A Discussion/Debate on Religion & Other Closely Related Topics

[Gatefan1976]

That sounds like politics to me.

It should be.
But when you have religious groups trying to assert "moral authority" into political issues, the religion becomes fair game.
The spread of AIDS in Africa -should- have been a health and political issue, but religious groups all but brainwashed the people that safe sex via the use of condoms was "morally corrupt", which made it a religious issue.

If religion does not want to be "dragged in" to such issues, they should keep their grubby paws -out- of it to start with, because they are not "dragged in", they put their feet into it willingly.

[aretood2]

It should be.
But when you have religious groups trying to assert "moral authority" into political issues, the religion becomes fair game.
The spread of AIDS in Africa -should- have been a health and political issue, but religious groups all but brainwashed the people that safe sex via the use of condoms was "morally corrupt", which made it a religious issue.

So? That's a political group acting on a political vendetta. Unless you're going to discuss theology, it is political. As for AIDS and brainwashing...is there any actual science behind that word anyway? It only seems to be used by a small segment of psychologists and sociologists mainly to talk about groups that don't agree with mainstream religion...and make big bucks out of "deprogramming" people. But I digress.

The condoms thing is a religious issue...The goal isn't to spread AIDS, that is an incidental result. Those same religious groups exist in places like Mexico, yet despite having a larger population than South Africa it has a drastically lower population that is AIDS/HIV positive. And trust me, where the Catholic Church advocates no Condoms, Protestant Churches do not tend to differ in that area.

If religion does not want to be "dragged in" to such issues, they should keep their grubby paws -out- of it to start with, because they are not "dragged in", they put their feet into it willingly.

This doesn't make much sense at all. This thread is to ask religious questions and discuss said questions. If you want to discuss gay marriage as in why it is a sin in Christianity, that's fair. But to ask for justification in national policy and the "theories" used to further that cause...that is a political discussion. No where in the Bible does it mention the downfall of civilization or whatnot. Nor does any real theological composition be it written or oral. You'll only find that in discourses that are political in nature.

[Falcon Horus]

*giggles*

Was Jesus really nailed to the cross?
Artefacts suggest tales of the crucifixion may have become myth and tradition

[SoulReaver]

So? That's a political group acting on a political vendetta. Unless you're going to discuss theology

ah but ain't that precisely what they already do

leaving aside the whole condom thing, I mean much more serious probs
like in ultra-theocratic Salvador ("we want abortion banned without exception because it's God's will!"), result, no more women's rights in that country. what's the next step, make 'em wear some kinda burka?

therefore this sort of problem is as much religious as it is political because they make it religious

[Coco Pops]

Why do people who claim to be religious enter into politics and then try to shove those values onto everyone? It's a pretty basic question but has a very complicated answer or two and I don't think I even know of a solution.

It's sad living here in Australia and we have such a government hell bent on imposing that view on people regardless of what the population might want.

[aretood2]

*giggles*

Was Jesus really nailed to the cross?
Artefacts suggest tales of the crucifixion may have become myth and tradition

Click bait much? All it does is Confirmed what is found by simply reading the accounts in the New Testament, that the nailing to the cross was at first a minor detail and thus not mentioned everywhere it could have. Thus graffiti images would almost exclusively show him tied to the cross. Especially considering that most Romans had a hard time of telling Christians and Jews apart...it's not surprising that they wouldn't have a good understanding of such details

Then there's the issue of the cross itself. Even within Christianity the exact shape isn't agreed to. Some say it was a pool, others say that there was more than one crossbeam, others argue for a different position of the crossbeam. All pretty minor.

But the big takeaway here is...the crucifixion itself is not in question at all.

ah but ain't that precisely what they already do

leaving aside the whole condom thing, I mean much more serious probs
like in ultra-theocratic Salvador ("we want abortion banned without exception because it's God's will!"), result, no more women's rights in that country. what's the next step, make 'em wear some kinda burka?

therefore this sort of problem is as much religious as it is political because they make it religious

We'll take once they start making burkas mandatory in EL Salvador.

Why do people who claim to be religious enter into politics and then try to shove those values onto everyone? It's a pretty basic question but has a very complicated answer or two and I don't think I even know of a solution.

It's sad living here in Australia and we have such a government hell bent on imposing that view on people regardless of what the population might want.

So is your question about why gay marriage is a sin? Is it about how it "can cause the downfall of civilization?" Or is it why religious people make it political? The first and the last question is fair game for a religious discussion. It's the second question that I feel is not religious in nature because it is not theological.

[SoulReaver]

We'll take once they start making burkas mandatory in EL Salvador.

bleh, the burkas wouldn't change much to the already existent sharia inquisition

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...scarriage.html

ain't much better in the civilized west though

http://jezebel.com/5960385/woman-den...es-in-hospital

(they don't need burkas either)

[Coco Pops]

[COLOR="#000080"]


So is your question about why gay marriage is a sin? Is it about how it "can cause the downfall of civilization?" Or is it why religious people make it political? The first and the last question is fair game for a religious discussion. It's the second question that I feel is not religious in nature because it is not theological.

My question is all of the above.

Why in a democratic society do we have some people willing to force their worldview on the whole of society?

