The Political Discussion Thread

[SoulReaver]

I understand, and in fact agree with the idea of the US being the leader of the Free world

the US would have to be a free country to start with

[Falcon Horus]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41866[/ATTACH]

Somebody needs to change the Wanna build a snowman? song of Frozen to fit with Trump's wall.

[Gatefan1976]

Somebody needs to change the Wanna build a snowman? song of Frozen to fit with Trump's wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVN17U3Vg34

[Annoyed]

Trump doesn't have the first clue about politics. He's not fit to be a representative of any country.

He is a global disaster in the making.

Just as a different way to look at it, this country has been on a downslide for decades now. Maybe we need someone who isn't a politician. You can't claim that they've been doing all that good a job.

[Coco Pops]

Trump doesn't have the first clue about politics. He's not fit to be a representative of any country.

He is a global disaster in the making.

I have no idea how people seem to think he will be a good President. He's first off a narcissist. He does not handle criticism well. He's also a loudmouth who talks first then thinks, oh hang on he doesn't even do that very well.

[SGalisa]

How is it that you folks who do NOT live in the USA think/claim to know *more* about our tax system and our gov't, etc., more than us who live here? Where is your info coming from? Uncle Sam or nonUSA source? Just curious..

Sorry, but SG does not know how tax works, she has admitted that herself, so forgive me for not putting much stock in what she writes about it. I'm not saying that to be mean to SG, but she said it herself, as did G-man.

Did I..? If your reference was in ref to the property Tax issue, that is only ONE TAX on our USA TAX system. It isNOT the whole TAX system.

Please see my reply to garhkal below..there is an additional item I forgot to mention.

Same here. I often thought property taxes were based on the VALUE of the home (and land its on), not just based on that + all sorts of 'vote for Prop 111342131135234969346' that often seems hidden near the end of all november ballots..

Sometimes we get those hidden prop#'s at multiple other elections being held thruout the year, not just in the November elections.


The other thing I forgot to mention about property taxes was that I knew there was some monies that got directed over to the municipal building for police, fire, and EMS, but what I didn't know was that the property taxes also supported the various school or educational systems -- whether or not (generic) you had children yet. Non-married individuals with NO children pay property taxes as rental tenants or home-owners, regardless of their marital and dependent(s) status.

While I was growing up and actually attending school, I knew private schools were not funded by the State, but supported by the family sending their child there. This is money PAID out in addition to a family's regular *Property Tax* and has its own set of taxes attached.

One of my sisters went to private school, but my parents pulled her out before her senior year.. so of course I didn't know her attending a public school still wasn't free, even tho I thought it was at the time. Neither were the school buses FREE. Obviously, Someone had to be paying for it somewhere.. I just didn't know where or when. It didn't help that a blanket answer of "Uncle Sam" (nickname of our USA gov't) is paying for the school (books, supplies, etc.) and school bus transportation. Anything above and beyond that (lunches and class trips to museums, etc.) is extra that mom and dad have to pay upon request.

Once I learned about the school taxes being embedded into the overall *Property Taxes*, I felt like I was giving to a charity I had nothing to do with. It's different when you buy Lottery tickets and find out that a certain percentage goes to the education system, because you paid for that ticket. So, even if you lost on gaining any Lottery winnings, you do feel that your ticket wasn't a complete loss because the educational system is benefitting from that payment method.

Yes, I got that, but you said you "accidently voted Dem", which means you must have agreed with what the Dem's were saying, right?
If you knew who proposed it, and what party they were from, how can you "accidently" vote for them???

The pencil slipped?
Didn't read the assignment all the way to the end?

..Sounds more like something got lost in translation somewhere..
Answer is=No. you're both wrong again. For one thing, our ballots had the "hole puncher" method in those years. No slippage--just poke all the way in. Now, the ballots are electronic.

Also, the proposed questions were Generic in requiring a YES or NO response. The same question appeared word for word on both Republican AND Democratic ballots -- it was not listed under one political party or the other, because it was addressed to BOTH parties (equally, if that helps describe this), and printed identically on each ballot. It was listed as a general question and addressed to everyone voting, regardless of their political preference(s).

In most of the vote tallies, it was usually the Dems who voted YES to anything noting "Green" initiatives, or support this/that for improvement at this/that *thing*. Most Dems didn't seem to care if extra money came out of their paychecks, until AFTER they voted YES on something and --unless they could afford to depart from any extra cash, AND then if it really bothered them-- then the lightbulb went on with them complaining about having more money added into their taxes! Reps usually voted NO if it meant taking MORE Tax money out of their paychecks.

