The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

As long as Reagan gave them amnesty? But...Reagan was the one asking for amnesty. He said as much on the campaign trials and in the debates he had for his nomination. The democrats didn't have to offer anything. The problem here is that amnesty was never ever meant to solve illegal immigration or to stop it. It was meant to solve what Reagan saw as a human problem. He would say things like "I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally" and " Illegal immigrants in considerable numbers have become productive members of our society and are a basic part of our work force. Those who have established equities in the United States should be recognized and accorded legal status. At the same time, in so doing, we must not encourage illegal immigration. "

The latter quote was in his speech where he included his desire for amnesty.

His solution for illegal immigration was strict border security measures. Amnesty was just a humanitarian issue for him. Along those lines, he would have never supported mass deportations. Both his sons (the conservative strategist too) have stated as much...and who else would know him more? Oh, and he was a fan of free trade. Do you know what he called protectionism? He called it "destructionism".

That isn't how I seem to remember Amnesty in 1986.

I don't have time right now to dig up articles, but the idea was to allow the millions already here at the time to stay, and to take steps to prevent further illegal immigration, such as additional paperwork required to get a job. At least a legal one.
And the border was supposed to be locked down as well. As garhkal has pointed out, we never did get the increased security at the border.

As far as illegals "being a basic part our workforce", yes, they have. They have become the part that undercuts our own citizens in the labor market. Not something we really need.

[Gatefan1976]

That isn't how I seem to remember Amnesty in 1986.

You remember wrong.

I don't have time right now to dig up articles, but the idea was to allow the millions already here at the time to stay, and to take steps to prevent further illegal immigration, such as additional paperwork required to get a job. At least a legal one.
And the border was supposed to be locked down as well. As garhkal has pointed out, we never did get the increased security at the border.

That was not a "democrat thing", so just stop.

As far as illegals "being a basic part our workforce", yes, they have. They have become the part that undercuts our own citizens in the labor market. Not something we really need.

How do they undercut them?
Getting paid less?
Doing more work, for less, what bastards!!

[Falcon Horus]

I don't know why everyone is making a big deal with the DNC. We already know they do it. Its just now someone admitted it

Pretty much the same as the Republicans undermining each other. I don't see the big deal either.
There's no clean house in either party.

From the Heritage foundation, the right wing think tank, back in 2008.
http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...-protectionism

Take note:

A creative, competitive America is the answer to a changing world, not trade wars that would close doors, create greater barriers, and destroy millions of jobs. We should always remember: Protectionism is destructionism.

Maybe we need Cylons in government.

Who says they aren't already infiltrated.

As far as illegals "being a basic part our workforce", yes, they have. They have become the part that undercuts our own citizens in the labor market. Not something we really need.

Except the jobs the illegals do, nobody of the local force would want to do -- not for the wages or the labor.

[Falcon Horus]

Lost a quoted post apparently in my previous posting...

From what little i have heard on that, since he already has had several felony convictions against him, how in gods green earth can he be running for office??

Apparently being a felon isn't an obstacle in Louisiana:

What it takes to qualify to run for the U.S. Senate in Louisiana is a $600 qualifying fee or a petition with the signatures of 5,000 eligible state voters, not fewer than 500 from each of Louisiana's six congressional districts. For another $300 you can add a party label -- Duke is running as a Republican -- whether the party likes it or not.

Source: David Duke is running for the U.S. Senate in Louisiana. So what?

[Nirude]

I don't necessarily presume that Japan looks like Europe or the USA. But it certainly is a good look at the future of both given the right conditions.

Japan a good look at the future of both Europe/USA? They can only dream. On the current course Europe/US will be like Brazil where they can't even put olympic athletes in suitable accommodation, you're acting as if Japan is some sort of dystopia. It's the best country I've ever been to.. again, great culture and great people and little crime - you can't fake that. Just because you found some birthrate/immigration statistics in the leftist economist daily you think the society is falling apart - complete nonsense.

As for Xenophobia and racism...ever heard of the Imperial Japan? Those things don't just go away and disappear so easily.

Yes, considering I speak and read Japanese. And who said they disappeared? They still run the country, but the views of those elite are not the views of the populace. The elite will however shape things just as they do in the West.

[SoulReaver]

as if Japan is some sort of dystopia. It's the best country I've ever been to.. again, great culture and great people and little crime

and a ~100% conviction rate

[Falcon Horus]

And a whole lot of radiation to deal with - Fukushima anyone.

