Faith (406)

[DigiFluid]

Does that mean that the 13th tribe was all Cylon (as in robotic) and created the 5 to infiltrate the 12 tribes and it just so happens that the humans had created their robotic version of Cylon's who in turn created 7 skin jobs?

I just don't see how the final 5 can be from Earth and be part of the 12 models of skinjob Cylon's.

I don't think we've got enough info on this to speculate with yet... As best I can tell, the only pieces of Cylon evolutionary history we know are:

- the Five are from the 13th tribe ('Faith')
- the Colonies created the Cylon machines, who in turn rebelled and then left (miniseries)
- the Cylons were experimenting with genetics and other fleshiness ('Razor') for evolutionary paths
- 40 years later the Cylons showed up, with the machine models deferring to flawless human models (miniseries)

Could it be that the Five were sent from Earth to seek out the rest of the human race? Perhaps they in turn created 7 more models so as to have one of each model assigned to the twelve colonies, and the 'merging' with the machine models was just an accident of history? The seven don't know about the Five, and are programmed not to think about them, so it stands to reason that if this speculation were fact, they wouldn't be aware of the mission of the original five.



And yes, I did just discourage speculation and then go on to do so, all within the same post. Sorry

[Pharaoh Atem]

the cylons themselves have just as much riding on finding earth as the fleet does.

and i think that why they said that the 2 great races would join as one" or something like that

[Trek_Girl42]

The 13th might have been both human and cylon. The final 5 are likely part of a previous cycle of Cylon. "All of this has happened before and will happen again".
Remember back in season one when boomer said that the Cylons know more about the human's religion than they do? I think the Cylons have some limited knowledge about the existence of the 5 from the previous ages. This might explain why the Cylons decided to find Earth themselves and make it their new home.

Good hypothesis. That would be pretty sweet if the human/cylon alliance arrived at earth and found humans and Cylons alike living in relative peace. Of course there'd be a twist.....

*shivvers* But I both love and hate that we're they're getting closer.

[Arative]

The 13th might have been both human and cylon. The final 5 are likely part of a previous cycle of Cylon. "All of this has happened before and will happen again".
Remember back in season one when boomer said that the Cylons know more about the human's religion than they do? I think the Cylons have some limited knowledge about the existence of the 5 from the previous ages. This might explain why the Cylons decided to find Earth themselves and make it their new home.

I suppose that is possible but every thing we know of Colonial history is that they left Kobol for the 12 colonies and earlier a 13th tribe left Kobol for Earth.

So did the cycle take place just on Earth and the 5 cylons then travel to the colonies on a mission, start a rebellion among the robotic cylons and create the skinjobs to start another cycle?

[daniel9]

I don't think we've got enough info on this to speculate with yet... As best I can tell, the only pieces of Cylon evolutionary history we know are:

- the Five are from the 13th tribe ('Faith')
- the Colonies created the Cylon machines, who in turn rebelled and then left (miniseries)
- the Cylons were experimenting with genetics and other fleshiness ('Razor') for evolutionary paths
- 40 years later the Cylons showed up, with the machine models deferring to flawless human models (miniseries)

lol you forgot

all this has happened before, and it will happen, and again, and again, and again...

[Pharaoh Atem]

wasn't to big on what they gave Nana Visitor for a role

[Trek_Girl42]

Could it be that the Five were sent from Earth to seek out the rest of the human race? Perhaps they in turn created 7 more models so as to have one of each model assigned to the twelve colonies, and the 'merging' with the machine models was just an accident of history? The seven don't know about the Five, and are programmed not to think about them, so it stands to reason that if this speculation were fact, they wouldn't be aware of the mission of the original five.

But if they're "assigned" to each of the twelve colonies why wouldn't the seven be allowed to think of the five? If you start assigning each cylon a colony Caprica, for example, might wonder who the Aerelon (sp?) cylon is if it's one of the "he who shall not be named" cylons.

Which is the remaining hang-up that I have of cylons having some sort of relation with each colony. Why wouldn't it all be an equal playing field type deal where everyone knows who everyone is?

[Arative]

I don't think we've got enough info on this to speculate with yet... As best I can tell, the only pieces of Cylon evolutionary history we know are:

- the Five are from the 13th tribe ('Faith')
- the Colonies created the Cylon machines, who in turn rebelled and then left (miniseries)
- the Cylons were experimenting with genetics and other fleshiness ('Razor') for evolutionary paths
- 40 years later the Cylons showed up, with the machine models deferring to flawless human models (miniseries)

Could it be that the Five were sent from Earth to seek out the rest of the human race? Perhaps they in turn created 7 more models so as to have one of each model assigned to the twelve colonies, and the 'merging' with the machine models was just an accident of history? The seven don't know about the Five, and are programmed not to think about them, so it stands to reason that if this speculation were fact, they wouldn't be aware of the mission of the original five.



And yes, I did just discourage speculation and then go on to do so, all within the same post. Sorry

See now you got me speculating. If the 5 came from Earth, where a cylon/human cycle occured, they arrive at the colonies and see the toasters had rebelled, create the other 7 models, who then rebel themselves and take over and the 5 still have some control program the 7 not to think about them and forget them and the 5 integrate into human society to await the coming cylon war?

[DigiFluid]

lol you forgot

all this has happened before, and it will happen, and again, and again, and again...

I didn't forget, I couldn't figure out how to fit it in and was hoping no-one would notice the omission That said though, there's something to be said for cyclical conceptions of existence. "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again" doesn't necessarily need to be taken literally, it could be a philosophical statement.

