The Covid19 thread

[SoulReaver]

Public or private, they're all in the business of making money.

not all in the business of making money out of people's health probs

[Annoyed]

not all in the business of making money out of people's health probs

Altruism died a long time ago. Even if some people in the school want to create it out of the goodness of their hearts, the people who run the show, the moneymen (it's always the moneymen who run any organization) will not go along with it. Examine whoever it is you want close enough, and you'll find someone making money.

That's just the way the world works.

[SoulReaver]

Altruism died a long time ago. Even if some people in the school want to create it out of the goodness of their hearts,

those are universities 10 to1 they'll do it primarily out of curiosity

the people who run the show, the moneymen (it's always the moneymen who run any organization) will not go along with it. Examine whoever it is you want close enough, and you'll find someone making money.

That's just the way the world works.

then put the law to good use for once & do away with patents on drugs

[Annoyed]

those are universities 10 to1 they'll do it primarily out of curiosity


then put the law to good use for once & do away with patents on drugs

That would remove the incentive for developing new drugs and medicines.

[SoulReaver]

That would remove the incentive for developing new drugs and medicines.

figured you'd say that but it's a small price
money's not the only incentive
besides only the elites can afford the most expensive patented drugs so those are useless anyway


PS. slightly offtopic but you won the 2nd world war just fine without the Pharmaceutical Military-Indu$trial Complex didn't you? the US was building like a battleship a day or something & didn't need capitalism for that
then for some reason Eisenhower created the MIC and said it was "necessary" but he never said why it was necessary (because it wasn't)

[SoulReaver]

alrite so this is a topic about infectious diseases & fascism is one such disease so @7:02 am GMT (while it's still ongoing) I'm gonna make my own projection: power begets power, fascism will again prevail & Alan Lichtman is a fool who maybe wanted to ruin his perfect record. either that or the whole thing's rigged but either way he was wrong about the outcome

and just like 4y ago I really hope I'm wrong

[SGalisa]

Mods: Although politics is integral to much of what is said here, I am deliberately not taking any side or political view here, I am just commenting upon how politics affects the situation overall.

A few comments on your posts, SGalisa

*frelling political* "game" - This whole thing has been politicized by both major parties in the US, each trying to turn the situation to their advantage....

Annoyed, I'd rather not get into the politics of government. I was merely explaining what should have been done to make these COVID19 shutdowns work better, should it involve approving the LAW in any way, shape or form... which to individual health institutions and businesses -- it has. As mentioned that my employer laid out their own set of restrictions (RULES) that MUST be adhered to from here on in, or the employee is NOT going to be permitted to work at all. It's a "business policy" based on the CDC guidelines and sadly, what I shared from the ordeal I had to suffer thru in moving my aunt to her new apartment location, which is currently in continuous LOCK-down mode.

Quite probably, since we seem to be insisting upon re-opening everything.
. . .

Granted, we have to keep food & energy supply chains open. Even these, particularly food supplies can be handled more safely than they are. Fortunately, self-service gas pumps are a small risk.

Pray or at least *Hope for the best* that the food and necessary other stores STAY OPEN. Many are already closing, thanks to the whole COVID-19 shutdowns.

Observation based on comments elsewhere, and this is NOT to discuss political sides, but note the following----After last's night's election results, harder times are about to happen.... no guarantee of what once was even semi-open and available during 2020, will remain open and available in the next few years. That is the consensus of what I've been seeing and hearing across the USA nation, by most conservative POV's. It's been promised to happen, and will happen if a certain group of folks have *their* way. That's all that needs to be said about that.

But bars, restaurants and other activities where the primary goal is social interaction are completely unwarranted risks in light of the serious threats this disease presents for many people. And you don't even have to directly participate in these activities directly. Someone can behave themselves, stay home, and catch it from another resident in their home who does engage in high risk behavior. Dining out, going to bars, clubs, bowling and other things are not essential to one's staying alive.

