Occupation/Precipice (301-302)

[Keithustus]

Some unresolved issues in this discussion:

Gaeta: Anyone who thinks Gaeta is a collaborator or dupe, congratulate him on tricking you and the Cylons. While seeming to be a sycophant, he has been leaving all those wonderful notes in the drawer. My friends and I argued while watching S2 finale why such an honorable guy would work for that scum, Baltar. Answer: Gaeta is so courageous that he knows that to do the best good, he should try to be Baltar's "Billy." Everyone remember when Billy chewed out Roslin? I think the flashbacks will show that happening during the occupation. As for his unpopularity on New Caprica now, I don't think it will be hard, once the internment is over, for word to spread that Gaeta was Deep Throat. There might be some brief instances, or major ones if the writers want to be jerks about it, where people will hold his Baltar connection against him, but he'll be alright.

Ellen: why is Ellen Tigh a sellout? Doesn't she know that in her position, she's supposed to tell Col Tigh about the Cylon's demand for information so he can set up an ambush to happen at the time and location that she reports to the Cylons?

Iraq / Current Events: if Ron Moore says, "let's make an episode about insurgency.....and not make it anything like Iraq, Jordan, Israel," that is pretty much impossible.

Roslin / Zarek: the gunfire you hear as the credits comes up isn't cylon-sounding gunfire. I've got $20 on it being the CPD officers ambushing the Centurions. We don't need any hiding under bodies crap. What Jammer's role in this is, if any, I cannot determine.

Now, things I want:

1. Sharon Downloaded "Boomer" to meet Sharon Agathon. BTW: to make her a LT again....= crazy? As if she weren't wearing the "uniform" when she shot Cdr Adama. BTW, someone asked, did Sharon Downloaded ever go and find Tyrol? Flashback anyone?

2. Roslin and Tom Zarek work together...expand on very entertaining conversation at end of this episode.

3. Does Baltar know that Caprica Six is the one he knew before, and if so, why does he still have Six-In-Baltar's-Head, aka SIBH? Will we get to see whether there was any interaction between Baltar and Caprica Six in the forecasted flashbacks? And where the frak is Baltar-in-Six's-Head? He was GREAT!

[Erised]

holy frak! .... that's all I've got to say

[Easter Lily]

Good two parter... but it doesn't have the wow factor which I've come to expect from the show. Still it does pick up quite nicely from the previous season.
Lots of moral and ethical issues up for grabs here, mostly done in a neutral, non-editorializing way.

Love the father-son scenes... still my most favourite thing about the show.

Kara and Leoben... meh... don't know where they're going with that one.

[ToasterOnFire]

Overall I'm very pleased with the opener. Never really dragged and the ending made me want more. Great start to the season!

Random stuff:

-Love Gaeta with long curly hair.

-Love Roslin's handwriting, and the whole scene between her and Baltar in the prison. Loved her little scene with Zarek where he commented on how she should have rigged the election. MM never ceases to amaze me.

-Baltar, Baltar, Baltar. He's most definitely not a hardass, that's clear when he tries to play tough cop with Roslin. But he's between a rock and a hard place with the cylons, and I can't really get infuriated at him for signing the execution order. I loathed him before and after the election, but after the cylons took over and he realized what a puppet he was, I feel a bit of pity. Well played.

-More fatsuit!Lee, heh. And he apparently got married to Dee? Their relationship spends more time offscreen or on the cutting room floor, which doesn't bode well for the long term. That's fine with me - I never saw the chemistry between Lee and Dee and stopped liking Dee when she went after Lee while keeping Billy as a security blanket.

-Speaking of relationships that don't do it for me, Cally/Tyrol is still squicking me out. Seeing Cally with baby, when the actress tends to look under 18, adds to the squick.

-Gah, all of the scenes between Starbuck and Leoban were creepy as hell. Why does he want her love anyway? He doesn't need it to have her child, he did that already. And now I know the cylon's plan - to dump cute as hell cylon/human hybrid kiddies on the humans and wait for the maternal instinct to take over. No duh she's not going to instantly coddle some kid that was forced from her and is half cylon (and BSG is pulling off that plotline SO much better than you did, SG1). I really hope Starbuck was bluffing at the end, because her sudden turn toward caring for the child and Leoban rang false. Bully for her for killing him with the chopsticks/tuning fork/whatever that was, and apparently killing him earlier with a steak knife.

-Tigh is a badass, no doubt about that, but his actions here and in the webisodes seem too extreme to me. To him, the cylons are the enemy to be destroyed, and too bad for any innocent humans that get killed in the process. And everytime I see his eyepatch I just want to say "Arrrrr" at the end of all of his sentences.

-Interesting plotline with Ellen. She's not just screwing the cylon for her own gain, she's doing it for Tigh. Quite a turnaround from her selfish actions in s1 and s2.

