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    You all lost me at equal and fair.

    Y'all know athletes build up muscles right - they work hard to get to their very best. Like I said, Venus and Serena could easily take on a Federer or Nadal and win the game. They are of equal strength, and identify as female and male.

    As to testosterone in athletes - natural or otherwise:

    Testosterone can be used by an athlete in order to improve performance, but it is considered to be a form of doping in most sports. There are several application methods for testosterone, including intramuscular injections, transdermal gels and patches, and implantable pellets. Hormone supplements cause the endocrine system to adjust its production and lower the natural production of the hormone, so when supplements are discontinued, natural hormone production is lower than it was originally. This is known as the Farquharson phenomenon.[citation needed]

    Anabolic steroids (including testosterone) have also been taken to enhance muscle development, strength, or endurance. They do so directly by increasing the muscles' protein synthesis. As a result, muscle fibers become larger and repair faster than the average person's.

    After a series of scandals and publicity in the 1980s (such as Ben Johnson's improved performance at the 1988 Summer Olympics), prohibitions of anabolic steroid use were renewed or strengthened by many sports organizations. Testosterone and other anabolic steroids were designated a "controlled substance" by the United States Congress in 1990, with the Anabolic Steroid Control Act.[113] Their use is seen as a seriously problematic[citation needed] issue in modern sport, particularly given the lengths to which athletes and professional laboratories go to in trying to conceal such use from sports regulators. Steroid use once again came into the spotlight recently as a result of the Chris Benoit double murder-suicide in 2007, however, there has been no evidence indicating steroid use as a contributing factor.[citation needed]

    Some female athletes may have naturally higher levels of testosterone than others, and may be asked to consent to a “therapeutic proposal”, either surgery or drugs, to decrease testosterone levels to a level thought acceptable to compete fairly with others
    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

    Comment


      Some female athletes may have naturally higher levels of testosterone than others, and may be asked to consent to a “therapeutic proposal”, either surgery or drugs, to decrease testosterone levels to a level thought acceptable to compete fairly with others
      Now that would be wrong. If the female in question's T levels are higher because that's how she was born, with no artificial manipulation, she should be allowed to compete with her body as it was given to her.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
        Now that would be wrong. If the female in question's T levels are higher because that's how she was born, with no artificial manipulation, she should be allowed to compete with her body as it was given to her.
        Sprinters didn't want Oscar Pistorius competing for he had too much spring in his artificial feet.

        In sports, nothing is fair... I competed in a sport with a mixed playing field, male and female competitors all alike. We all had to follow the same rules.
        Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

        Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

        Comment


          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
          Sprinters didn't want Oscar Pistorius competing for he had too much spring in his artificial feet.

          In sports, nothing is fair... I competed in a sport with a mixed playing field, male and female competitors all alike. We all had to follow the same rules.
          I can understand that. But those "feet' were not OEM issue, so maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to compete. However, that would raise a entirely different shiznitstorm. We've become so overly sensitive to everything that in cases such as this, it's not politically correct to speak the truth about the matter.

          But in the case of a female with an very high natural level of testosterone, as long as it's what she was born with, not artificial, I can't justify disqualifying her.
          Last edited by Annoyed; 26 January 2016, 06:24 AM.

          Comment


            And now from the "I did something stupid, somebody else should pay for it" dept...

            This is almost as laughable as New Orleans wanting taxpayer assistance to rebuild...

            http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...126-story.html

            Apartment buildings lining a rocky cliff overlooking the ocean in Pacifica, Calif., are in peril after recent El Niño storms severely eroded the crumbling bluff.

            Video recorded from a drone posted on YouTube over the weekend shows several buildings on Esplanade Avenue teetering on the cliff’s edge as other portions of the bluff appear to have disintegrated into the crashing waves below.

            City Manager Lorie Tinfow declared a local emergency after the storms not only wreaked havoc on the cliffside, but also caused damage to Pacifica Pier and the Milagra Watershed. Rains also triggered the failure of a seawall along Beach Boulevard and Santa Maria Avenue in the coastal Bay Area city, about 15 miles south of San Francisco.
            Now, I'm quite sure those were very pricey apartments which afforded the occupants a beautiful view of the sunset, and the rents for them made the property owner a very nice chunk of change.

            Of course, there was always a risk that the Pacific ocean may rise up and make things miserable. Which it seems to be in the process of doing.

            The people who made the money off those apartments and those who enjoyed the view must shoulder the cost, right?

            Of course not!!

