.

The most questionable decision was to dissolve the Quorum. By all means: this is the legitimately elected government, and neither Tigh or Adama has any right to dissolve them.

Now I highly doubt that Roslin would regain her position but a civilian gov. would be in place, and that is the underlying principle for Lee’s dissension - the civilian government had been dismantled. Now I’m not certain that is what Adama is going to do, but it is what I believe he would do.

Please explain what you mean. Roslin has virtually the support of all of the Quorum members. The support among the actual citizens will be hardly different. Do you mean by "dismantle" to install a puppet civilian government?

You know, look in the history. There are many cases things went this way. The world is not the U.S.