The Covid19 thread

[Annoyed]

the epidemic would also be very useful as an excuse for the current government to postpone next election (possibly sine die)

Apparently many hoops need to be jumped through before that can happen...

FH is right. That isn't going to happen.

NY State (controlled by Democrats) tried to cancel NY's Democratic primary late last month.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/27/84654...ers-supporters

New York Democrats will not be casting primary votes for a presidential candidate this year.

State election officials effectively canceled the presidential primary by removing every Democrat except the presumptive nominee, former Vice President Joe Biden, from the primary ballot.

A Federal court slapped them down and told them to hold the primary as scheduled.

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/ce...ers-supporters

If the courts won't allow the Democrats to cancel their own primaries as a result of the virus, I doubt they're going to allow federal elections to be jiggered with.

[Gatefan1976]

FH is right. That isn't going to happen.

NY State (controlled by Democrats) tried to cancel NY's Democratic primary late last month.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/27/84654...ers-supporters



A Federal court slapped them down and told them to hold the primary as scheduled.

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/ce...ers-supporters

If the courts won't allow the Democrats to cancel their own primaries as a result of the virus, I doubt they're going to allow federal elections to be jiggered with.

So, the Ohio one, (run by republicans) where the governer ignored the courts is any better?

[Annoyed]

So, the Ohio one, (run by republicans) where the governer ignored the courts is any better?

As I recall, they wanted to delay it, which the courts blocked. They held by mail instead. And no, I don't agree with it.

I don't think there should be any change in S.O.P. as far as voting goes. If going to the grocery store or a hardware store, or some other essential business is ok, so should going to the polling place.

[Skydiver]

The issue with voting in person often comes down to the number of polling places.
And across this country there has been more and more of a push - especially in some selected parts of the country/cities - to close down polling places, thus creating long lines. Which means voting isn’t a 10 minute in and out experience, for many it’s a 5-6+ HOUR experience.

For those that wish to see it this way, this closing down of polling places creates a burden for some in that they don’t have time to stand in line that long, and right now with this time of physical distancing it is honestly life threatening for people to need to stand in line and be near others for hours on end.

For many this is interpreted as the mind set of ‘yeah, we gotta let you vote but we’re gonna make you work for it’.

[Annoyed]

The issue with voting in person often comes down to the number of polling places.
And across this country there has been more and more of a push - especially in some selected parts of the country/cities - to close down polling places, thus creating long lines. Which means voting isn’t a 10 minute in and out experience, for many it’s a 5-6+ HOUR experience.

For those that wish to see it this way, this closing down of polling places creates a burden for some in that they don’t have time to stand in line that long, and right now with this time of physical distancing it is honestly life threatening for people to need to stand in line and be near others for hours on end.

For many this is interpreted as the mind set of ‘yeah, we gotta let you vote but we’re gonna make you work for it’.

Maybe I'm missing something.. but that doesn't seem to hold water. Are there 5-6 hour waits other years? Never mind the "push", just run the elections as usual. Standard procedure right down the line.

[Gatefan1976]

Maybe I'm missing something.. but that doesn't seem to hold water. Are there 5-6 hour waits other years? Never mind the "push", just run the elections as usual. Standard procedure right down the line.

What you are missing is that in other nations with polling stations, there is no effort to -close- polling stations. In the immediate 3 KM area around me we have around 6-7 polling stations to service some 2000 people in that area. In 22 years of voting, I have NEVER waited more than 10-20 minutes. In fact most times it's straight in and out.

Your "standard procedure" is inherently flawed because it allows the states to dictate where polling stations are.
EVERY school here is a polling station, let alone other sites and there is no attempt EVER to restrict that.

[Annoyed]

What you are missing is that in other nations with polling stations, there is no effort to -close- polling stations. In the immediate 3 KM area around me we have around 6-7 polling stations to service some 2000 people in that area. In 22 years of voting, I have NEVER waited more than 10-20 minutes. In fact most times it's straight in and out.

Your "standard procedure" is inherently flawed because it allows the states to dictate where polling stations are.
EVERY school here is a polling station, let alone other sites and there is no attempt EVER to restrict that.