And makor earthquakes, levelling their cities on occasion, and tsunamis. Darn that faultline running around there.

[Falcon Horus]

Trump-Lovers and Trump-Haters

Please gather 'round!

A final response to the "Tell me why Trump is a fascist".

Enjoy!

[mad_gater]

Pretty much the same as the Republicans undermining each other. I don't see the big deal either.
There's no clean house in either party.



Take note:

A creative, competitive America is the answer to a changing world, not trade wars that would close doors, create greater barriers, and destroy millions of jobs. We should always remember: Protectionism is destructionism.



Who says they aren't already infiltrated.



Except the jobs the illegals do, nobody of the local force would want to do -- not for the wages or the labor.

Oh don't give me that BS! Myself and many others would gladly work a farm job shoveling cow **** for 16 hours a day if it meant our families had a roof over their heads and food to eat. Heck I'd probably enjoy that job more than what I currently do, which is make subs for rude customers all day long at Subway

Annoyed is right. The illegals do undercut our labor force because these farms and other places that hire them see no problem with paying them pennies on the dollar...under the table of course. And the money usually just winds up being sent back to their home country to benefit that country's economy, not ours.

Perhaps some heavy punishments (like heavy fines and possibly jail time) for the owners of companies that hire illegals might make the owners of these companies think twice about hiring people who aren't in this country legally....along with perhaps requiring every employer in the country to use E-Verify to screen new applicants.

[SoulReaver]

Trump-Lovers and Trump-Haters

Please gather 'round!

A final response to the "Tell me why Trump is a fascist".

Enjoy!

and some of these points should convince americans themselves that Trump doesn't give a **** about (the majority of) them

[aretood2]

That isn't how I seem to remember Amnesty in 1986.

I don't have time right now to dig up articles, but the idea was to allow the millions already here at the time to stay, and to take steps to prevent further illegal immigration, such as additional paperwork required to get a job. At least a legal one.
And the border was supposed to be locked down as well. As garhkal has pointed out, we never did get the increased security at the border.

As far as illegals "being a basic part our workforce", yes, they have. They have become the part that undercuts our own citizens in the labor market. Not something we really need.

Did you read his quote I mentioned? You cold also search youtube for his debates in 1980 with George Bush Sr. Both of the talking up amnesty, niether posited it as a solution to an immigration problem. It was a solution to a human problem. They, unlike some these days, were not sociopaths. They believed that sometimes you have to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. That was the American spirit that Reagan ran on. He too said "make America great again" but the way he framed it is radically different than Trumps. Reagan was very inclusive. In his RNC acceptance speech in 1980 he even mentioned the minorities and how he wanted to help them out of poverty that the democrats caused His speech was one of unity, not just Republican, but American.

I don't know where you remember your Reagan from. But he's one of my favorite presidents and the Reagan you talk about is nothing like the one I have read about, or the one my parents knew. The one that they immigrated here under and found a much better life in a very welcoming nation. That's the greatness of America. That's what made America exceptional. And even more, he wanted to export that to others by helping others outside of the US. Now it's left to vultures to pick off its dead carcass in the name of some sort of sociopathic philosophy supposedly based on "the rule of law".


Why don't you go back and listen to Reagan talking about American exceptionalism and compare that to Trump. Or just look at his speeches. Reagan had words, but he let those words show that. All Trump has is claims of having words, the best words. The difference is simple. Reagan had heart, Trump has anger.

Pretty much the same as the Republicans undermining each other. I don't see the big deal either.
There's no clean house in either party.



Take note:

A creative, competitive America is the answer to a changing world, not trade wars that would close doors, create greater barriers, and destroy millions of jobs. We should always remember: Protectionism is destructionism.

Gee...I wonder who they got that idea from? *Cough*Reagan*Cough* Reagan added how protectionism would save manufacturing jobs, but would cost jobs in the commercial sector as imports diminished and variety diminished and consumers had to pay higher prices thust spend less thus buy less from both domestic and foreign producers thus stores would stock less...he described a snowball effect.

Now watch people call Reagan a fear mongering lefty...

Japan a good look at the future of both Europe/USA? They can only dream. On the current course Europe/US will be like Brazil where they can't even put olympic athletes in suitable accommodation, you're acting as if Japan is some sort of dystopia. It's the best country I've ever been to.. again, great culture and great people and little crime - you can't fake that. Just because you found some birthrate/immigration statistics in the leftist economist daily you think the society is falling apart - complete nonsense.

