The Political Discussion Thread

[SoulReaver]

They kill themselves off.

correct

so if you understand this then why criticize those who talk of world overpopulation?
blatant contradiction right there

[SoulReaver]

hoho I like this one:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-being-8765373

I say she should be encouraged to go - just to see what her role in the ISIS ranks will be (I suspect it won't be as a strategic advisor)

[SGalisa]

Update News regarding -- USA COAL Mines being shut down.

Since the article at the dailycaller(dot)com link had an endless list of other articles attached-- here's the basics--
"Obama Kept His Promise, 83,000 Coal Jobs Lost And 400 Mines Shuttered"
by Andrew Follett
Energy and Environmental Reporter
12:00 PM, 09/05/2016...
-------------

Two more months to go with President Obama in charge, authorizing and signing amendments, rules and regs.
Coal mines have been officially shut down (today's news).

According to the dailycaller(dot)com/2016/09/05
(obama-kept-his-promise-83000-coal-jobs-lost-and-400-mines-shuttered)
approximately 83,000 jobs and 400 mines are closed, due to EPA regulations and Obama's promise from 2008 that he would shut them all down, if possible, or charge such an outrageously high amount of fees that it would probably be impossible for the mines to stay open. Since this is the first article with a detailed report, I haven't seen other news agencies reporting about this yet. Most news was iffy and from a few days ago. This report is brandy-new-NEW.. and apparently, Obama's *special* Labor Day gift to the environment, and definitely *not* to the now displaced workers.

Yeah.. somehow, I keep hearing that sort of mantra from my hubby. "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year -- you guys (dedicated workers) get shafted.. No income raises and a change in work schedule, which you will either adhere to, or find the door to your way out... oh, and Happy Birthday and all of those other popular holidays, too!"


So, for all of those coal energy burning plants -- where are the people going to get their energy from now? Illinois, Pennsylvania, central NJ, WV..just to name a few. These next two months should be very interesting, if our regions survive that long in the interim, especially without any rioting of any degree from the energy consumers.

The folks who kept warning about this, said it was NOT going to have a good outcome.. but did the people listen? No. Now, the **it has hit the fan, with the door smacking everyone in their #$$!.

This is NOT good news, nor does it seem it will end very well.

According to other various reports from past news, the coal unions supported Obama -- this is his *gift* in return to them. Happy Labor Day. Big whoop..

"15 tons, what'do yah get? Another day older and deeper in debt..!"

Oh yeah, there'll probably be alot of miners singing to that tune for a while. Not to also mention the customers who use the coal for various purposes, especially to HEAT their homes.. from the energy suppliers converting the coal..! Winter is only a few months away in some USA spots using this stuff..!

Shutting down the coal mines will also, btw, affect the *vintage* tourist coal train-ride industries, as well. This has been discussed to the nth degree by railroad engineers who actually work with REAL coal in their trains. *sigh* Well, for the visiting customers / consumers -- No more soot on the seats, or cinders sailing thru the open windows during summer from the moving locomotive's (active) live smoke stack, at least. That's probably the only positive plus factor there! The glamour of the past will soon just be a memory. Next, TPTB will regulate the fake smoke coming out of the smoke stack. . .

[Gatefan1976]

Not just food waste, but food consumption. As a nation, we have one of the larger obese/heavy set ratios of any developed nation around..

Eh, I don't think you will ever fix that in the "west", we are far too used to our conveniences.

And has trump worked around classified data for a decade or so?? No, but Hillary has.. So she SHOULD bloody well know what it means.

He thinks C means "Coloured".................

On another note, if you think someone can run a business and not know what should be "classified" in business terms means, you are just giving him a pass for no reason. Business secrets are often more heavily guarded than political ones.

[quote]
SG, does seem to be a bit verbose, doesn't he.. BUT i wonder how he compares to Gatefan or Artood in that regard.
[quote]
SG is a she, and I don't tell stories.
Also, I doubt people would want me to be........... Short and sweet in my responses, I tend to call people Idiots.

Same here. I can't stand animal testings for lipstick or other cosmetics.. But have no issue with it for testing of actual pharma stuff..

I have an issue, but that issue is tempered by the value of that testing.

Na, the Zombie virus will take over before all of those kill us..

But you have no brains

Into Europe maybe.. BUT here in the US, Obama has brought in 10k of them, and Hillary plans on making that 100k if she gets in..

They want to -allow- them in, not INVITE them...........

BUT note, we always hear of what #s have fled to this or that EU nation, but not how many got taken in by Russia, or any of their fellow Islamic nations (Saudi, oman, UAE etc)..

Now THAT is a very good point. The local area should, as much as possible absorb the displaced people, but they refuse, which makes the whole issue a mess.
Do you deny those who need help (honestly need it) to make a point to those nations?

I prefer going More clothes, then Fire, THEN heating via furnace.. Always love a natural wood fire heating up the place.

I prefer less clothes, fire, and heating via furnace, but that's just me

[thekillman]

Or because half of them don't make it past year 5.