That argument has no bearing whatsoever when it comes to changing voting procedures because of CV. You have a valid point about some jurisdictions placing roadblocks in the path of legal voting, closing DMV (registration) sites in some areas, I've conceded that point in the past.

The existing system works well for me. I've never had to wait more than a few minutes either, and those delays were almost always the result of stupid behavior on the part of some idiot in line ahead of me. Never have they been a result of sheer overload. And I've been voting a lot longer than you have. I recall voting for President Peanut Farmer 'cause Ford pardoned Nixon, way back in '76.

Oh, and back in the days before certain aspects of society trained us to believe that all males are evil, child-raping preverts and predators, most schools here served as polling places too. Maybe that is the explanation for some of the closings?

But at the end of the day, none of this justifies changing the voting process due to CV.

[VampyreWraith]

Most of the schools here are polling places too. My current polling place is a catholic school, before they did some redistricting it was a public school a bit closer to me. They close schools on election day in NYC so you don't have a bunch of unknown adults mixing with school children.

I also have never had to wait long to vote, but I guess that could depend on the area and amount of voting sites in the area.

[Skydiver]

Some of the wait does depend on where you are in the city. Are you in a more economically challenged area? If so you may wait longer. If you are in a more affluent or middle class area you may not wait longer because you may have more polling areas.

In many areas polling places are not distributed by population (1 place per 2000 residents for example or whatever numbers they use), but one polling place for whatever number.

As I’ve heard, Oregon is all mail ballots. And has a very high participation rate. If you drill through their page to their stats, they have 70-80+% participation.

Now you can register to vote in person if you want.
But honestly, one of our primaries was mail ballot only. They sent all registered voters of the appropriate party a ballot to choose our candidate for the upcoming election. Took me longer to walk it to the mail drop box than it took me to do it. If they’d have had it in person I would not have gone.
https://sos.oregon.gov/elections/Pag...tatistics.aspx

[Gatefan1976]

That argument has no bearing whatsoever when it comes to changing voting procedures because of CV.

No it doesn't, but it answers your "missing the point" question to Skydiver. Try to keep on point.

You have a valid point about some jurisdictions placing roadblocks in the path of legal voting, closing DMV (registration) sites in some areas, I've conceded that point in the past.

Conceed?
Perhaps.
Care enough to do anything about it?
Nope.

The existing system works well for me. I've never had to wait more than a few minutes either, and those delays were almost always the result of stupid behavior on the part of some idiot in line ahead of me. Never have they been a result of sheer overload.

Maybe that's because of where you live?
Sky also noted that there are "some area's" that have tried, and succeeded in using the delaying tactics to avoid voting by legally registered people.
You don't live in such a state, and IIRC, she does.

And I've been voting a lot longer than you have. I recall voting for President Peanut Farmer 'cause Ford pardoned Nixon, way back in '76.

Irrelevant.

Oh, and back in the days before certain aspects of society trained us to believe that all males are evil, child-raping preverts and predators, most schools here served as polling places too. Maybe that is the explanation for some of the closings?

What an utter load of crap. I've seen stables with less horse crap than that statement.

But at the end of the day, none of this justifies changing the voting process due to CV.

No, what changes it is the threat of violating the social distancing rules which exist to protect everyone right now. Vote by mail is perfectly viable, and LEGAL, and don't give me any BS about it being "fake" or "open to hacking" More than half your nation couldn't be even bothered voting, what makes you think a person would risk not one but two federal charges just to vote?

Addendum
I find it very "cute" that your new term for Covid-19 is "CV", I wonder exactly what else that shorthand could be used for...………..

[Womble]

I've been trying to track the impact of coronavirus on the economy and how things are changing, in part to know which way to go if my current job as a travel agent will go under. Here's some conclusions I've arrived to.

The virus hit us all right into the sharing economy. We have become accustomed to the thought that, with some things at least, it's better to rent than to own. But right now bike and e-scooter RENTALS are dead in the water, and will probably not recover. Tel Aviv is closing its once-popular Tel Ofan bicycle rental program. Public transport use is down, big time. At the same time, e-bike and e-scooter SALES are through the roof, because people want a way to move around that is not shared with other people. My own Xiaomi scooter, God bless it, has been an absolute life safer, allowing me to do quick, low-hassle early-morning grocery store runs (before they are crowded by people) and - now that I'm back in the office - a sterile way to commute to work.