            Tinfow called for state and federal assistance to help with the city’s failing infrastructure.
            Welcome to the Entitled States of America.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
              And now from the "I did something stupid, somebody else should pay for it" dept...

              This is almost as laughable as New Orleans wanting taxpayer assistance to rebuild...

              http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...126-story.html



              Now, I'm quite sure those were very pricey apartments which afforded the occupants a beautiful view of the sunset, and the rents for them made the property owner a very nice chunk of change.

              Of course, there was always a risk that the Pacific ocean may rise up and make things miserable. Which it seems to be in the process of doing.

              The people who made the money off those apartments and those who enjoyed the view must shoulder the cost, right?

              Of course not!!



              Welcome to the Entitled States of America.
              Agreed. Its imo just like people who get houses/mobile homes and live in KNOWN tornado/flood zones, but don't bother getting insurance then whine to big government to bail them out when the house gets smashed..

              Comment


                And in other news, MORE wussification of America..

                A High school gals basketball team is booted off their league, cause the OTHER teams, whined that the team was 'too good' to compete with, so threatened that they would NOT play that team..??

                http://www.wnd.com/2016/01/basketbal...eing-too-good/

                Comment


                  Yeah, I saw that the other day. Freaking absurd.

                  http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/9...1#post14449662

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                    Agreed. Its imo just like people who get houses/mobile homes and live in KNOWN tornado/flood zones, but don't bother getting insurance then whine to big government to bail them out when the house gets smashed..
                    and the fact that insurance may be unaffordable to the commoner is just a detail

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                      Yeah, I saw that the other day. Freaking absurd.

                      http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/9...1#post14449662
                      Forgot you hit it.. Sorry annoyed..


                      As to the insurance issue.. Both times i have bought a house, i was required to have insurance (and proof of it) to complete the sale.. Is that something not required by all agencies??

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                        But in the case of a female with an very high natural level of testosterone, as long as it's what she was born with, not artificial, I can't justify disqualifying her.
                        They are not disqualified, they just need to proof they brought it down in order to be able to compete in their chosen division.

                        Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                        As to the insurance issue.. Both times i have bought a house, i was required to have insurance (and proof of it) to complete the sale.. Is that something not required by all agencies??
                        I quite honestly have no idea but I would guess it would have to be.

                        Whomever is owner of the building, not the individual appartments, is responsible for the infrastructure to be stable on the cliff. So, if that were the state or some private company, they would be the ones having to pay the bill to make sure it's safe to live there right now.

                        Whomever thought it was a good idea to build near a cliff, should go back to school and learn about erosion.
                        Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                        Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by SoulReaver View Post
                          and the fact that insurance may be unaffordable to the commoner is just a detail
                          Then they can't afford to live there.

                          Comment


                            Originally Posted by Annoyed
                            But in the case of a female with an very high natural level of testosterone, as long as it's what she was born with, not artificial, I can't justify disqualifying her.
                            Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                            They are not disqualified, they just need to proof they brought it down in order to be able to compete in their chosen division.
                            That's not right either. If her high testosterone level is not artificial, she should be allowed to compete just the way she is. It's not cheating unless her T level was manipulated in some way.


                            Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                            Whomever is owner of the building, not the individual appartments, is responsible for the infrastructure to be stable on the cliff. So, if that were the state or some private company, they would be the ones having to pay the bill to make sure it's safe to live there right now.

                            Whomever thought it was a good idea to build near a cliff, should go back to school and learn about erosion.
                            Exactly. There is no justification for the taxpayers to bail these folks out.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                              That's not right either. If her high testosterone level is not artificial, she should be allowed to compete just the way she is. It's not cheating unless her T level was manipulated in some way.
                              I didn't make the rules, but giving her an unfair advantage to the rest of the competing athletes doesn't smell of fair play.

                              Boxers are weighed for a reason too, so they don't compete outside of their weightclass. Same difference.
                              Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

                              Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                                I didn't make the rules, but giving her an unfair advantage to the rest of the competing athletes doesn't smell of fair play.

                                Boxers are weighed for a reason too, so they don't compete outside of their weightclass. Same difference.
                                I don't see it as her having an unfair advantage; she's using the body that her creator gave her, as it was given to her. Many sports figures have natural advantages over other competitors, aptitude, body make up, etc.. as long as nothing is artificially modified, I'm good with that.

                                If I were in that position, and the governing body of a sport told me that I had to give up an advantage that I was naturally endowed with, I would tell that sport to go do something physically impossibly with itself. I would never go along with that.

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