Hence the "i need 9 kids to support me in my old age". Except that with modern hygiene, medicine and understanding it shouldn't be all that difficult to make sure they do live past 5 in those regions.

In fact, humanity is multiplicating so fast *because* they still believe such things, even though mortality rates have gone down. So in stead of 2 kids surviving, 8 do.

\
Into Europe maybe.. BUT here in the US, Obama has brought in 10k of them, and Hillary plans on making that 100k if she gets in..

You have stuff like the NSA. Yet the government admits it can't even track a bunch of people they bring in themselves and keep an eye on them? And that's supposed to stop terrorism?

BUT note, we always hear of what #s have fled to this or that EU nation, but not how many got taken in by Russia, or any of their fellow Islamic nations (Saudi, oman, UAE etc)..

People always ***** about the EU not taking in enough but you never hear them about Saudi not taking in any, despite being a rich nation.

So why would Catholic condemnation be so effective in African nations than in Latin nations when the latter is more Catholic than the former?

Education.

I do believe that people oversimplify what's going on when they start talking about overpopulation. Not every country is India and the massive growth of the human population has little to do with the western world, I mean in actual births not causes and such.

That depends. As it stands, countries like India and China are growing much harder (especially in absolute numbers) than western nations are shrinking.

[Falcon Horus]

And has trump worked around classified data for a decade or so?? No, but Hillary has.. So she SHOULD bloody well know what it means.

Did you know that in business there are also classified documents?
If Trump is unaware the C stands for confidential than I wonder how he marked his confidential business documents. Or he's probably the worst businessman ever, who happens have an extraordinary legal team. Then again, he's quite versed in bribing Attorney Generals, I heard.

Na, the Zombie virus will take over before all of those kill us..

We're doomed.

BUT note, we always hear of what #s have fled to this or that EU nation, but not how many got taken in by Russia, or any of their fellow Islamic nations (Saudi, oman, UAE etc)..

Russia: apparently has unwritten rules which prevent refugees from gaining asylum

And here's a good source for the refugee-amounts in the other countries you state:
Western Media’s Miscount of Saudi Arabia’s Syrian Refugees

...a look at Saudi Arabia’s UNHCR page has a few curious footnotes that Western publications are conveniently omitting. The UNHCR counts refugees by noting only those “persons recognized as refugees under the 1951 UN Convention/1967 Protocol, the 1969 OAU Convention, in accordance with the UNHCR Statute, persons granted a complementary form of protection and those granted temporary protection.“ Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and the UAE are not parties to any of the UN protocols on refugees, and so through this technicality, they, along with most of their refugees, are excluded from many refugee counting mechanisms.

[...]

With Saudi Arabia’s non-signatory status, the Syrians residing in Saudi Arabia are classified as “Arab brothers and sisters in distress” instead of refugees covered by UN treaties. According to Nabil Othman, the UNHCR regional representative to the Gulf region, there were 500,000 Syrian refugees in Saudi Arabia at the time of his statement. The government itself of Saudi Arabia has stated that it has, over the past five years since the start of the conflict hosted 2.5 million refugees.

..I'm sure FH wouldn't mind finding you some resources, she seems to be into doing that.

I am indeed. Always happy to provide.

People who look at the "exponential" growth of the human population (usually in one neat graph) fail to take into account changes in modern birth rates, they are falling. The UN does give a range for Earth's population for the end of the century. It's 7-17 Billion. I don't know what they think regarding the 7 Billion figure, but I can see it leveling off at periods due to birthrates so it won't continue the "exponational" growth we've all seen coming from doomsday sayers.

Population doesn't grow exponentially -- last I checked we're not bacteria.

hoho I like this one:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-being-8765373

I say she should be encouraged to go - just to see what her role in the ISIS ranks will be (I suspect it won't be as a strategic advisor)

Putting the dumb in stupid.

Update News regarding -- USA COAL Mines being shut down.

Mining is the first step in the dirty life cycle of coal. When coal mines move in, whole communities are forced off their land by expanding mines, coal fires, subsidence, and overused and contaminated water supplies. Mines are quick to dig up and destroy forests and soils. But once the coal is gone, the problems they leave behind, like acid mine drainage, can persist for decades.

Or...

...from the Paris Climate Agreement, which China and the US signed:

In order for the Paris Agreement to keep the warming of the world below the 1.5 degree Celsius target governments must commit to reducing CO2 emissions “in accordance with best available science.” They must commit to halt the burning of fossil fuels, which have already formed a toxic “blanket” around the earth - they must “leave it in the ground.” On April 22nd, at the signing ceremony, more than 170 countries vowed to put an end to the age of fossil fuels. These are fine words; but they will remain only words if countries don’t commit to eradicating fossil fuels from our energy systems. They must embark upon a renewable energy revolution now.

On another note, if you think someone can run a business and not know what should be "classified" in business terms means, you are just giving him a pass for no reason. Business secrets are often more heavily guarded than political ones.

This.

I prefer less clothes, fire, and heating via furnace, but that's just me

And here I thought, Mrs. Gatefan would be included there too somewhere.