-The scenes between Adama and Lee were iffy for me, and I can't really explain why. Adama is pissed and cranky, sure, but something was off with Lee or the whole exchange.

-Great moment when the Galactica heard the first message from the surface. Poignant and emotional.

-What's the point of suicide bombing your opponent if they don't really die? Just to kill Baltar and send a message? Because I would think that bombing your own is a pretty foolish idea if you're all that's left of humanity. It was nice to see that Roslin didn't agree with the tactics either.

-When I saw Jammer after the bombing my first thought was that he's a cylon. But apparently the bomb didn't kill as many people as the

[ShadowMaat]

For all those yapping on about how "BSG doesn't shirk from politics" and "they show all sides" and "it's supposed to be realistic" and blah blah blah... Is that supposed to make it okay? Is that supposed to make me magically change my mind and say, "Golly gee! You're right! I love it after all!"

No. Wanna know why? Because if I hate something, I hate it no matter what and all the excuses and elaborate explanations and condescending little "get over it" comments in the world aren't going to change that. If I don't like something, I don't like it and the last time I checked, there was nothing wrong with that. I happened to like a number of things in the ep, but the political grandstanding (as I saw it) was not one of those things.

As for the sex scenes... I've never liked them, either, and when they came on last night I changed the channel. Doesn't matter if it was in the first few minutes or the last few, it was too much for my admittedly prudish tastes. And since it's my opinion, it can't be wrong. Folks are more than welcome to disagree, but I'd appreciate not being made to feel like some kind of idiot/traitor for NOT liking something.

[Hatusu]

well, at least a good hour or more got lost to poor broadcast signals, and it only appeared on the Sci-Fi channel. None of the other TV network channels were affected, including USA. Weird!...

PS: still got the same *jamming* / BAD reception signal problem... and Doctor Who is now on as a wasted viewing segment, because of the same BAD reception problem (and only to this particular TV channel!). Someone out there don't like Sci-Fi...

Maybe it's the CYLONS!...or it could be the DALEKS!

[Hatusu]

I've registered for these forums JUST To respectfully disagree, as I can't get the bad taste of tonight's BSG out of my mouth...when I can predict what's going to happen next with startling accuracy, there's a problem.

The 'liberal preaching', I do believe, IS supposed to be at face value. ....
Edit: Oh, and I'm sure Roslin survived....when in a fairly sloppy execution line like that, all you have to do is duck behind someone else and you can get lucky if you fall and play possum...

These episodes were Ra Ra propaganda, but I believe that they are the set-up for what's to come. As for Roslin, Zarek was pulling her back, so you and others could be right.

[titans]

Maybe it's the CYLONS!...or it could be the DALEKS!

Could be he needs anew T.V.

[Hatusu]

Oh man BSG is the best show on televison, all i can do now is think back to the naysayers insisting back when lay down your burdens aired that they'll never make the one year jumo work, HA....

Leoben has gotta be Manipulating Kara, I mean its possible there not, but the birth of a hybrid takes away from Boomers baby being important, and since they keep bringing it up, i assume its not a hybrid at all, and yes I know some of you out there are gonna read this and just for the sake of argueing are gonna give me some dumbass reason y it is, like "oh well maybe its not important cause it was created in a lab using a surrogate unlike Boomer's" or "It wasn't created outta love like Helo and Boomer" no, thats insanity. I see two ways in this either starbuck knows its not hers, or thinks it is but just doesn't care and sees this as a chance to escape, or is all cool with it but is gonna find out otherwise, and be pissed. Besides that girls way to old to be from Starbucks egg, shes like 3, the Farm was maybe just over a years a half ago...maybe almost two, and u got take into account 9 months a pregnancy...actually my personal theory is that its one of the Cylon models, its always been asked if there are any children models, probably like an 11 or 12...

I was trying to think of what Starbuck could have taken from the girl. She could have scraped some skin for a DNA sample. I think she will use this opportunity to escape.

Even if they used her egg, they could have taken a fertilized egg. It also might be her husband's child, but I agree. She seems too old. Maybe she's supposed to be 2.

[Hatusu]

"I won't be going, for security reasons".

How ELSE would he know about the leak? Brilliant deduction.

I would love it if it were Baltar, but I don't think so.

[Melyanna]

Last night I didn't like these episodes much. I've thought about it more now, and... I still don't like these episodes much.

Don't get me wrong, there was a lot in them that I liked. Roslin's scenes were brilliant (though frankly I question that a woman of her intelligence would be keeping a diary about the resistance), and for the first time ever, I adored every moment with Tigh. But there were so many bad choices in these two episodes that just sank them for me.

Starbuck's plot did not fit in this episode. I will admit that I do not share the fandom's fascination with Kara Thrace, but I believe this is an objective opinion. The plot was weird and crack-induced, which I kind of roll my eyes at in this show, but I will admit that most of it was done well. (Except that it was probably a bit too obvious that she was faking at the end. At least, I didn't buy her in the whole Stockholm Syndrome thing.) However, it simply did not fit in this episode.