Plastic and single-use stuff is back with a vengeance. People won't buy anything in grocery stores that isn't packaged in plastic. Latex/nitrile gloves, surgical masks, etc.

Online is not always better. I am hoping that it will change in the near future, but right now retailers are proving unable to deliver - literally - on website orders. Last Saturday, I ordered a hair trimmer from a normally-reliable shop called KSP. Yesterday - almost a week later - I had to cancel my order because they haven't even begun processing it. Delivery in 8 business days was simply not going to happen. This morning I rode into the city, got myself a hair trimmer and saved 22 shekels on delivery fee. (Also saved some money since I had a 100 shekel gift card to the shop where I bought it).

That said, the internet really is essential and whoever didn't catch up to the online way of doing things before the crisis, has a very hard time right now. Checking your bank account, shopping for essentials doing full lockdown, scheduling doctor consultation, registering for unemployment - if you can't do it online, you can't do it at all. I think this should be reflected in the status of internet providers - they should be treated as public utility no different from water and electricity.

Cash is on its way out because it's the least hygienic way to pay. I see almost no one paying cash anymore except for especially small purchases. My landlady wants to receive our utility payments via an app. Shopkeepers cringe at cash but love the plastic. Plumbers and electricians want their payment through digital wallets. My own cash has been sitting untouched in my wallet for two months. And yes, I sanitize my card after I swipe it, with an alcohol cloth. It's easy. The obvious next stage is to avoid physical swiping, touchscreen interaction and NFC altogether and shift all retail payments to completely contactless digital wallets.

Basic hand-skills are in high demand. Anyone who has a sewing machine and knows how to use it, is making masks. "Handymen" offer their home repairs service through Facebook. Furloughed hi-tech employees make income fixing people's home computers. It'll be interesting to see what it does to the service economy once the epidemic is over.

[Gatefan1976]

I've been trying to track the impact of coronavirus on the economy and how things are changing, in part to know which way to go if my current job as a travel agent will go under. Here's some conclusions I've arrived to.

The virus hit us all right into the sharing economy. We have become accustomed to the thought that, with some things at least, it's better to rent than to own. But right now bike and e-scooter RENTALS are dead in the water, and will probably not recover. Tel Aviv is closing its once-popular Tel Ofan bicycle rental program. Public transport use is down, big time. At the same time, e-bike and e-scooter SALES are through the roof, because people want a way to move around that is not shared with other people. My own Xiaomi scooter, God bless it, has been an absolute life safer, allowing me to do quick, low-hassle early-morning grocery store runs (before they are crowded by people) and - now that I'm back in the office - a sterile way to commute to work.

I'm usually out the door by 6:55, as I walk to the local shops to get what we need. I'm basically there as soon as the doors open. One advantage of having local shops

Plastic and single-use stuff is back with a vengeance. People won't buy anything in grocery stores that isn't packaged in plastic. Latex/nitrile gloves, surgical masks, etc.

Our fresh produce section still sells like mad, and most of it is not "pre-packed". That could just be a country difference though.

Online is not always better. I am hoping that it will change in the near future, but right now retailers are proving unable to deliver - literally - on website orders. Last Saturday, I ordered a hair trimmer from a normally-reliable shop called KSP. Yesterday - almost a week later - I had to cancel my order because they haven't even begun processing it. Delivery in 8 business days was simply not going to happen. This morning I rode into the city, got myself a hair trimmer and saved 22 shekels on delivery fee. (Also saved some money since I had a 100 shekel gift card to the shop where I bought it).

I hope not everything goes to online. Look at the social damage that has been done by people being cooped up at home and not being able to just "go out", even if just to the local shopping mall. It creates a further sense of social isolation, which pushes us, a species that thrives on social interaction apart.
Haven't we had enough of that by now?

That said, the internet really is essential and whoever didn't catch up to the online way of doing things before the crisis, has a very hard time right now. Checking your bank account, shopping for essentials doing full lockdown, scheduling doctor consultation, registering for unemployment - if you can't do it online, you can't do it at all.