[jelgate]

Because we live in a Democratic society. This isn't only a religion thing. Political parties force their views for example

[Falcon Horus]

Because that's how the world works... and has worked. And then people revolt against it. And then it starts all over again.

[aretood2]

My question is all of the above.

Why in a democratic society do we have some people willing to force their worldview on the whole of society?

That's quite a question. I'll talk about 'Murica because it's a good place for me to focus on for obvious reasons. (As an aside, I do believe that we should call it 'Murica to differentiate 'Muricans from Americans in general).

There's an entire idea that somehow God cares about the US specifically. It's part of the concept of American 'Murican exceptionalism. Many "Christians" see the US as an extension of the Christian community. They see an identity as Christian being the same as American. It's a thing that has built up over time.

For example, Charity Bryant and Sylvia Drake were a lesbian couple that lived in the US in the 1800's. Their marriage was recorded by a Hiram Burlburt as a curios thing. There were many many curious things in the US. The language used to describe them was a language of impossibility (There's actually a good article I read about this in The Journal of American History). Meaning that by actually naming it and recognizing it (normalizing it) people were able to cope and even accept the curious things when they ran into it.

Bryant and Sylvia were active members of the Church community. Eventually the idea that these aren't curious things, oddities to raise eyebrows, but something that can be normalized challenges the image of a State as a Church. It threatens that divine image of the US and threatens the people's "Christian" identity.

The problem with many people who try to impose Christian "law" on others is that they forget that according to the Bible, no man made nation can be the Church community. God simply doesn't care about nations, he cares about individuals and personal salvation. He isn't going to punish me because someone else who isn't even part of my Church sins. If he was...well...this country would have been dead a long long time ago.

In essence, instead of looking to the Kingdom of heaven, they look to the US as the pedestal for salvation, for Christian Identity. And asking the US government to legalize gay marriage is an immediate threat to that that they feel should be opposed. Otherwise it would quite literally bring down that identity. For others like me, I don't care. My true citizenship is with God's kingdom, not any worldly nation. Just like Jesus said, "I am not of this world."

So when you have American Evangelicals fighting against gay marriage legalization, they are quite literally defending their "church" which is the US. As for other groups like Catholics, the reasons can very from the same to the idea of communal reward/punishment from God. But for those who pay attention to Jesus' words...that needs not be a concern.

[Coco Pops]

That's quite a question. I'll talk about 'Murica because it's a good place for me to focus on for obvious reasons. (As an aside, I do believe that we should call it 'Murica to differentiate 'Muricans from Americans in general).

There's an entire idea that somehow God cares about the US specifically. It's part of the concept of American 'Murican exceptionalism. Many "Christians" see the US as an extension of the Christian community. They see an identity as Christian being the same as American. It's a thing that has built up over time.

For example, Charity Bryant and Sylvia Drake were a lesbian couple that lived in the US in the 1800's. Their marriage was recorded by a Hiram Burlburt as a curios thing. There were many many curious things in the US. The language used to describe them was a language of impossibility (There's actually a good article I read about this in The Journal of American History). Meaning that by actually naming it and recognizing it (normalizing it) people were able to cope and even accept the curious things when they ran into it.

Bryant and Sylvia were active members of the Church community. Eventually the idea that these aren't curious things, oddities to raise eyebrows, but something that can be normalized challenges the image of a State as a Church. It threatens that divine image of the US and threatens the people's "Christian" identity.

Funny that name pops up I just watched an episode of the Twilight Zone titled "A Message from Charity" about a young girl who could talk to a young boy in the present and they could see the world through each other's eyes. Also the gullible town they lived in ruled over by a corrupt religious fake.

The problem with many people who try to impose Christian "law" on others is that they forget that according to the Bible, no man made nation can be the Church community. God simply doesn't care about nations, he cares about individuals and personal salvation. He isn't going to punish me because someone else who isn't even part of my Church sins. If he was...well...this country would have been dead a long long time ago.

In essence, instead of looking to the Kingdom of heaven, they look to the US as the pedestal for salvation, for Christian Identity. And asking the US government to legalize gay marriage is an immediate threat to that that they feel should be opposed. Otherwise it would quite literally bring down that identity. For others like me, I don't care. My true citizenship is with God's kingdom, not any worldly nation. Just like Jesus said, "I am not of this world."

So when you have American Evangelicals fighting against gay marriage legalization, they are quite literally defending their "church" which is the US. As for other groups like Catholics, the reasons can very from the same to the idea of communal reward/punishment from God. But for those who pay attention to Jesus' words...that needs not be a concern.

Thank you for that. I get it now.......... Excellent post.

[Coco Pops]

Because that's how the world works... and has worked. And then people revolt against it. And then it starts all over again.

Then we should continue to have more revolts and riots till good government exists

[Falcon Horus]

Then we should continue to have more revolts and riots till good government exists

It's a neverending story.

[Coco Pops]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/ent...tion=australia

This Christian terrorist tried to carry out an attack on the US Congress. Where are Ted Cruz's calls to police Christian neighborhoods, and why isn't Donald Trump demanding that we stop more Christians from entering the country? Clearly his beliefs drove him to hate America, we must defend ourselves & our way of life.

Where are the so-called moderate Christians and why aren't they more vocal about denouncing this act in the name of their religion?