Nor did Galactica, at least in the first episode. Last season's first few episodes suffered from the writers' apparent need to visit every character in every episode. In this case, as with last year, there are simply too many characters in too many places (and this year, in too many relationships) to visit them all in an hour. I felt like Occupation should have ended with the people on the ground making contact with a raptor, and that being the first inkling of the fleet still being out there and looking for them. As much as I adore Adama, his scenes in this just felt wildly out of place. To have him serving tea to Sharon while everyone on New Caprica was going through such misery was incredibly frustrating.

I liked seeing the Cylon politics, and I liked that Baltar is now obviously torn up about everything he's done. I liked Gaeta as the informant, and I hope he survives. I have my doubts. The business with the resistance was done well, and I think they managed to steer clear of preachiness by not having several huge scenes devoted to the ethics of suicide bombings. There were a few, with different characters involved (including the bad guys), but they were done well enough that I didn't feel like I was being hit over the head with it. (Despite the fact that I think they were leaning a little too heavily on current events with the insurgency.) And Tigh was amazing in all of this, even though I agreed with Roslin. The final scenes with Zarek and Roslin were great too.

I also really liked the aforementioned tea scene, but I think it underscores the fundamental problem with the episodes. The scene was written and acted very well (which surprised me, frankly, because I've not been impressed with Grace Park before), but it and the rest of the Galactica scenes simply did not serve the plot very well. And I'm not sure how they would have fit at all, unless they hadn't skipped ahead four months past the invasion, to the point where Galactica comes back. These scenes just didn't work in the whole, and I don't think they were willing to cut them.

So my final analysis is that they need a more discriminating editor. Whoever's doing it now is, like J. K. Rowling's editor, not doing a very good job of telling the creator that no, this isn't working.

I did understand the artistic choice to shoot everything desaturated and blue-toned, but I have to say that the visual monotony most of the time made me less prone to pay attention to what was happening on the screen. And I suspect that even TPTB were irritated by how many of the act breaks were spoiled in the commercials leading up to the premiere.

This is just one of those weird times when there was a lot of stuff I liked, but the product as a whole was so badly presented that I'm still left with a sour taste in my mouth. Here's hoping they tighten things up soon.

[Descent]

It was a fantastic start to the season. Tense, gritty and real. Personally, I feel any shots made againist it are nitpicks. Speaking of which, while I loved almost all of the episode there were some things that bugged me.

-Anders sure got over that "fatal" pneumonia without meds rather easily, a mention of it would've been nice

-Kara's baby looks a lot older than just 1 year old

Other than that, I was really impressed with this episode. Sure, I still don't like these constant time gaps but they work in the long run.

***1/2 rating from me on GW's scale

[Major Fischer]

Anyone who thinks that the prisoners are going to be saved by the New Caprica Police is being naive. Jammer maybe one person, but he wasn't willing to save more than one, and to them these are the people who have been sending other humans to blow themselves up among them. The point of suicide bombing is not to kill cylons. It's to kill NCP. It's to make it so hard to work with the cylons that no one volunteer for the duty.

Human or no, those are the same people who are walking around with masks on and pulling mothers out of their babies homes and teachers out of school rooms in front of children. Ron Moore and company love to pull out historical examples and there is simply no example of subserviant police ever turning on their masters like that.

It didn't happen with the Jewish police in the ghettos. It didn't happen with the civil police anywhere in Europe. French police, Polish police, Hungarian police... you name it during the second world war and the police brough their own countrymen to the slaughter. The only acception was Denmark and that was so remarkable that today it's remembered as the Miracle of Denmark... and in that case there was no situation like this.

The "let the prisoners out ot stretch their legs" buisness is precisely what the SS did to murder the recaptured British POWs from the story made famous in the Great Escape... and the American POWs during the battle of the bulge at Malmady. And hundreds of other cases on the eastern front.

Roslin and Zarek's survival will depend on their own wits.... not the sympathies of the New Caprica Police.

ETA: The best example of the massacre and how they could possibly survive is in the movie Saints and Soldiers which follows four GIs who esacape the Malmady massacre.

[Descent]

No. Wanna know why? Because if I hate something, I hate it no matter what and all the excuses and elaborate explanations and condescending little "get over it" comments in the world aren't going to change that. If I don't like something, I don't like it and the last time I checked, there was nothing wrong with that. I happened to like a number of things in the ep, but the political grandstanding (as I saw it) was not one of those things.

That is certainly your right but know that you have those condescending comments coming when you aren't willing to look at the other side of things.

[Skydiver]

you guys see taliban and, i guess i do in a way, but i also see undeniable references to the nazi's

It was a very good episode and i think they definitely made the right decisionto fast forward a year. the whole setitng up camp bit would been very boring

i'm pretty sure roslyn survives, not sure about zarek though