Tracking Earth's Future via Current Events, etc.

[Coco Pops]

Revelation 12:9 & Rev.12:12...

Spoiler:

9) The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

12) "...
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."

above verses from the New International Version (NIV) Bible

paraphrasing the above---in the last days, the devil will be kicked out of heaven, down to the earth, where "he" will rule (obviously not visibly, but thru his minions working for him one way or another, and wreck havoc) for a little while longer.

Hang on "last days"

So how did the Devil get inside heaven when he was supposed to be on Earth at the Garden of Eden?

"my head hurts" thinking bible logic..... It's not logical

[jelgate]

Logic is not logical

[SGalisa]

Hang on "last days"

So how did the Devil get inside heaven when he was supposed to be on Earth at the Garden of Eden?

"my head hurts" thinking bible logic..... It's not logical

Bible logic is not man's logic, maybe that's why, because it from some other *world* logic..!

And just an observable sidenote -- sometimes I think the Bible writers wrote events with ADD and ADHD folks in mind -- because some of the events *seem* to occur out of chronological order or with someone having a mind that tended to go back and forth in starting a story, getting sidetracked into some bunny trails, and then returning back to where they left off prior to the bunny trail, and starting all over again. After reading the various books and prophecies over several dozens of times, I think the book of Revelation might be written this way. Of course, the more harder core folks would claim the events *are* in chronological order. *sigh*

Anywho..
Time is irrelevant on God's calendar. Lucifer was ordered to be banished and crawl like a serpent in Genesis after s/he (it?) tricked Eve with the forbidden fruit. When he was officially cast out of heaven shows up in Revelation 12:9.
According to many Bible folks studying this stuff, before the event in Revelation 12:9 occurs, he (Lucifer / Satan/the devil) has permission access into heaven and back down to earth. The gate or door is open, as Lucifer/the devil has been recorded to have negotiated with "God" on testing various humans to be or remain faithful to "God's ways".

Read the book of Job 1:6-12. Apparently, the devil / Satan enters heaven via an angelic escort (whereby he might be under guard from being allowed to wander elsewhere around the heavens? IDK.) One of the initial conversations in negotiating with the Almighty God in heaven whom the devil may devour, is revealed in Job 1:6-12. Also, noted by Bible scholars on this issue, is the belief that the devil must first seek permission from "God" to test anyone, before accomplishing anything with evil intent. If that's not true, then Satan at least has displayed some manners -- mode of conduct -- before doing his deeds (or sending his minions after the rest of us).

Spoiler:

Job 1:6-12, from the New International Version (NIV)

6) One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.
7) The Lord said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"

Satan answered the Lord, "From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it."

8) Then the Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."

9) "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied.
10) "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land.
11) But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

12) The Lord said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."

Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

Anyone who claims (the person) Job did not exist, well, I've met quite a few folks who would love to have some very intense conversations with Job (sharing their experiences of woes, and how they managed to overcome such things!).

Logic is not logical

I agree! Especially after taking a college class in logic.. most of the class failed the final exam.
Because of that, we all got graded on "the curve" grading system.

[aretood2]

Hang on "last days"

So how did the Devil get inside heaven when he was supposed to be on Earth at the Garden of Eden?

"my head hurts" thinking bible logic..... It's not logical

Because not everything in Revelations is "in the future." If you read Job, it says that the devil roams the earth. Apostle Paul calls him the god of this world, the father of the children of wrath that are overtaken by this world's current. In other words, SG's beliefs collide here with mine. The devil has been ruling on Earth for a long time.

[jelgate]

Its true. I have been a ruler for a long time

[Womble]

Because not everything in Revelations is "in the future." If you read Job, it says that the devil roams the earth. Apostle Paul calls him the god of this world, the father of the children of wrath that are overtaken by this world's current. In other words, SG's beliefs collide here with mine. The devil has been ruling on Earth for a long time.

How can the devil rule the earth, if God is all-powerful and there is no force in the world outside of God?

Makes no sense.

[SGalisa]

How can the devil rule the earth, if God is all-powerful and there is no force in the world outside of God?

Makes no sense.

