The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

Well I don't say this lightly but I think Annoyed's got a point on this one.

I can't believe she couldn't afford her own private security cortege, a hybrid vehicle of some kind. That's just plain hypocrisy.

Ok, she is a first term senator, she gets paid 174k per year, of which she would have received what, about 35k of so far. She's had to set herself up in DC (something she was surprised at the cost of, and assuming she is living in an apartment, that sucks up about 9k so far since moving there), so she's got about 24k left. Minus cost of living, and she might have around 20k left.
What hybrid vehicle is she going to be able to afford?
IF she was a second term onwards, sure, you could expect her to have these things, but not yet, and if she DOESN'T, then I am sure there will be well deserved backlash.
That's why she is "living in the world as is, not what she wants". The argument has merit against someone like Al Gore, but not her, at least, not yet.

[Annoyed]

Let me respond in your own style.
It's the world she lives in, not the one she wants.

In this case, it doesn't matter what the world is. There is absolutely no reason couildn't have taken public transportation, or the shoe leather express, which she advocates for the rest of us.

How much you want to bet that if her idea of ending air travel is implemented (It won't be, she's an idiot) exceptions will be made for her and her ilk.

[Annoyed]

Ok, she is a first term senator, she gets paid 174k per year, of which she would have received what, about 35k of so far. She's had to set herself up in DC (something she was surprised at the cost of, and assuming she is living in an apartment, that sucks up about 9k so far since moving there), so she's got about 24k left. Minus cost of living, and she might have around 20k left.
What hybrid vehicle is she going to be able to afford?
IF she was a second term onwards, sure, you could expect her to have these things, but not yet, and if she DOESN'T, then I am sure there will be well deserved backlash.
That's why she is "living in the world as is, not what she wants". The argument has merit against someone like Al Gore, but not her, at least, not yet.

BS. I posted an article a week or so ago about her digs; it's a brand new luxury high rise. She CHOSE to live there and pay that rate. She could have easily chose more modest digs.

[Gatefan1976]

BS. I posted an article a week or so ago about her digs; it's a brand new luxury high rise. She CHOSE to live there and pay that rate. She could have easily chose more modest digs.

I said ASSUME she was living in an apartment, not she was.
All you are doing is making my case stronger, so, thanks?

[Annoyed]

I said ASSUME she was living in an apartment, not she was.
All you are doing is making my case stronger, so, thanks?

I'm not assuming anything. This has been widely reported.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...ments-n2541463

[Gatefan1976]

In this case, it doesn't matter what the world is.

Oh yes it does, she does not "live in your world"
Why can't the President take commercial flights?
Security risk and social prestige.

There is absolutely no reason couildn't have taken public transportation

UBER IS public transportation you idiot!! Who takes an Uber, the elite or the commonfolk?

What you are trying, and failing to do is blame the person or belief you dislike on some unrelated topic. You are like trump calling "no collusion" with a big grin on your face because you think that's the only thing that matters. Bill Clinton did not fall to Whitewater, he got impeachment hearings over lying to congress. Trump may or may not get done for Conspiracy (to use the actual term), but he KNOWS he will get destroyed in a state RICO case, but thinks because he is President, he will be immune.
He, like you, are wrong.
She needed a ride, she called an Uber, the Uber just happened to be a gas guzzler, so that's her fault?
Pathetic.

or the shoe leather express, which she advocates for the rest of us.

No she does not, because that's actually REALLY unrealistic.

How much you want to bet that if her idea of ending air travel is implemented (It won't be, she's an idiot) exceptions will be made for her and her ilk.

Within contiguous COUNTRIES, not ALL air travel. High speed rail is far more efficient and less damaging than aircraft, capable of handling more passengers, and has a potential lower carbon emission output.
Then you get into the COST of making these lines, it's in the billions, and that is true, but do you know what developing efficient infastructure does?
Creates JOBS in flyover states because they need to build and maintain those lines.
That creates a middle class, which fuels two things
1: lifestyle progression
2: Tax revenue

If you want the "heartland of America" to continue to be a tax sink for the high population cities, then shut up about paying "draconian tax" when you live in a high pop state, especially when it is your backwards simplism that FORCES them to charge such taxes or see middle America collapse.

EDIT:
OH, and before you go on about state VS federal tax, Federal tax is based on INCOME, so much more of the high population area's pay far, FAR more to be spread across the nation. The state tax is a micro version of that, where the people paying more support the outer rural area's of the state.

You know how you bang on about "taking responsibility" for your actions?
You see it as personal, but your idea's are a late term abortion for the USA.
Wanna kill that off?

[Gatefan1976]

I'm not assuming anything. This has been widely reported.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...ments-n2541463

I said I was assuming.