People always ***** about the EU not taking in enough but you never hear them about Saudi not taking in any, despite being a rich nation.

See my reply to garhkal.

[thekillman]

Population doesn't grow exponentially -- last I checked we're not bacteria.

We do grow exponentially. That doesn't mean it's a quadratic equation (e.g. bacteria). Even the decline spoken of is exponential.

[Annoyed]

I doubt that. Or at least show us things we can read that come from these mythical scientists that don't believe in climate change caused by people (or aided by people). Where are their plethora of articles that get published? Where is this army of scientists?

Ok, first, another nail in the coffin of the credibility of these folks.

It seems that rather inconveniently, its seems that "global warming" ceased for 15 years or so; rather unpleasant data for the enviros and their agenda. This is apparently behind the change in the public discussion to call it "climate change", rather than global warming. So what's an enviro to do when the data doesn't support his agenda?

Simple. Have NOAA cook the books in order to support the agenda.
NOAA Fiddles With Climate Data To Erase The 15-Year Global Warming ‘Hiatus’

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration scientists have found a solution to the 15-year “pause” in global warming: They “adjusted” the hiatus in warming out of the temperature record.

New climate data by NOAA scientists doubles the warming trend since the late 1990s by adjusting pre-hiatus temperatures downward and inflating temperatures in more recent years.

Estimated 40 Percent of Scientists Doubt Manmade Global Warming

Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming Crisis

New Study: Majority of Climate Scientists Don’t Agree with ‘Consensus’


I could find more articles and such, heck one of the best known meteorologists locally is a very outspoken denier, But it's clear to me that their theories aren't universal.

As I said above, the scientists and the activists are two different groups of people. As for how do we know...I mean...I know certain individuals here like to act like you're just an angry ignorant old fool, but I do ask this question in earnest. Do you know how science works? You don't need to have everything done in a laboratory like medical science. Geology doesn't take place in a lab outside of examining specific samples for radioactive decay. Meteorology doesn't get labs at all. And so on. Honestly, you can probably answer these questions by doing some research online. I'm sure FH wouldn't mind finding you some resources, she seems to be into doing that.

I know enough about science to know that you don't "adjust" the data to get the conclusion you want, such as NOAA did.
Another little tidbit I've picked up along the way is that in order to prove a theory, it must be able to be repeatedly tested by anyone who wishes to do so, with the exact same result. Since there is no way to actually test their theories, they must remain that, theories.

Science requires accurate data. As I understand it, one of the claims is that Earth his warmed 1.7 degrees in the past couple of hundred years. How do they know? The thermometer was invented roughly 500 years ago. Prior to that, the best we could do is estimate. And I rather doubt that early thermometers were all that accurate; 1.7 degrees was likely well within the margin of error.
Yes, I know, we can estimate temperatures at various points in history via geological evidence, but that is just an estimate, that's all. And they're claiming accuracy to 1.7 degrees? Sorry, I ain't buying.

And finally, legitimate science doesn't threaten to use criminal prosecution to silence the opposition. IT demonstrates its facts via experiments repeatable by anyone.

[Coco Pops]

We do grow exponentially. That doesn't mean it's a quadratic equation (e.g. bacteria). Even the decline spoken of is exponential.

The way human populations grow and spread could very well be compared to a virus.

[Falcon Horus]

We do grow exponentially. That doesn't mean it's a quadratic equation (e.g. bacteria). Even the decline spoken of is exponential.

Earth's a petrie dish after all.

Science requires accurate data. As I understand it, one of the claims is that Earth his warmed 1.7 degrees in the past couple of hundred years. How do they know? The thermometer was invented roughly 500 years ago. Prior to that, the best we could do is estimate. And I rather doubt that early thermometers were all that accurate; 1.7 degrees was likely well within the margin of error.

I'll give you a hint: ice cores.

Have fun!

The way human populations grow and spread could very well be compared to a virus.

Damnit, you said it.

[SoulReaver]

Putting the dumb in stupid.

she'll understand this on her first night there when she feels like she's being run over by a train

[Annoyed]

I'll give you a hint: ice cores.

Have fun!

I'll give you one word. Accuracy.

Ice Cores May Not Be Accurate Thermometers

It's an estimate. Not a measurement. And are these estimates accurate enough to accurately read a change as small as 1.7 degrees? I think not.
From the article:

“You can say at the end of the Younger Dryas it warmed 10, plus or minus five, degrees Celsius. But what happened on this pathway into the event, you can’t see,” Carlson says.

The estimate is 10, plus or minus 5 ? I can probably do better on a dartboard.

At the end of the day, what we can see of conditions even hundreds, let alone thousands of years ago are ESTIMATES. unless someone goes back in time, with a modern, accurate device to measure temperature, that's all we can ever have.

[Womble]

Someone has it right.

[Womble]

ISIS bans burka in Mosul after commanders killed by women.

[Annoyed]

Someone has it right.

None of the above isn't a choice on the ballot.

But we might see a very low turnout this year in response. Neither side has put forth a good choice.