Easy, "God" granted the devil permission to do so -- that is the simplest of all the answers.
Since Adam and Eve "sinned" and subjected to being cast out of Eden (with Eden being somewhere in the heavens above or actually here on earth), the devil or serpent (who deceived Eve) was sent along with them to set up temporary homes for the duration.
(sorry, otherwise, IDK).

For one thing, this is probably an advanced Bible search question, which can get complicated because the answer is scattered thruout the entire Bible (not in chronological order). So, I will leave the more complicated stuff to someone else and note only what I've read (here via Ryrie study Bible note references, with bolded font {by me} for emphasis).

Somehow, based on the below info, I'm going to *guess* that because "the devil" has taken a fascination to humans, above all other life in the universe (if there is any), earth has become Satan's little playground. He seems to have an established throne somewhere on earth (see verses mentioned below in spoiler quotes), but will ultimately "rule" over the entire planet when Revelation 13 is fulfilled (that's a short detail that requires more intensive study).

Judgement was pronounced against the devil in Eden at Genesis 3:14-15

Spoiler:

Genesis 3:14-15, New International Version (NIV)

14) 'So the Lord God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,

"Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel."'

(Genesis 3:15 requires a more lengthy study--explanation, which I will not go into here.)

Firstly, would the term *serpent* be equivalent to a snake oil con-artist? Thus, the word--serpent is used..?

Also, according to the above verses, if the so-called *serpent* truly was Lucifer or the devil, it seems to imply that the offspring were already mixed between the angels that rebelled against heaven and the humans already on earth in Eden and regional areas thereabouts..! ..just saying..that's what it looks like -- so already, there is an unknown time gap of changes between the beginning of Eden and the days of Noah, when the Nephilium (and offspring thereof) were destroyed via "THE Flood".


According to Ezekiel 28:14, Lucifer was an annointed (chosen) cherub, blameless in his ways until wickedness was "found" within him (verse 15); he was a guardian cherub (type of angel) in Ezek.28:16, and pride became his downfall. According to Revelation 2:12-13, apparently Satan has his *throne* somewhere on the earth, because the verse reads--

Spoiler:

Revelation 2:12-13 (from the New International Version (NIV))

12) '"To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword.

13) I know where you live--where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city--where Satan lives.'

Okay, I have no idea where that is, but the LORD "God" knows. And since "the LORD" is speaking about and to the Seven (main) Churches established on planet earth, that is where "Satan" (the devil) is presiding. Since the annointed cherub now has his throne somewhere on this earth (guessing, headquarters is in the European/Middle East side of earth), well, that is all we readers have to go by.

According to many prophecy experts, it is believed that when Revelation 13:2 is fulfilled ("...the dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority"--NIV),
the dragon = the devil
and the dragon hands over the dragon's *ruling throne* to the nations of the earth described as the creature with 10 horns and 7 heads.

This parallels the vision Daniel had as noted in Daniel 7, where there are 4 different beasts, but the 4th beast has ten horns upon its head and three of the horns fell off (see Daniel 7:19-25). It's interesting to note in Daniel 7:25 that the 4th beast (kingdom) will have a king arise who will

Daniel 7:25) "He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time."

So, there it is -- a time frame of 3 and 1/2 years of great tribuation (also nicknamed as "Jacob's Trouble" in Messianic groups). This same sort of kingdom is repeated in Revelation 13, where prophecy experts claim is describing the earthly Anti-Christ persona and his faithful 1st in command, False prophet. Some theorists believe that the AntiChrist will actually *become* possessed by the devil, personally, thus a physical throne will be given to the devil dwelling within a human body.

There have been lots of potential candidates for this role thruout history, but only one time frame will be designated to the time frame of Revelation 13. That time has not come yet, as most of the prophesies in the book of Revelation haven't occurred yet (and especially Rev.19, where it describes Israel's true rescuer will come from the heavens).

Revelation 19 is intriguing, because either Israel's "Savior" will come from the heavens above via some sort of aircraft, or from another world riding "white horse" (spacecraft or real pegasus? -- we don't know). This *Savior*/Messiah will touch down on the Mount of Olives, which will cause a great earthquake--see Zechariah 14:4-5

Spoiler:

Zechariah 14:1-5 (the LORD speaks of Jerusalem),
(from the New International Version (NIV))

14:1) 'A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2) I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

3) Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle.