Fine, easy for you to say, since you give the impressive that you seem to be more of a hermit than a *social bee*.
I can accept delaying celebrating an earmark anniversary for a few months. Not forever. At the moment, it seems that the "forever on hold" is where my hubby and I are at, because we are NOT part of some exclusive, elite class with tons of money and private property. Okay, so when I die, I can celebrate all the anniversaries and birthdays, etc, missed in my life when I get to heaven... if it's even worth bothering to remember about when one becomes part of the permanent *spirit-soul* world.


As for the restaurants, I just heard a case where a group of folks went off to eat (in a Florida restaurant), and maybe ten or 15 people were involved... well, every person at that table invite now has tested positive for COVID19, because the person who invited the group was unaware and asymptomatic WITH COVID19 on the day they went out to eat. So, now every person that entire group has been in contact with, including their families and possibly neighbors are ALL now exposed to coming down with the virus. If your going to be foolish about going out to eat in close quarters, then shame on *you*.

When our PITA of a Governor semi-opened the restaurants up, my hubby and I waited a bunch of weeks before we went out to a locale restaurant to eat. We had a private corner and wore masks when we were not eating. Nearest family-table was about 30 feet away, and maybe one other couple was in the room about 15 feet away from that other family. This was a place where Sunday brunches used to be packed with maybe 25 or 30 tables, but we picked an off-night to eat a hamburger & baked potatoes... belated birthday celebration. Both of us had NON-alcoholic drinks. The doors to the outside were also OPEN, which was confusing to figure out why if the winds were blowing outside, and it was freezing outside, too. There were no fans on inside. So, I would imagine the kitchen cooks were cooking in more ways than just prepping food. Anywho, after dinner, we took our daily vitamin boosters of C, D3 & ZINC. Did not get COVID19.

There are things people can do to prevent getting the virus, but not everyone is going to adhere to that protocol or "to do list".

For many jobs, work at home is certainly possible, and should be mandatory wherever it is possible. There is no justifiable reason for stuffing people into cubicle farms.

One thing to consider though. While the disease is likely to get worse due to our complete failure in handling it so far, the "noise level" in the media and such is almost certain to decrease once the results of the elections are known. As I mentioned above, most of it is driven by by politics.

Without the motivation of jockeying for political advantage on both sides, perhaps our leaders can actually begin to do what is needed. Yeah, I know, it's a long shot, but... it might happen.

Again, not politics, but an observational comment----I've heard some people claim that once Biden gets sworn into *power* (in 2021), this COVID-19 mask stuff will go away. I don't think so.

Some people cannot afford to work at home, because that means bringing their office / warehouse home... NOT possible. Not even sensible to drive back and forth to bring stuff home everyday, because that alone is defeating the whole purpose of staying home. Plus, when our world is forced to stop driving gas-fueled vehicles, and walk or deal with "electric" everything without having the means to get the battery storage power to keep the electricity going, this will be folly thinking too.

Of course... some of would like to work at home, get up late, stay in comfy casuals, not have to drive in all sorts of weather and traffic conditions... but that isn't always possible.

As for my "cubicle farm"... some (office) work requires a Laser printer for various types of office papers/supplies and someone to pack and mail those things. The office has a nice storage area large enough to support this, which cannot be done in one's own home, if mailing out humongous boxes of books and other items... you're asking for the impossible by forcing someone to drag and stock van-sized supplies into their own home and deal with it. Maybe some folks have LARGE enough homes, others live in tiny abodes, and NOT always by choice, but economics. Long distance driving is another issue, that some folks cannot avoid either. Walking or biking to work is not an option for some of us "senior" aging folks, either, regardless of those wonder folks whom the media tracks down and declares "See? They can do it, so can YOU!". Sure.

[Annoyed]

Fine, easy for you to say, since you give the impressive that you seem to be more of a hermit than a *social bee*.
I can accept delaying celebrating an earmark anniversary for a few months. Not forever. At the moment, it seems that the "forever on hold" is where my hubby and I are at, because we are NOT part of some exclusive, elite class with tons of money and private property. Okay, so when I die, I can celebrate all the anniversaries and birthdays, etc, missed in my life when I get to heaven... if it's even worth bothering to remember about when one becomes part of the permanent *spirit-soul* world.