The net certainly has it's uses, no argument.

I think this should be reflected in the status of internet providers - they should be treated as public utility no different from water and electricity.

Agreed.

Cash is on its way out because it's the least hygienic way to pay. I see almost no one paying cash anymore except for especially small purchases. My landlady wants to receive our utility payments via an app. Shopkeepers cringe at cash but love the plastic. Plumbers and electricians want their payment through digital wallets. My own cash has been sitting untouched in my wallet for two months. And yes, I sanitize my card after I swipe it, with an alcohol cloth. It's easy. The obvious next stage is to avoid physical swiping, touchscreen interaction and NFC altogether and shift all retail payments to completely contactless digital wallets.

My issue with this is not the concept of cashless, it's the fact it is still legal tender and denying it (which we have in some places here as well) is essentially illegal.
If they want to pass laws to remove cash, so be it, but as for right now, it's wrong.

Basic hand-skills are in high demand. Anyone who has a sewing machine and knows how to use it, is making masks. "Handymen" offer their home repairs service through Facebook. Furloughed hi-tech employees make income fixing people's home computers. It'll be interesting to see what it does to the service economy once the epidemic is over.

Probably expand it, have people taking on second jobs that they might even find more enjoyable or relaxing than their main job.

[SoulReaver]

only 3 days after quarantine was lifted:

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/...gain-in-italy/

gotta give it to Covid it sure dont waste time

lol

[SoulReaver]

meanwhile other countries like France have their own stupid policies

like reopening schools in May

http://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200424...ls-coronavirus

basically their government will bring together the ultimate viral bombs (little kids spread the disease better than any asymptomatic adult) while expecting them runts to respect social distancing guidelines. why not give 5 year olds civic education classes while they're at it

cause the french think returning to school just for 1 month till summer holidays is worth it
on the other hand the virus just needs a couple of days



this wont be a 2nd wave it'll be a tsunami

[Annoyed]

No it doesn't, but it answers your "missing the point" question to Skydiver. Try to keep on point.

Conceed?
Perhaps.
Care enough to do anything about it?
Nope.

It is not a problem in any jurisdiction I am involved with, so no matter what I say or do, it will have no effect.

Maybe that's because of where you live?
Sky also noted that there are "some area's" that have tried, and succeeded in using the delaying tactics to avoid voting by legally registered people.
You don't live in such a state, and IIRC, she does.

Then the solution to issues in her area would have to come from the govt. in her area; more polling places, more election inspectors, depends what the cause of the delays are. And bear in mind, some problems are not solvable by govt. For all I know, the holdup in her neck of the woods is people can't read the damned ballots or operate the machines. If you recall, we had a huge election flap in 2000 because a bunch of Florida voters were too stupid to operate a simple paper ballot that year.

What an utter load of crap. I've seen stables with less horse crap than that statement.

Oh, really? Start shoveling.

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/09...sites-schools/

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...fety-concerns/

From one end of the country to the other.

They've been actively moving polling out of the schools for the past 10-20 years around here.

No, what changes it is the threat of violating the social distancing rules which exist to protect everyone right now. Vote by mail is perfectly viable, and LEGAL, and don't give me any BS about it being "fake" or "open to hacking" More than half your nation couldn't be even bothered voting, what makes you think a person would risk not one but two federal charges just to vote?

I have no problem with the EXISTING process for voting by mail. It requires advance registration and application, which allows for the verification of voter eligibility and identification. What I object to are the various half-arsed hurry up schemes to loosen this process which would lessen the protections against fraud. What have I said? "Use the exact same processes we already have, no changes due to CV". Opening the process up to fraud and misuse would be 'worse than the disease" in my opinion.

Addendum
I find it very "cute" that your new term for Covid-19 is "CV", I wonder exactly what else that shorthand could be used for...………..

Let's see.. It was the two letter US Navy designation for aircraft carriers before the advent of nuclear powered carriers, which is CVN.

Google "CV 6".

Could be used for a number of other things. Ever hear of a CV joint?

Myself, I am abbreviating "CoronaVirus", but I do see what your point is. If you would rather think of it that way, feel free. But I hadn't even thought of that.