4) On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

5) You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him."'

[Gatefan1976]

Easy, "God" granted the devil permission to do so -- that is the simplest of all the answers.

Which raises the obvious question. how can a being of supreme good allow Satan?
Or, is God not good?
OR Does God simply not care about the majority of people?

[SGalisa]

Which raises the obvious question. how can a being of supreme good allow Satan?
Or, is God not good?
OR Does God simply not care about the majority of people?

One of the possible answers I've heard is that if Adam and Eve did not sin, the earth would be a perfect paradise with no disease, no turmoil, no wars--including animals killing each other in survival of the fittest (they'd all be vegetarians or not even need food.. something like that), etc.

Continuing the above thought(s), however, because Adam and Eve sinned or disobeyed a simple command, the rest of their descendants ever since must also pay the punishment penalty for that action.

How this determines God's "Loving" character -- ask him when (not if, but when) generic you all see him. Since not many people chose to accept him now for whatever was written in the past about him (the LORD "God"), they will later learn the more difficult route instead.

--------------------

Anywho, while the world ponders over whether God is real or not and why would such a divine persona allow such horrible things to his *creation*...

...elsewhere in the news is that the Caliphate has been declared as officially formed (in Iraq -- ISIL beat Iran to the goal of forming the Caliphate).. news everywhere has posted it (NBC, CBS, Reuters, BBC, Haaretz and a whole bunch of other news gathering folks).
And the guy who was let go who said he'll see his prison commander in New York, well, that guy is now the leader of the new "Islamic State". ISIS apparently was a name the media gave it, ISIL was the name they were known by, but the media kept calling them ISIS, and now ISIL / ISIS is now the
I.S. = Islamic State.
Plus, they have declared themselves as *supreme* over all of Islam and everyone must now acknowledge and basically bow down to their rule of (SHARIA) law -- GLOBALLY.

[SoulReaver]

Which raises the obvious question. how can a being of supreme good allow Satan?
Or, is God not good?
OR Does God simply not care about the majority of people?

which raises another question, why the hell did my schoolteachers make me go through exams? why didn't they just give us our degrees & make our lives easier?
or do they not care about us?

because Adam and Eve sinned or disobeyed a simple command, the rest of their descendants ever since must also pay the punishment penalty for that action.

ey that gives me an idea suppose I commit several deadly sins and later on have descendants, can I transfer the sin to them & have them punished in my place? I believe that's how it works in the bible but ain't too sure. it'd be so nice of God if he made that possible

[Gatefan1976]

One of the possible answers I've heard is that if Adam and Eve did not sin, the earth would be a perfect paradise with no disease, no turmoil, no wars--including animals killing each other in survival of the fittest (they'd all be vegetarians or not even need food.. something like that), etc.

Adam and Eve would not have fallen without the apparent willing consent of God for Satan to tempt them at all. You can say that is the failure of man, but as an Omniscient being, the meal was cooked a long time ago.

Continuing the above thought(s), however, because Adam and Eve sinned or disobeyed a simple command, the rest of their descendants ever since must also pay the punishment penalty for that action.

It's a trick test, with a ridiculous cost for pre determined failure. Remove the notion that God is omniscient, and you now have a fair test.

How this determines God's "Loving" character -- ask him when (not if, but when) generic you all see him. Since not many people chose to accept him now for whatever was written in the past about him (the LORD "God"), they will later learn the more difficult route instead.

I doubt I will meet your God, not because I do not believe in the existence of your God, but I do not believe in it's Uniqueness.

[Gatefan1976]

which raises another question, why the hell did my schoolteachers make me go through exams? why didn't they just give us our degrees & make our lives easier?
or do they not care about us?

Your schoolteachers do not claim divinity and omniscience. It is also their role to educate with understanding, not tell you to do it or suffer for reasons you will never comprehend.

[SGalisa]

Anywho, while the world ponders over whether God is real or not and why would such a divine persona allow such horrible things to his *creation*...

