The Oath (413)

[apollo123]

I'm glad Dualla isn't alive to see what has become of the crew of the Galactica, she'd suffered enough with the loss of the dream of Earth. If only Gaeta had had the courage to put a bullet in his own brain...

I'm sorry, I liked Dualla and her death was very sad, but I wouldn't call what she did courageous. It was hopelessness that made her put a bullet in her brain, not courage.

Gaeta is being foolish, arrogant and misguided, but I wouldn't call him a coward. He truly believes that Adama is wrong, that the Cylons are evil and that staging a mutiny is the only way to save the human race. If he had put a bullet through his head knowing that he could've something about it, that would've been the coward's way out. However wrong and stupid you think he is, you gotta give the guy credit for standing up for what he believes in and facing possible death, disgrace and zero redemption.

[BobBot]

[QUOTE=notafanboy;9683755]

As far as Gaeta goes, I get the control thing over the coms, but why would anyone listen to him? He doesn't seem to have any other power. Just a thought.[/COLOR]

He relays orders, people listen to the CIC and don't question the orders that are issued. It's a position of trust, but it's also a weak link.

I'm sorry, I liked Dualla and her death was very sad, but I wouldn't call what she did courageous. It was hopelessness that made her put a bullet in her brain, not courage.

Gaeta is being foolish, arrogant and misguided, but I wouldn't call him a coward. He truly believes that Adama is wrong, that the Cylons are evil and that staging a mutiny is the only way to save the human race. If he had put a bullet through his head knowing that he could've something about it, that would've been the coward's way out. However wrong and stupid you think he is, you gotta give the guy credit for standing up for what he believes in and facing possible death, disgrace and zero redemption.

I don't think Dualla was courageous, but Gaeta would have been. Certainly more courageous than his actual actions were. Their motivations were different. I would respect Gaeta making a stand if it was just his own neck on the line, but he's started a civil war that is costing many lives. He had other options, but he chose to go to Zarek, he chose to lead others to their deaths. They could have mutineed by downing tools and refusing to work. They could have used political means. They could have split the fleet. Baltar has shown deep remorse for his actions, but he never deliberately killed a human - Gaeta on the other hand, he no redeeming qualities.

[entil2001]

The events of this episode were a long time coming. Tensions between the military and civilian government have been present since the very beginning, and it was only the slow and steady relationship between Adama and Roslin that brought about any sense of stability and cooperation. But the loss of hope and the death of dreams has been too much to bear.

After so much time, it's hard not to feel like we should be on Adama's side in the conflict. We feel as though Adama and Roslin are the victims of unwarranted betrayal at the worst possible moment. We don't want to see them fall, and we certainly don't want it to be during a revolt. Yet it's hard not to recognize that Gaeta and Zarek have a point. Adama has changed considerably over the course of the series, and he is not the same man that inspired steadfast confidence and loyalty.

It also doesn't help that Roslin has been hiding ever since the discovery of radioactive Earth. It feeds into the growing consensus that Adam and Roslin were appeasing the masses with false hope. Despite the lingering resentments of the Pegasus crew and those left behind on New Caprica, right down to those still wanting Baltar's head on a pike, the fleet was willing to hold it together. Earth broke that fragile peace. Adama's decision to keep Tigh as his XO and forge an alliance with the Cylons is just the most convenient trigger.

Even so, the arguments of the revolution are flawed and contradictory. It's not about the rights of the civilian fleet. If it was, the revolution would have been a lot less violent. It's about anger, hatred, and bitterness, fueled by ignorance. It's about payback for perceived wrongs. Otherwise, the man who wanted to rape Athena wouldn't be looking for another shot. People wouldn't be trying to shoot Lee for defending Baltar during the trial. Even Gaeta's motivations are caught between reasoned opposition and personal vendetta.

More to the point, too many people are claming (and believing) that Adama and Roslin knew the truth about Earth. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize why that makes no sense. If they knew that Earth wasn't a sanctuary, and they were using Earth as a carrot to dangle in front of the Colonials to maintain their control, why would they ever let the fleet get close to Earth?

And even those who know better seem to be reacting to Tigh, Anders, and Tyrol as though they were behind the attack on the Colonies. How ironic is it that the revolution is led by someone who undermined the resistance on New Caprica by giving names to the enemy (as seen in the "Face of the Enemy" webisodes), while he rails against the continued trust in Cylons who were the leaders of the resistance?

Even Lee seems to miss that crucial point. While there's no denying that the Cylons nearly wiped out humanity, and that it was only a few short years earlier, it's also clear that the Final Five are not the same as the more familiar enemy. Even the rebel Cylons aren't quite sure how they fit into the equation. So why does everyone assume that the Final Five betrayed humanity? Lee, the one who took the first step towards the alliance with D'Anna, is apparently just as susceptible to this lack of reason as most.