[Chaka-Z0]

Ok, she is a first term senator, she gets paid 174k per year, of which she would have received what, about 35k of so far. She's had to set herself up in DC (something she was surprised at the cost of, and assuming she is living in an apartment, that sucks up about 9k so far since moving there), so she's got about 24k left. Minus cost of living, and she might have around 20k left.
What hybrid vehicle is she going to be able to afford?
IF she was a second term onwards, sure, you could expect her to have these things, but not yet, and if she DOESN'T, then I am sure there will be well deserved backlash.
That's why she is "living in the world as is, not what she wants". The argument has merit against someone like Al Gore, but not her, at least, not yet.

I really don't understand why you're defending her. Are you telling me she couldn't get a loan? She's a congresswoman for crying out loud! Since when do you need the full amount to get a car?

I was able to afford a decent car at 17, not a single penny from my parents, had to pay my own tuition and everything. I worked my ass off, in a supermarket, but I did it. The monetary argument isn't one, I could've agreed a bit more with you if you talked about security reasons, maybe it's not even her own car or whatever else.

Also public transportation is an option. Really it's not that big of a deal, a congresswoman hitching a ride in a polluting car, but it's true that if she truly believes in what she says she would try to at least APPEAR like she walks the talk.

[Gatefan1976]

I really don't understand why you're defending her. Are you telling me she couldn't get a loan? She's a congresswoman for crying out loud! Since when do you need the full amount to get a car?

No, what I am telling you is that she has been a congresswoman for 4 months. Pick a Republican congresswoman for 4 months (assuming you can find one) and I would tell you the same for them.
AOC was a BARTENDER, not a rich kid, or even middle class.
How many bartenders you know drive hybrids?
What bank would give her a loan without licking their chops at a prospective long term debtor?

I was able to afford a decent car at 17, not a single penny from my parents, had to pay my own tuition and everything. I worked my ass off, in a supermarket, but I did it.

So could I and I did it in a sheet metal factory, but neither you, nor I live in the simplistic stupidity of the USA.

The monetary argument isn't one

WRONG, and THAT is the issue. I could do it in a sheet metal factory, YOU could do it in a supermarket. Hell, my wife paid for her teaching career as a checkout chick and can now make 3k a fortnight.
The people in the US don't have that option because social systems that you and I take as given are somehow "bad" for the US.

I could've agreed a bit more with you if you talked about security reasons, maybe it's not even her own car or whatever else.

Security was an aside, you guys were talking about cost, so I laid out cost.

Also public transportation is an option. Really it's not that big of a deal, a congresswoman hitching a ride in a polluting car, but it's true that if she truly believes in what she says she would try to at least APPEAR like she walks the talk.

I don't know many political people -choosing- to take public transport.

[Chaka-Z0]

No, what I am telling you is that she has been a congresswoman for 4 months. Pick a Republican congresswoman for 4 months (assuming you can find one) and I would tell you the same for them.
AOC was a BARTENDER, not a rich kid, or even middle class.
How many bartenders you know drive hybrids?
What bank would give her a loan without licking their chops at a prospective long term debtor?

Her past financial status is irrelevant. All you need for a loan is collaterals, and I'd say having a 174k salary is a good one. No banks on the face of this earth would turn down a loan to a congresswoman/man. A brand new Chevy Volt is about 40k. Some hybrids are a bit lower than that.

I've worked in a bank for a long time and I've seen people with much worse financial status granted 50-100k loans.

So could I and I did it in a sheet metal factory, but neither you, nor I live in the simplistic stupidity of the USA.

It's different in her case, she works in the busiest urban centers of the US, public transportation is available and a good option.

WRONG, and THAT is the issue. I could do it in a sheet metal factory, YOU could do it in a supermarket. Hell, my wife paid for her teaching career as a checkout chick and can now make 3k a fortnight.
The people in the US don't have that option because social systems that you and I take as given are somehow "bad" for the US.

I agree with that but I can't see how that is relevant to our discussion?

I don't know many political people -choosing- to take public transport.

The mayor of Chicago takes the bus a few times a week. I believe most of the Swiss Parliament, including the Pres, takes the tram to work everyday. Many Europeans countries do, it's not the same geographical reality than the US or Canada or Australia, but, Washington and NYC have subs trains and buses.

Granted, most of those politicians don't take the public transportation out of good will, but to gain political points.

[Annoyed]

Also public transportation is an option. Really it's not that big of a deal, a congresswoman hitching a ride in a polluting car, but it's true that if she truly believes in what she says she would try to at least APPEAR like she walks the talk.

Which is the point of my posting this stuff. She and her ilk want to make all these rules & regulations for us to adhere to, but they themselves are too good to do so.

There are more examples of Al Gore doing this kind of thing than I can remember; pushing for small cars and such while he himself rides around in a motorcade of SUV's, wasting 1 million gallons of water for a campaign photo op.

In the few short months that the Kindergartner has been on the national stage, she's shown a few example of hypocrisy already.