...elsewhere in the news is that the Caliphate has been declared as officially formed (in Iraq -- ISIL beat Iran to the goal of forming the Caliphate).. news everywhere has posted it (NBC, CBS, Reuters, BBC, Haaretz and a whole bunch of other news gathering folks).
And the guy who was let go who said he'll see his prison commander in New York, well, that guy is now the leader of the new "Islamic State". ISIS apparently was a name the media gave it, ISIL was the name they were known by, but the media kept calling them ISIS, and now ISIL / ISIS is now the
I.S. = Islamic State.
Plus, they have declared themselves as *supreme* over all of Islam and everyone must now acknowledge and basically bow down to their rule of (SHARIA) law -- GLOBALLY.

continuing the above news...
Oh my goodness... I forget if I read this just last week, but Iran had plans on forming the Caliphate. When ISIL (ISIS) was taking over territories in Iraq, it seemed that Iran suddenly decided to sit back and let ISIL do the hard work on forming the Caliphate. Well, now it has been formed, and Iran must bow down to the *supreme* leader of the newly renamed "Islamic State".

I also read something about Iraq's Shia (net nanny is on!) leaders and military were in conversation with USA President Obama on Friday (that was June 27, 2014), who said the advisers being sent were dropped off and he'll talk again on Tuesday (July 1, 2014). Well, lots could happen within 4 days -- especially at the fast and furious rate ISIL (ISIS) was operating..! (Guess they took the phrase "Fast and Furious" from former president GWBush, because these guys ain't wasting any time.)

Now that they're among the rich and rather famous, they've got lots of moolah to do whatever they please.. and they plan on executing their plans to the fullest enth of SHARIA Law--on a worldwide global scale. That doesn't bode well for families with working moms (who *HAVE TO* work, because of the economy!), and teen gals (some of whom are pregnant moms as well), but have no males around to escort them, because the guys are out working or carousing somewhere.


From Reuters--

Spoiler:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0F40SL20140629

After Iraq gains, Qaeda offshoot claims Islamic "caliphate"
By Sylvia Westall

BEIRUT Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:48pm EDT

...The group, previously known as the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and also known as ISIS, has renamed itself "Islamic State" and proclaimed its leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as "Caliph" - the head of the state, the statement said.

"He is the imam and khalifah (Caliph) for the Muslims everywhere," the group's spokesman Abu Muhammad al-Adnani said in the statement, which was translated into several languages and read out in an Arabic audio speech.

"Accordingly, the "Iraq and Sham" (Levant) in the name of the Islamic State is henceforth removed from all official deliberations and communications, and the official name is the Islamic State from the date of this declaration," he said.
...

It seeks to re-create a medieval-style caliphate erasing borders from the Mediterranean to the Gulf. It deems Shi'ite Muslims to be heretics deserving death.
...

"The impact of this announcement will be global as al Qaeda affiliates and independent jihadist groups must now definitively choose to support and join the Islamic State or to oppose it."
...

From the BBC--

Spoiler:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28082962

"Isis rebels declare 'caliphate' in Iraq and Syria"
29 June 2014 Last updated at 20:05 ET

"...Islamist militant group Isis has said it is establishing a caliphate, or Islamic state, on the territories it controls in Iraq and Syria.

It also proclaimed the group's leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, as caliph and "leader for Muslims everywhere".

Setting up a caliphate ruled by the strict Islamic law has long been a goal of many jihadists.
...

Isis (the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant)...
...said the Islamic state would extend from Aleppo in northern Syria to Diyala province in eastern Iraq.

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the group said, would become the leader of the state and would be known as "Caliph Ibrahim".

In the recording, the rebels also demanded that all Muslims "pledge allegiance" to the new ruler and "reject democracy and other garbage from the West".

Isis also said that from now on it would be known simply as "the Islamic State".
...

I'm guessing the word *garbage* (used in the above article) is paraphrased?

From the Sydney Morning Herald--

Spoiler:

link is broken in beginning, please remove blank spaces to access article -- video starts up automatically

http : // www .smh. com. au/world/iraq-crisis-isil-militants-declare-caliphate-20140630-zsqcg.html

Iraq crisis: ISIL militants declare 'Caliphate'

Date
June 30, 2014 - 8:48AM

...
"The impact of this announcement will be global as al-Qaeda affiliates and independent jihadist groups must now definitively choose to support and join the Islamic State or to oppose it."