As a young college student, I didn't know my reaction was the same as most DEMs if voting "YES" to a certain proposed project, just because it sounded like a good idea.. duh! me along with a bunch of other dummy Dems. Reps were often wiser in those "proposed" ideas with extra monies being taken out of you (PAID via your Property Tax, or some other *named* tax listed on the IRS form).

That is why I never knew which political side represented a YES or NO vote on the various agendas being proposed ---- These are NOT a one side or another political idea, except for the political preference of the person(s) suggesting to propose it. Also, another tidbit, if you're going to vote as an ignoramus, you really have NO excuse if the outcome ends up being different than you expected.

[Gatefan1976]

How is it that you folks who do NOT live in the USA think/claim to know *more* about our tax system and our gov't, etc., more than us who live here? Where is your info coming from? Uncle Sam or nonUSA source? Just curious..

You know that thing we are using to communicate on?
It can do a lot.
Did you also know that most countries tax systems are very similar in basic format?
Oh, and I was wondering when the "what would a non American know?" argument come up, it's almost as inevitable as the Godwin argument.

Did I..? If your reference was in ref to the property Tax issue, that is only ONE TAX on our USA TAX system. It isNOT the whole TAX system.

Quite right, it isn't your whole system, but Income Tax, Sales tax, Corporate tax and Property tax are the cornerstone elements of the vast majority of Tax codes worldwide............

Please see my reply to garhkal below..there is an additional item I forgot to mention.




Sometimes we get those hidden prop#'s at multiple other elections being held thruout the year, not just in the November elections.

That's not a function of you tax system, it's a function of your political system.

The other thing I forgot to mention about property taxes was that I knew there was some monies that got directed over to the municipal building for police, fire, and EMS, but what I didn't know was that the property taxes also supported the various school or educational systems -- whether or not (generic) you had children yet. Non-married individuals with NO children pay property taxes as rental tenants or home-owners, regardless of their marital and dependent(s) status.

While I was growing up and actually attending school, I knew private schools were not funded by the State, but supported by the family sending their child there. This is money PAID out in addition to a family's regular *Property Tax* and has its own set of taxes attached.

One of my sisters went to private school, but my parents pulled her out before her senior year.. so of course I didn't know her attending a public school still wasn't free, even tho I thought it was at the time. Neither were the school buses FREE. Obviously, Someone had to be paying for it somewhere.. I just didn't know where or when. It didn't help that a blanket answer of "Uncle Sam" (nickname of our USA gov't) is paying for the school (books, supplies, etc.) and school bus transportation. Anything above and beyond that (lunches and class trips to museums, etc.) is extra that mom and dad have to pay upon request.

Sigh

Once I learned about the school taxes being embedded into the overall *Property Taxes*, I felt like I was giving to a charity I had nothing to do with. It's different when you buy Lottery tickets and find out that a certain percentage goes to the education system, because you paid for that ticket. So, even if you lost on gaining any Lottery winnings, you do feel that your ticket wasn't a complete loss because the educational system is benefitting from that payment method.

Giving to a Charity you had nothing to do with via taxation?
You are about to dive into an area you may not wish you want to.

..Sounds more like something got lost in translation somewhere..
Answer is=No. you're both wrong again. For one thing, our ballots had the "hole puncher" method in those years. No slippage--just poke all the way in. Now, the ballots are electronic.

FH and I were both being sarcastic?

Also, the proposed questions were Generic in requiring a YES or NO response. The same question appeared word for word on both Republican AND Democratic ballots -- it was not listed under one political party or the other, because it was addressed to BOTH parties (equally, if that helps describe this), and printed identically on each ballot. It was listed as a general question and addressed to everyone voting, regardless of their political preference(s).

In other words, it was a generic ballot, sure.

In most of the vote tallies, it was usually the Dems who voted YES to anything noting "Green" initiatives, or support this/that for improvement at this/that *thing*. Most Dems didn't seem to care if extra money came out of their paychecks, until AFTER they voted YES on something and --unless they could afford to depart from any extra cash, AND then if it really bothered them-- then the lightbulb went on with them complaining about having more money added into their taxes! Reps usually voted NO if it meant taking MORE Tax money out of their paychecks.

I am sure there is a moral in that story, I think you find it in a moment...........