Roslin and Adama are looking at the big picture, and perhaps there is some measure of arrogance in their sureness of purpose as well. They still believe they know what's best for everyone. It just so happens that they may be right, even if they don't truly understand why. The mystery surrounding Starbuck and the purpose of the Final Five will no doubt vindicate Adama and Roslin's confidence that an alliance with the rebel Cylons is the best course for Humanity. It may be too late for some, but the mystery wouldn't exist at this stage of the game if it wasn't significant to the resolution of the series.

All that said, this conflict was inevitable, and with so much left unsaid over the years, it was always going to be bloody and brutal. No matter how justified the hate and the anger, however, this is the turning point. As Adama said at the beginning of the series, Humanity needs to prove that it is worthy of survival. The writers, even in the midst of chaos, leave the matter open to debate. Does survival mean resistance to the Cylons at any cost, or does it mean transcending hatred and fear and forging a new path?

The overwhelming power of this episode is how well these concepts shine through, even as the focus remains on the mutiny and the bloodshed. Not a moment of this episode is wasted, and several characters shine. Gaeta gets his moment as the mastermind of the coup in CIC, Adama and Tigh have never been so hardcore, Roslin returns to form with her appeal to the fleet, and even Baltar displays a rare sense of decency.

More than just the best episode of the season, it ranks among the best of the series. And with seven episodes left, the ride is far from over.

John Keegan
Reprinted with permission
Original source: c. Critical Myth, 2009
All rights reserved
Link: http://www.criticalmyth.com

[EvenstarSRV]

At the very least she could've stayed behind the heavy metal toolboxes instead of making her out to be an untouchable character that can do anything.

I'm inclined to think that after essentially coming back from the dead, Starbuck probably does think she's a bit untouchable. That combined with her normal cocky attitude, and I think she would much rather face down her enemy head on instead of hiding behind cover. It's probably not the most tactically sound thing to do, but it's definitely a Starbuck-type thing for her to do, IMO.

I agree... Gaeta seems like a nice guy (normally), but he doesn't strike me as someone with a whole lot of charisma. How he's the ringleader and can get others to follow him is a little beyond me, other than the fact that he might be the only guy who can do key stuff in CIC. That would make him a key figure in a mutiny, but not necessarily the military leader of it.

Maybe that issue will come back to haunt him. Once control has been established, a higher ranking mutineer (if there is one), may try to displace him.

I think so too. Gaeta was needed to engineer the mutiny by putting the pieces in place and manipulating Adama and Tigh. But now that the coup has occurred, Gaeta's not really needed anymore and could be pushed out by someone more ruthless.

Tigh- "You could have gone over with her, Bill."

Adama- "I couldn't have lived with it."

Someone else mentioned earlier in the thread (I think) that Adama wouldn't, and couldn't, live with himself if he left his ship in the hands of mutineers. This simple exchange confirms that in my mind. As for why not take and kill whoever came through the door, he probably still considers them his men, despite Starbuck's entreaty not to.

Plus I suspect that Adama is trying to make a point, that he won't give up his ship, and perhaps those in the mutiny who are on the fence so to speak, might realize that and come to their senses.

I agree that Adama wouldn't have abandoned his ship, but I was wondering why he didn't follow Lee and Starbuck out the side hatch from that hanger. He wanted to stay to make sure the Raptor took off, but once it did it seemed like he had time to escape with Lee and the others. But that's a minor quibble, because seeing his and Tigh's stand was well worth it.

[Replicator Todd]

I think so too. Gaeta was needed to engineer the mutiny by putting the pieces in place and manipulating Adama and Tigh. But now that the coup has occurred, Gaeta's not really needed anymore and could be pushed out by someone more ruthless.

I'm imaging Zarek will have something to do Gaeta's downfall, he sure is in trouble now!

[GateTrek2004]

I think so too. Gaeta was needed to engineer the mutiny by putting the pieces in place and manipulating Adama and Tigh. But now that the coup has occurred, Gaeta's not really needed anymore and could be pushed out by someone more ruthless.

It wouldn't surprise me if Zarek decided to kill him, but i've read around that

Spoiler:

Gaeta survives to at least 4.18, don;t know who said that or if its true or not

[apollo123]

[QUOTE=BobBot;9684954]

I don't think Dualla was courageous, but Gaeta would have been. Certainly more courageous than his actual actions were. Their motivations were different. I would respect Gaeta making a stand if it was just his own neck on the line, but he's started a civil war that is costing many lives. He had other options, but he chose to go to Zarek, he chose to lead others to their deaths. They could have mutineed by downing tools and refusing to work. They could have used political means. They could have split the fleet. Baltar has shown deep remorse for his actions, but he never deliberately killed a human - Gaeta on the other hand, he no redeeming qualities.