But if they're "assigned" to each of the twelve colonies why wouldn't the seven be allowed to think of the five? If you start assigning each cylon a colony Caprica, for example, might wonder who the Aerelon (sp?) cylon is if it's one of the "who who shall not be named" cylons.

Which is the remaining hang-up that I have of cylons having some sort of relation with each colony. Why wouldn't it all be an equal playing field type deal where everyone knows who everyone is?

Well, Tory seems to be under the impression that they in particular are literally perfect creations. Possibly, if they somehow made the seven themselves, they regarded their creations as less perfect and decided to maintain control somehow?

As far as "the one who shall not be named" business, I think personally that they're referring specifically to the divine there. Each of the gods has a name (Zeus, Artemis, etc), whereas God itself is nameless. We've previously heard from the colonials' scriptures that the Temple of Five is for the priests of "the one who shall not be named," which to me says that this one is not one of the unknown models.

God(s) I love this show.

[Lady Snow]

What's "RTF"?

Rag-Tag Fleet.

I'm excited for the second showing, which starts in ten minutes or so. I'll have more reactions later, maybe even tomorrow.

[marielabbott]

I found last week's episode underwhelming--this week's was overwhelming. So much happened I can hardly take it all in.

The opening minutes were intense, and I hope poor Felix survives, and survives intact. He looked like death in a few of the later shots.

There was just so much going on...the Final Five are from Earth? Starbuck--what do those cyrptic words of the hybrid mean to her? What was Athena thinking when she turned away from her dying model-sister? Why are they killing someone in every ep this season?

I loved Nana Visitor as the dying cancer patient. A brief friendship through the agony of shared suffering. I'm still unsure of Baltar as a religious figure; I'll have to see where this goes.

Anders has really become a main focus for me this season, and he had an incredible range of emotions this ep. Shooting Felix in loyalty to Kara, almost touching the basestar's computer interface, nearly killing a Cylon in retribution, giving comfort to a dying one, learning he was supposedly from the lost colony and should know the way there. What a day.

A nice quiet scene to end an action packed episode. Adama and Roslin pledge to find Earth, together.

[Xicer]

Well an interesting episode indeed!

Loved the way the Demetrius arc went and we got a ton of revelations. The Roslin side-story was good too and I liked Nana Visitor's guest appearance, but I felt the story in general dragged on a bit.

Well now, the final five are from Earth. I'm not really sure what to make of this but everyone else's speculations sound interesting.

I'm loving Anders this season. He seems to keep trying to act like any normal human being, calmly trying not to draw attention to himself but at the same time it seems hes the one thats being most affected. Tigh and Tyrol haven't really showed much change, and Tory has gone a bit insane. But for Anders, he stalled when he was chasing a Cylon raider during the season's first episode, and was scanned and his eyes actually turned red. Then just during this episode, anyone else notice how much Anders stalled when he was trying to shoot the Six model in the head? He just couldn't do it, Natalie had to do it for him. And then of course the Cylon console in the hybrid room was drawing him in. Anders definitely seems like the one who has the strongest connection to the other Cylons.

[DigiFluid]

See now you got me speculating. If the 5 came from Earth, where a cylon/human cycle occured, they arrive at the colonies and see the toasters had rebelled, create the other 7 models, who then rebel themselves and take over and the 5 still have some control program the 7 not to think about them and forget them and the 5 integrate into human society to await the coming cylon war?

Holy run-on-sentence Batman

So the general idea of the quoted text is that the phrasing simply means that a similar sequence of events happens over and over? I find that hard to come to terms with, since the Cylons seem to know exactly who Kara is and what she's all about. I have a really hard time believing that events would play out so similarly that they'd be able to peg a role down to a single person quite so easily.

[daniel9]

I didn't forget, I couldn't figure out how to fit it in and was hoping no-one would notice the omission That said though, there's something to be said for cyclical conceptions of existence. "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again" doesn't necessarily need to be taken literally, it could be a philosophical statement.

lol its starting to seem very literal as time goes on. ig uess we have to wait til the end of the series to see how it all plays out

[Trek_Girl42]

I didn't forget, I couldn't figure out how to fit it in and was hoping no-one would notice the omission That said though, there's something to be said for cyclical conceptions of existence. "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again" doesn't necessarily need to be taken literally, it could be a philosophical statement.




Well, Tory seems to be under the impression that they in particular are literally perfect creations. Possibly, if they somehow made the seven themselves, they regarded their creations as less perfect and decided to maintain control somehow?

I'll buy it. Perhaps the final five get a little too big for their britches, re-program the seven for some purpose.....like deleting whatever relevant "files" they had regarding the five but didn't fully delete those "files" from the recycle bin. Hence why they retain knowledge of the existence of the final five, but can't access who they are. Probably a very bad analogy, technically speaking, but..... Then perhaps the final final cylon decided it was superior to the other four, and wiped their minds and gave them special programming? Perhaps the final final cylon believed that he/she was divine. Bah.....talking myself round in circles. Love it.

As far as "the one who shall not be named" business, I think personally that they're referring specifically to the divine there. Each of the gods has a name (Zeus, Artemis, etc), whereas God itself is nameless. We've previously heard from the colonials' scriptures that the Temple of Five is for the priests of "the one who shall not be named," which to me says that this one is not one of the unknown models.

God(s) I love this show.

Heh, typo on what was intended as a little Harry Potter reference.....I'm typing too fast. I'm now very confused as to where you're going with that.

Rag-Tag Fleet.

I'm excited for the second showing, which starts in ten minutes or so. I'll have more reactions later, maybe even tomorrow.

*headdesk* Thanks.