As a young college student, I didn't know my reaction was the same as most DEMs if voting "YES" to a certain proposed project, just because it sounded like a good idea.. duh! me along with a bunch of other dummy Dems. Reps were often wiser in those "proposed" ideas with extra monies being taken out of you (PAID via your Property Tax, or some other *named* tax listed on the IRS form).

Ahhh, there it is.

That is why I never knew which political side represented a YES or NO vote on the various agendas being proposed ---- These are NOT a one side or another political idea, except for the political preference of the person(s) suggesting to propose it.

Yep.

Also, another tidbit, if you're going to vote as an ignoramus, you really have NO excuse if the outcome ends up being different than you expected.

Yep.

[Gatefan1976]

Just as a different way to look at it, this country has been on a downslide for decades now. Maybe we need someone who isn't a politician. You can't claim that they've been doing all that good a job.

By what measure has the US been on a downslide?

[Gatefan1976]

I have no idea how people seem to think he will be a good President. He's first off a narcissist. He does not handle criticism well. He's also a loudmouth who talks first then thinks, oh hang on he doesn't even do that very well.

Because America sucks, and he can fix it.
Trump the builder can we fix it?
Trump the builder Yes we Can!!

(It works for Trump, and his most ardent followers)

[Falcon Horus]

How is it that you folks who do NOT live in the USA think/claim to know *more* about our tax system and our gov't, etc., more than us who live here? Where is your info coming from? Uncle Sam or nonUSA source? Just curious..

We have this thing called the world wide web. It's pretty fascinating.
You can find just about anything on it and it's accessible from just about anywhere where there's a connection. I mean, the middle of the jungle or the dessert might pose a problem but Belgium has neither of those things so I guess you could say we're lucky in that regard. We can connect everywhere.

So, we absorb all this fascinating knowledge. Okay, so there are distractions as well, that teach you little to nothing except that cats do the darndest things in their lifetimes. And cute baby animals can make you loose track of precious study time too but we can't help ourselves. Occassionally the mind wanders off...

Anyhow, if you want to learn more about your own taxation system I did a quick (seriously quick) google search and here are the result if you'd like to know about it:

US Taxation --> notice the .edu in the weblink:

The domain name edu is a sponsored top-level domain (sTLD) in the Domain Name System of the Internet. Since 2001, new registrants to the domain have been required to be United States-affiliated institutions of higher education[...]

Tax Policy Center Briefing Book --> requires a bit of reading but everything you ever wanted to know about your tax policies, including how it compares to other countries. Fascinating!

And of course, let's not forget about magazines like Forbes:

The US Tax System Just Keeps On Getting More And More Progressive

[Gatefan1976]

My sarcasm needle just broke...........

[Annoyed]

By what measure has the US been on a downslide?

Living standard of the average worker.
In the 50-60's, a man (or woman, but wasn't common at the time) who was willing to work could easily earn enough to provide a comfortable middle class living for themselves and their family. This allowed the other spouse to stay home and focus on raising the children and tending the home.

Nowdays, that same couple has to work 2 jobs, due to the decline in incomes, which is in large part due to outsourcing of jobs thanks to free trade. This requires the couple to outsource child care to low paid day care worker or whoever they can get to watch them. Oh, coincidentally, have you noticed how many of today's youngsters are growing up wild, without proper parantage? There are alot of other effects of this switch to requiring two incomes, but that is the most important.

Our international status has certainly declined. At its peak, the US was the world leader in technology, economic might and numerous other areas. Look at the Apollo space program of the 60's. We have certainly fallen a great deal from those heights.

I can go on, but I don't have all day to list the various ways we have been going down hill since we peaked.

[thekillman]

By what measure has the US been on a downslide?

America's high of the past century is largely a lack of high from literally every other nation.

[Gatefan1976]

America's high of the past century is largely a lack of high from literally every other nation.

Well, you can't discount the fact that barring Pearl Harbour, the US was never invaded, which certainly put them in a better position than darn near all the rest of the world. It also entered WW2 at a later stage and threw -a lot- into manufacturing post Pearl Harbour, and that certainly helped them as it was mechanical engineering that was the basis of manufacturing, unlike today where it is a far more technical based engineering that fuels the economy.

Would the US people be happy to have another World War and a pretty harsh population loss to put it into a similar position it was in the 50's-60's?
I'd like to think not.

[Annoyed]

But what about just getting the manufacturing brought back into the US, rather than encouraging companies to outsource it as our free trade deals do?
We consume an awful lot in this country. We would be doing far better off if we made more of it ourselves.

We don't need a war to do that.