The group's statement – translated from Arabic into English, French, Russian and German -- made it clear it would perceive any group that failed to pledge allegiance an enemy of Islam," Mr Lister said.
...

Released on the first day of the holy fasting month of Ramadan, the statement establishing a caliphate, a system of rule that ended nearly 100 years ago with the fall of the Ottoman Empire, reads: "Here the flag of the Islamic State ... rises and flutters. Its shade covers land from Aleppo [Syria] and Diyala [Iraq].

"The infidels are disgraced. The Sunnis are masters and are esteemed. The people of heresy are humiliated. The Sharia penalties are implemented, all of them.

"The front lines are defended, crosses and graves demolished. Governors and judges have been appointed, a tax has been enforced and courts will resolve disputes and complaints."

Israel has no more choices left, but to go on the defensive now. ISIL previously claimed to want to include the land of Israel into its new reigning territorial region.
So, also on ISIL's *fast and furious* to do list---was a report that they were already making bombs to load on suicide missions around the world...(that was in this morning's news.. and I forget where.. just google it).


Another report came out claiming that ISIS (now "the Islamic State") is planning a large scale attack in/on, or from Lebanon. ((They ain't wasting any time in gulping up the lands, etc.))

Spoiler:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.601892

"Report: ISIS planning massive bombing wave in Lebanon"
Jihadists crucify one of their own for corruption in Syria and issue 'laws' in the Mosul area of Iraq.
By Haaretz, Jun. 29, 2014, 2:42 PM

{in addition to the article, there was some highlighted material as to what ISIL declared in Nineveh--}

'Called a "Contract of the City," the document sets out the law for residents of the area.


* All Muslims will be treated well, unless they are allied with oppressors or help criminals.

* Money taken from the government is now public. Whoever steals or loots faces amputations. Anyone who threatens or blackmails will face severe punishment (This section also quotes a verse from the Quran (Al-Ma'idah: 33) that says that criminals may be killed or crucified.)

* All Muslims are encouraged to perform their prayers with the group.

* Drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes are banned.

* Rival political or armed groups are not tolerated.

* Police and military officers can repent, but anyone who insists upon apostasy faces death.

* Sharia law is implemented.

* Graves and shrines are not allowed, and will be destroyed.

* All women are told that stability is at home and they should not go outside unless necessary. They should be covered, in full Islamic dress.

* Be happy to live in an Islamic land.'

Wonder what those residents who returned to that (Mosul, Iraq regional) area think of the *enforced* rules and regs now..


And Israel is about to be stuck in the middle of all of this. Crushed or what?
Maybe there is some truth to those bizarre Tetrad Blood Moon theories regarding the survival and testing of (Jewish) Israel. There are still 3 more blood moons to go up into 2015.

The question isn't whether or not Jewish Israel needs to stay in Israel during the time of Jacob's Trouble (time of the ruling "antiChrist" and minions, etc). Israel has returned officially in 1948 to the land it was scattered from. Where its people go from here is up to them and wherever that special place that has been prepared for them is. I don't think it will be in Jordan. It may have to be somewhere else, and doubt that place will be in the USA, either.
(Hey, Yellowstone's regional area magma is now apparently less than 15 feet below the surface and some portions already have the earth cracking! It's gonna blow soon..!)
(hmmm, a lot of eeks on here lately!)

Anyway, current plans of rebuilding for Jewish Temple preparations may have to be done elsewhere, just as in the days of Moses when the people of Israel wandered about and had no home. Jerusalem will have to wait, if this ends up being the situation. There's a lot more to say, but not enough time to say it.

[SoulReaver]

Your schoolteachers do not claim divinity and omniscience.

you don't know some of my kindergarten teachers :/

It is also their role to educate with understanding, not tell you to do it or suffer for reasons you will never comprehend.

yeah but it'd be so cool if they educated us but spared us the exams :'(

ps. you're one lucky bloke if you've never been punished (that, or you were a...model pupil)

[P-90_177]

Near as I can figure from Genesis Adam and Eve were merely blind followers who were given everything they wanted and had no reason to advance, learn or grow as a species...... Personally I'm all for saying the serpent did us a favour.