And as I said, I'd bet that if her pipe dreams of eliminating air travel, eliminating internal combustion and all that crap ever comes to pass, the laws will be written with exceptions for her and her ilk who are too important to be inconvenienced by such.

[Chaka-Z0]

Which is the point of my posting this stuff. She and her ilk want to make all these rules & regulations for us to adhere to, but they themselves are too good to do so.

I think it's more of a matter of adjusting to the political (sh*t) lives they live. You know, when everything from what you eat for breakfast to which toilet paper brand you wipe your ar$e with is under public scrutiny.

I'll give her the chance, but one thing I despise the most in politics, from any and all sides, is hypocrisy.

Edit
On the internal combustion engine part, it's already been done, it's called the electric motor. Also if you didn't know, the electric engine was invented decades prior to the combustion engine for cars. There is only positive sides to electric motors, you get the RPM straight to the wheels, no need for transmissions. Hell, even the high-end luxury cars are mostly electric now or hybrid since the performance is much greater (Porches, etc).

[Gatefan1976]

Her past financial status is irrelevant.

Really?
I guess that is why people are upset about digging into trump. "he's a politician now, what happened before does not matter"
Do you really want to let that fly?

All you need for a loan is collaterals, and I'd say having a 174k salary is a good one. No banks on the face of this earth would turn down a loan to a congresswoman/man. A brand new Chevy Volt is about 40k. Some hybrids are a bit lower than that.

Let's assume you are correct.
Why would someone who eschews banks be willing to take out that kind of loan?

I've worked in a bank for a long time and I've seen people with much worse financial status granted 50-100k loans.

Sure, and I have seen global recession not seen since the 1930's repeat itself based on such practices.
I have also seen such "high reward" loans been turned into vultures picking of the bones of those who could not pay.

It's different in her case, she works in the busiest urban centers of the US, public transportation is available and a good option.

I'm sorry, your vote or comment has been delayed due to traffic or roadworks.
These people NEED to be at the statehouse, be it AOC or Mitch McConnal.

I agree with that but I can't see how that is relevant to our discussion?

You said the monetary argument was a non issue.

The mayor of Chicago takes the bus a few times a week. I believe most of the Swiss Parliament, including the Pres, takes the tram to work everyday. Many Europeans countries do, it's not the same geographical reality than the US or Canada or Australia, but, Washington and NYC have subs trains and buses.

It's not the geography that is an issue, it's getting shot.

Granted, most of those politicians don't take the public transportation out of good will, but to gain political points.

With who?

[Chaka-Z0]

Interesting questions you have, I think it's good we discuss this.

Really?
I guess that is why people are upset about digging into trump. "he's a politician now, what happened before does not matter"
Do you really want to let that fly?

Not irrelevant in that sense, I was talking strictly financially speaking. What job she had before doesn't matter as collateral for a bank, meaning that they won't factor in her previous low salary job.

Let's assume you are correct.
Why would someone who eschews banks be willing to take out that kind of loan?

https://www.chevrolet.ca/byo-vc/clie...2019/volt/trim

Obv. 40k is the low figure, as the car companies love to show, we're probably talking 50k after taxes and all. Good point on bank loans though. But it raises the question, if she has contradictory opinions on banks and environment she'll need to pick one. You can't go around town driving a 1980s Silverado X71 pickup claiming you're pro-environment.

Sure, and I have seen global recession not seen since the 1930's repeat itself based on such practices.
I have also seen such "high reward" loans been turned into vultures picking of the bones of those who could not pay.

Absolutely, and trust me they used to be MUCH worse prior to 2008. Now, credit score are checked even to open a basic bank account and I've seen countless people refused mortgages as well. That is why here the Canada Insurance Deposit Corporation was created (CDIC), each bank accounts is insured up to 100k in the remote possibility your bank would go bankrupt.

I'm sorry, your vote or comment has been delayed due to traffic or roadworks.
These people NEED to be at the statehouse, be it AOC or Mitch McConnal.

Even better then, let her be late every time, it will give credence that their public transportation system SUCKS and needs to be improved.

It's not the geography that is an issue, it's getting shot.

I agree, but at some point what can you do? It is a risk every time a politician makes a public statement or speech. Only the Pres has the luxury of having protective measures really. The Pope literally throws himself into the crowds of poor people and exposes himself to even greater danger on a daily basis, why can't she?

With who?

Anybody that is pro-environment or the people in general, it looks good because *She is one of us* thinking.

[Womble]

No, what I am telling you is that she has been a congresswoman for 4 months. Pick a Republican congresswoman for 4 months (assuming you can find one) and I would tell you the same for them.
AOC was a BARTENDER, not a rich kid, or even middle class.
How many bartenders you know drive hybrids?
What bank would give her a loan without licking their chops at a prospective long term debtor?

Cortez was born to a middle class family, her father was an architect.

Bartender was her side gig, in addition to her main job as an educational director, during a short period of her life when her father died and her family struggled financially during the legal battle over her father's inheritance.