You're quite correct, I am a hermit by nature. So not socializing is perfectly normal for me. That doesn't change the fact that isolation is our only effective weapon one bit. I just happen to be lucky in that regard, that isolation doesn't change my behavior.

As for the restaurants, I just heard a case where a group of folks went off to eat (in a Florida restaurant), and maybe ten or 15 people were involved... well, every person at that table invite now has tested positive for COVID19, because the person who invited the group was unaware and asymptomatic WITH COVID19 on the day they went out to eat. So, now every person that entire group has been in contact with, including their families and possibly neighbors are ALL now exposed to coming down with the virus. If your going to be foolish about going out to eat in close quarters, then shame on *you*.

Sounds like a good argument for closing restaurants down to me.

As to the rest of your comments, politics has a great deal to do with most of it, and I don't want to get into that aspect further; I've made my points and don't wish to further risk the ire of the mods.

[Falcon Horus]

That would remove the incentive for developing new drugs and medicines.

Hence why it's so hard for pharmaceutical companies to create drugs/medication for diseases which have a limited number of patients. The costs of manufacturing are too high to warrant the production at all, and when they are manufactured, the cost is driven up out of proportion so that most patients who need them, can't afford them, thereby the companies don't produce them cause nobody's gonna use them anyway. It's an endless circle.

Interesting article about the costs of development (though based on financial records from smaller companies as the big ones generally are not so eager to release their numbers): Average cost of developing a new drug could be up to $1.5 billion less than pharmaceutical industry claims

Source: Catholic University of Leuven (KULeuven)

Pray or at least *Hope for the best* that the food and necessary other stores STAY OPEN. Many are already closing, thanks to the whole COVID-19 shutdowns.

Our current "lockdown" rules regulate that essential stores can remain open, which means foodstores are open but of course have to maintain the health regulations as are set forth in the Federal/Flemish/Walloon/German/Brussels Government notes (and yes, we have to follow our Federal and regional guidelines, the latter differing per region but not by much -- curfew f.e. is between midnight and 5am in Flanders, while it's between 10pm and 6am in the other regions).

Professions which require direct contact with clients, such as beauty and hair salons, are closed down. Restaurants and bars are closed down. Take-away until 10pm is OK, and no selling of alcohol after 8pm.

Schools are closed for 2 weeks instead of the usual 1 week at the start of November -- autumn vacation (literal translation for it has no other name).

Work from home is mandatory, but if you have to go into the office, you need to have an official piece of paper to prove that you can't work from home. Without it, you're in violation of the current regulations.

...easy for you to say, since you give the impressive that you seem to be more of a hermit than a *social bee*.

I literally can't imagine Annoyed as a "social bee"... and I'm trying really hard here.

(gateworld's version of "social bee" notwithstanding)

I can accept delaying celebrating an earmark anniversary for a few months.

I'll be celebrating my 40th birthday in January. I don't expect to celebrate it with friends or family... but that's not going to stop me from enjoying it.

I really wanted to go back to the UK next year, in Summer, and do another big hike. Unfortunately, that'll probably not happen 10 years after doing Hadrian's Wall Walk. I was so looking forward to the Lindisfarne Way.

As for the restaurants, I just heard a case where a group of folks went off to eat (in a Florida restaurant), and maybe ten or 15 people were involved... well, every person at that table invite now has tested positive for COVID19, because the person who invited the group was unaware and asymptomatic WITH COVID19 on the day they went out to eat. So, now every person that entire group has been in contact with, including their families and possibly neighbors are ALL now exposed to coming down with the virus. If your going to be foolish about going out to eat in close quarters, then shame on *you*.

The Spanish paper El PaÃs had a comprehensive animation explaining the spread of covid and what happens in a closed environment without the proper ventilation: A room, a bar and a classroom: how the coronavirus is spread through the air

Article is in English.

Anywho, after dinner, we took our daily vitamin boosters of C, D3 & ZINC. Did not get COVID19.

It should be noted that properties of Zinc with regards to staving off infection are not proven. It may indeed have an effect, as scientist have indeed done research, but it's not a proven fact. It's one of the many things along with social distance, facemasks and handwashing that aids in staying healthy.