Again, not more courageous, just more preferable. Anyways, yes what he's doing is stupid, I agree.

[Corona]

Is there anyone who didn't want to kill that guy for gloating how they were going to rape Athena? I mean, really! That was a powerful scene, especially with Helo beat down.

[Mongoletsi]

Is there anyone who didn't want to kill that guy for gloating how they were going to rape Athena? I mean, really! That was a powerful scene, especially with Helo beat down.

She was raped in Razor, but thankfully the scenes were cut.

[g.o.d]

I'm imaging Zarek will have something to do Gaeta's downfall, he sure is in trouble now!

two words: Romo Lampkin

[Mongoletsi]

I reckon Romo actually has more integrity than we may give him credit for, and will come out on whichever side Lee Adama is on.

[GateTrek2004]

She was raped in Razor, but thankfully the scenes were cut.

even with the unrated edition they came out with, she almost got raped, but did not!

[Skydiver]

isn't it notable that the humans behave less humanely than the machines they built?

[Cathara]

Very powerful episode - as so many others have commented. Just a few musings…

Does anyone recall if way back when Adama removed Roslin from office, after she sent Kara back to Caprica for the arrow, that whole situation, was that a bloodless coup?

The reason I ask is this – obviously there a came a point in the series that all was forgiven and the characters moved on together.

Over and over again, all has been forgiven. Something Apollo highlighted so well in his defense of Baltar. The Pegasus crew, the possible collaborators from New Caprica, and now recently, even the rebel Cylons themselves.

I think perhaps the reason for Adama’s statement of no forgiveness for this time, stems from the fact that these people are flat out betraying their own. (I know they don’t see it that way, but!) These rebels are killing anyone – military or civilian – that gets in their way in this grab for power.

The Pegasus crew could be said to be “following orders” – the whole New Caprica situation was it’s own complete mess of shades of gray – and the rebel Cylons – they were an enemy and never pretended to be anything but. They have – for the moment – thrown their lot in with the Colonials – but it wasn’t as if the original attack on the colonies betrayed a trust. It was an act of war. Abhorrent, yes. Ultimately however, wars end, one way or another, and often with truces being drawn. Uneasy truces, perhaps, but things move on.

These rebels fought and bled and suffered alongside their crewmates for all the long years since the original attacks. And now this? Whatever the reasoning – it is a betrayal that must cut very, very deep to Adama and to the other characters not part of the coup. Apollo’s shocked “I flew with some of them!” tells part of that feeling. Adama’s rage in the CIC speaks to it as well.

If these rebels have openly betrayed their own once – what is to stop them from doing so again – thus the no forgiveness, no clemency tactic being justified in Adama’s mind.

All of this is just me reasoning things out in my own way – not to say I’m right about any of it. J

As to the other elements of the episode:

Loved seeing Starbuck kick a$# again – she has a definite flair for it!

Loved seeing more of what I call the “real” Baltar returning! I am really interested to see how his knowledge of Gaeta’s duplicity on New Caprica plays out.

Seelix is a bitter witch. “I just can’t let it go…” Whatever. People like her are the reason restraining orders were invented.
The cylons in the brig – the bruises/cuts on Six’s face and the threat’s of the Pegasus crewman were very disturbing. I can’t think of many things worse than raping/beating a pregnant woman – or a mother while her young child is watching. Ugh. It is very possible that either Anders or Helo could die trying to prevent that from happening – but you never know with how things turn on a dime in this show…

Zarek – oh he is evil. Totally, totally out for number 1 all the way. And in love with his own self-image. Great calls by other posters on Zarek wanting someone else to do his dirty work. Although his murder of the deck chief shows he can do his own killing if he feels the situation calls for it.

I hope both Zarek and Gaeta get their just desserts – and soon. But before they “go” I would like to see Gaeta’s secrets revealed and Zarek’s hero image in the fleet demolished – and for him to know it too. As Adama so correctly pointed out on the last episode, Zarek wouldn’t mind dying if he could go as a martyr to his cause.

Roslin – If anything is guaranteed to shake Roslin completely out of her “funk” and get her back in action kickin’ and a-screamin’ – it is to threaten the man she loves. The question is, do events push her over the edge? Or does she stay in control?

The cylons on the basestar – my vote is that Tory prompts nastiness and yet another turn of allegiance – I don’t trust her! She is just trouble! I could be way off – but that is my guess…

As always, I’m not sure where next week’s episode will take us – but boy am I excited to go along for the ride!!!

[ha'tak_]

I must say I´m not liking the direction that the new series is taking, the episode self was good but having a mutiny don´t like that I would like to see in the next episodes is some attack on th cylons