Discussion about hot topics trending today

[Falcon Horus]

If I were in that position, and the governing body of a sport told me that I had to give up an advantage that I was naturally endowed with, I would tell that sport to go do something physically impossibly with itself. I would never go along with that.

*sigh*

Testosteron is considered an illegal substance in order to enhance ones body.
Having naturally high levels cannot be helped and is quite the advantage, but it's against the rules. As long as those rules aren't changed (unlike the current ones dealing with transgenders) female competitors will have to deal with it.

[Annoyed]

We just see things different, I guess. I see it as as long as it's a naturally occurring situation, advantage or not, I call it fair. Other athletes will just have to deal with it. And It's quite likely that the other athletes have other advantages. Should someone have to be "detuned" because they have a natural aptitude for a particular sport or skill?

[garhkal]

I don't see it as her having an unfair advantage; she's using the body that her creator gave her, as it was given to her. Many sports figures have natural advantages over other competitors, aptitude, body make up, etc.. as long as nothing is artificially modified, I'm good with that.

But that she is switching sexes to ME does not mean she is 'using what the creator gave her'.

[SoulReaver]

Then they can't afford to live there.

good idea, they should move (if they can afford to)

[Annoyed]

But that she is switching sexes to ME does not mean she is 'using what the creator gave her'.

No, by this point, I'm talking about a natural born XX female, not a gender change. Women naturally produce testosterone, just as males naturally produce estrogen, and the naturally occurring T level in some women is higher and in others it's lower.
FH is saying that some sport requires "natural" females with high naturally occurring T levels artificially lower that level in order to make things "fair". Poppycock.

[Annoyed]

good idea, they should move (if they can afford to)

If someone can afford the rent in an apartment complex right on the ocean, they are no "commoner", as you call them, and can certainly afford to move.

[SoulReaver]

If someone can afford the rent in an apartment complex right on the ocean, they are no "commoner", as you call them, and can certainly afford to move.

'cept it says

people who get houses/mobile homes and live in KNOWN tornado/flood zones

never was anything mentioned about luxury homes in expensive areas (unless you think risky zones & high rent zones coincide?)
if anything the rent would be lower precisely because of the risk factor

[Annoyed]

I was speaking specifically about the situation in California. garhkal was speaking more generically.

[Falcon Horus]

Should someone have to be "detuned" because they have a natural aptitude for a particular sport or skill?

Hey, I don't make the rules.

Detuned - are you comparing athletes with cars?

But that she is switching sexes to ME does not mean she is 'using what the creator gave her'.

No, we are discussing a natural occuring higher level of testosterone.
Male-to-female weren't allowed to compete in female divisions if they hadn't fully transitioned. Those rules are now changed by the IOC - however their testosterone level has to be below a certain number.

No, by this point, I'm talking about a natural born XX female, not a gender change. Women naturally produce testosterone, just as males naturally produce estrogen, and the naturally occurring T level in some women is higher and in others it's lower.

That.

If someone can afford the rent in an apartment complex right on the ocean, they are no "commoner", as you call them, and can certainly afford to move.

I would say high-above-average, not like the average joe in the street.

[garhkal]

In other news.. A 17 yr old in Denmark who was attacked and the attacker tried sexually assaulting her, is now the one in hot water, cause SHE defended herself using Pepper spray, which is supposedly illegal to own in Denmark..

http://gunsnfreedom.com/17-year-old-...g-charges/6309

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/w...60e4d7dca1fb82

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=13619204

That is IMO way out of line. She should be being praised, NOT bashed by the law.

[Gatefan1976]

In other news.. A 17 yr old in Denmark who was attacked and the attacker tried sexually assaulting her, is now the one in hot water, cause SHE defended herself using Pepper spray, which is supposedly illegal to own in Denmark..

http://gunsnfreedom.com/17-year-old-...g-charges/6309

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/w...60e4d7dca1fb82

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=13619204

That is IMO way out of line. She should be being praised, NOT bashed by the law.

She's not getting bashed, she is in "trouble" for having an illegal weapon. Defending yourself or not, the law still matters.
(though, It is a pretty silly thing to be illegal to be fair)

[Annoyed]

I'm guessing Denmark has no private gun ownership. See what happens when the gun control nuts get their way?

[aretood2]

I didn't make the rules, but giving her an unfair advantage to the rest of the competing athletes doesn't smell of fair play.

Boxers are weighed for a reason too, so they don't compete outside of their weightclass. Same difference.

The boxers example is a bad one.

Boxers aren't told they can't box, they are just placed in a "league" for boxing. But that has more to do with the particular nature of that sport. I can be 200lb's and never boxed a day in my life and with one punch I could knock out a 130lb boxer.

The only thing testosterone does for a basketball player is it increases endurance only if proper training is used. I can assure you, the vast majority of female athletes can out due me since I am not in shape despite my much higher level of testosterone regardless of our weight.

*sigh*

Testosteron is considered an illegal substance in order to enhance ones body.
Having naturally high levels cannot be helped and is quite the advantage, but it's against the rules. As long as those rules aren't changed (unlike the current ones dealing with transgenders) female competitors will have to deal with it.

Okay, I think I see the problem. You are arguing that it is the rules. Annoyed, and everyone else, agrees with that. It's the rules, it's what's in the books. But just because something is in the rules, that doesn't mean it is fair or unfair nor does it mean if it is discrimination or not.

Discrimination is discrimination no matter the justification. Treading transgender athletes differently base on their transition (whether to male or female) is discrimination. Discrimination means treating someone differently because of race, ethnicity, gender, religion etc. The rules are clearly discriminatory no matter how justified or "fair" they are.

[Gatefan1976]

I'm guessing Denmark has no private gun ownership. See what happens when the gun control nuts get their way?

Yeah, no one got killed.
No one got to be Judge, Jury and executioner.

Oh, BTW, this has nothing to do with guns, but more stand your ground laws.

[Gatefan1976]

The boxers example is a bad one.

Boxers aren't told they can't box, they are just placed in a "league" for boxing. But that has more to do with the particular nature of that sport. I can be 200lb's and never boxed a day in my life and with one punch I could knock out a 130lb boxer.

The only thing testosterone does for a basketball player is it increases endurance only if proper training is used. I can assure you, the vast majority of female athletes can out due me since I am not in shape despite my much higher level of testosterone regardless of our weight.


Okay, I think I see the problem. You are arguing that it is the rules. Annoyed, and everyone else, agrees with that. It's the rules, it's what's in the books. But just because something is in the rules, that doesn't mean it is fair or unfair nor does it mean if it is discrimination or not.

Discrimination is discrimination no matter the justification. Treading transgender athletes differently base on their transition (whether to male or female) is discrimination. Discrimination means treating someone differently because of race, ethnicity, gender, religion etc. The rules are clearly discriminatory no matter how justified or "fair" they are.

One is a set of rules applied to a sport or game.
One is for every facet of some ones life.
Such a hard thing to differentiate.............