There are things people can do to prevent getting the virus, but not everyone is going to adhere to that protocol or "to do list".

Unfortunately no...

Again, not politics, but an observational comment----I've heard some people claim that once Biden gets sworn into *power* (in 2021), this COVID-19 mask stuff will go away. I don't think so.

I think you can put your clock to it that it will be a mandatory feature.

Of course... some of would like to work at home, get up late, stay in comfy casuals, not have to drive in all sorts of weather and traffic conditions... but that isn't always possible.

Hence why health regulations are important at the work space so workers have a safe environment to doing their jobs.

[Annoyed]

Our current "lockdown" rules regulate that essential stores can remain open, which means foodstores are open but of course have to maintain the health regulations as are set forth in the Federal/Flemish/Walloon/German/Brussels Government notes (and yes, we have to follow our Federal and regional guidelines, the latter differing per region but not by much -- curfew f.e. is between midnight and 5am in Flanders, while it's between 10pm and 6am in the other regions).

Professions which require direct contact with clients, such as beauty and hair salons, are closed down. Restaurants and bars are closed down. Take-away until 10pm is OK, and no selling of alcohol after 8pm.

Schools are closed for 2 weeks instead of the usual 1 week at the start of November -- autumn vacation (literal translation for it has no other name).

Work from home is mandatory, but if you have to go into the office, you need to have an official piece of paper to prove that you can't work from home. Without it, you're in violation of the current regulations.

It looks like you folks have your heads on straight regarding this, with one glaring exception - the duration.

You should be thinking in terms of six months minimum, longer if needed. not weeks. But optimism is a universal human failing, so I get why they think that way.

Originally Posted by SGalisa
Again, not politics, but an observational comment----I've heard some people claim that once Biden gets sworn into *power* (in 2021), this COVID-19 mask stuff will go away. I don't think so.

I think you can put your clock to it that it will be a mandatory feature.

I don't think it matters who gets elected, I think it will go away one there is a final decision one way or another, removing the motive for manipulating the situation for for political gain. But that may not happen till 2026 or so. I don't care who claims what initially, this election is going to the courts.

[Falcon Horus]

It looks like you folks have your heads on straight regarding this, with one glaring exception - the duration.

Duration for me is never long enough... I get the desire to want to let loose a little but I think we should at least sit it out until after new year's.

But that may not happen till 2026 or so.

According to the scientific world, we should be able to return to some form of normalcy around 2024, at which point most of the worldly population should have been vaccinated against it.

[Annoyed]

According to the scientific world, we should be able to return to some form of normalcy around 2024, at which point most of the worldly population should have been vaccinated against it.

Since when has the scientific world knew what was going on with this? They change their minds every two weeks, depending upon who is pulling their chain.

Example: A pharma company announced a possible vaccine this morning, claiming 90% effectiveness. How much you want to bet that is changed multiple times?

[Falcon Horus]

Since when has the scientific world knew what was going on with this? They change their minds every two weeks, depending upon who is pulling their chain.

Example: A pharma company announced a possible vaccine this morning, claiming 90% effectiveness. How much you want to bet that is changed multiple times?

I know you are suspicious of most scientific research, but I don't have that prejudice towards these companies. I have not been shortchanged by any of them, and I have every confidence that when they say it's 90% effective, they are not just saying that for the sake of it.

If it's not, they have more to loose than just their reputation here.

[SoulReaver]

Since when has the scientific world knew what was going on with this?

as I said before the pharma indu$try isn't about science it's about profit. those are private megacorporations

[Annoyed]

I know you are suspicious of most scientific research, but I don't have that prejudice towards these companies. I have not been shortchanged by any of them, and I have every confidence that when they say it's 90% effective, they are not just saying that for the sake of it.

It's not just private companies. The CDC, the WHO and just about everyone else have changed their minds and tunes more often than some people change their shorts. Much of the change due to politics. Example via PM shortly.

If it's not, they have more to loose than just their reputation here.

Since when does anything have any consequences anymore? How many times have companies, media outlets and just about any other type of entity there is outright lied or misled folks and they go right on doing so and people believe them?

"Short Attention Span Theater" rules the day.