If you're talking about socialism...Russia and China seem to be able to do it. Of course the problems are different. But you're the one advocating population control. That's not Brazil, that's China. Japan is going through some very real problems. The problem of young men that I alluded to, very real and disconcerting for a country with abysmal birth rates.

Young women, as a result to don't want to marry much less have kids. High suicide rates within the population at large. High levels of materialism. Just look into Hikikomori, Japanese recession, job shortages in some industries and labor shortages in other industries. And Extreme sexism levels that are shocking for a first world nation.

Don't get me wrong, just because Japan has its issues I am not saying it is a "dystopia" but it isn't a booming vibrant society on the rise either. Part of it is due to their success as a people. And I am not taking hits at their culture.

Yes, considering I speak and read Japanese. And who said they disappeared? They still run the country, but the views of those elite are not the views of the populace. The elite will however shape things just as they do in the West.

The people are a bit more liberal and open minded than their elite. However, don't ask them about apologizing to China for the rape of Nanking, among others. They are a great people and I do admire them for a lot. But they are far far from perfect and without problems. Some of which I am sure Soul wouldn't mind pointing out...such as their impossibly high conviction rates...

[thekillman]

Trump-Lovers and Trump-Haters

Please gather 'round!

A final response to the "Tell me why Trump is a fascist".

Enjoy!

holt **** that list is long

[aretood2]

Trump-Lovers and Trump-Haters

Please gather 'round!

A final response to the "Tell me why Trump is a fascist".

Enjoy!

I wonder if certain posters here will read through that and visit some of those links or just assume them to be "lefty" propaganda and move on.

[Nirude]

But you're the one advocating population control.

Nope, just immigration control.

Young women, as a result to don't want to marry much less have kids. High suicide rates within the population at large. High levels of materialism. Just look into Hikikomori, Japanese recession, job shortages in some industries and labor shortages in other industries. And Extreme sexism levels that are shocking for a first world nation.

It's quite common in first world countries for native women to have a low birthrate - even more so in Japan as they rarely have kids outside of marriage. But that's not an excuse to import untold amounts of unknown foreign people though.

Yeah and I think that last sexism study (by the UN I think?) said something like it's better to be a woman in Saudi Arabia or some place instead of South Korea - its a complete fraud. I know where I want my kids that's for sure! The birthrate and sexism issues brought up in the foreign press are ultimately part of the globalist agenda to make countries more liberal and undermine national sovereignty - don't believe everything you read. Do you really think you can define sexism with some number using a formula chosen by the very people working for globalists? Also just saying "equal rights" doesn't necessarily mean that's what you get, I think even womble would agree with me on that Just like how the democrats are hardly democrats after I saw those leaked emails.. People do nasty things in the name of good.

It's not a coincidence Japan's birthrate started dropping as soon as they started working more closely with the Americans - starting with the Japanese constitution written by foreigners like Beate Sirota Gordon (women's rights advocate thought to actually be a communist). These values were foreign to the Japanese people and have ultimately harmed their spirit - which is why they're now planning to rewrite chunks of it to focus it more on the Japanese people. Good for them, if successful, with their national spirit regained, I predict the birthrate will actually go up in the future.

I'm not saying low birthrate isn't a bad thing, I'm just saying there are other ways to deal with it other than mass-immigration. But hey, if we suffer a rapture-like event I'll let you know..

And NEET exist in all countries, not just Japan.

I wonder if certain posters here will read through that and visit some of those links or just assume them to be "lefty" propaganda and move on.

I already read it before it was posted here actually.. when was the last time any leftys here read Breitbart? I read all sources.. even The Guardian *shivers*

A lot of the points are smear tactics.. A Trump supporter did something bad so it means Trump did it.. It's unconstitutional to deport those people they say, I say its unconstitutional to bring them here in the first place. Leftists like to create a huge mess and then complain and take the higher ground when someone wants to actually deal with the issue. And they said Trump says torturing someone is OK because they probably deserve it - that's hardly fascism, it's just a non-PC comment. I'd say they do deserve it if they're locked up on existing terrorism charges.

[Womble]

I'm not saying low birthrate isn't a bad thing, I'm just saying there are other ways to deal with it other than mass-immigration.

Like what?

Low birth rate is a problem that has no cure. The fewer people have children, the fewer there are in the next generation to have children. There are historical examples of nations recovering from massive demographic devastation due to war and diseases, but there is not a single historical example of a nation successfully reversing a major decline in birth rate without an inflow of another population.