The Political Discussion Thread

[Falcon Horus]

Over here, the information goes from "definitely shot down" to 5 Belgians killed in the crash.

Known nationalities on board: 154 Dutch, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians, 6 UK, 4 Germans; 5 Belgians, 3 Filipinos, 1 Canadian

[jelgate]

17/07/2014

Malaysian airplane shot down over the Ukrain, and Israel advancing ground troops into Gaza -- thoughts anyone?

I know the first was going to happen eventually after Putin invaded Ukraine. The second sounds like the same old pointless killing again.

[Gatefan1976]

Seems as if the UN security council will be involved at some point in the near future as well.

[jelgate]

Seems as if the UN security council will be involved at some point in the near future as well.

So nothing will happen?

[Gatefan1976]

So nothing will happen?

Depends. We are currently "chair" of the SC and as this is the greatest loss of Australian life in this manner in history. The government response has been actually quite measured in terms of not jumping the gun as it were. I mean, chances are that the UN will be as effective as ever, I am as cynical as you on the UN. I dunno Jel, I just don't think there are enough facts in play yet, just a lot of hot air and finger pointing.

[Coco Pops]

What the hell is going on in the Ukraine?

OH and why is it OK for Israel to bomb everything and if anyone dares fight back, well they are bad and evil and shall be smited?

And why do conservatives fear progress, secular society, and science?

[SGalisa]

OH and why is it OK for Israel to bomb everything and if anyone dares fight back, well they are bad and evil and shall be smited?

Israel is fighting for its life--its survival. When Hamas deceived Israel and ambushed Israel, Israel defended itself and vowed to continue to do so, until a genuine truce/peace occurs.

Try to remember that it was (Jewish) Israel that was FIRST getting bombed without *warning*, and yet that same Jewish Israel in returning the "deed" has sent out messages warning civilians "to get out now, or else.." to those it is defending itself against -- when the other side (Hamas) decided NOT to do the same because conquest was (and still is) their goal. Meantime, Lebanon is striking at (Jewish) Israel from the southern end too, without warning.

BBC had a recent article questioning why was Hamas encouraging the civilian residents in Gaza to stay put or be on the front lines (as proverbial human shields -- maybe not in those words, but to that effect). Since the Malaysian airline tragedy of July 17 occurred, those humanitarian articles questioning Hamas have vanished off the front pages.

Why does Israel have to use (U.N. or whatever it is) protocol when its *enemies* do not?
The missiles hurled at Israel give anywhere from NO time to escape to 15 seconds up to 3 minutes in some areas. 15 seconds is not much time to duck for cover! And it's ZERO time if the person happens to be stuck in the bathroom attached to the *porcelain* throne.
(that issue applies to all sides and anyone)

And why do conservatives fear progress, secular society, and science?

I think there are 2 different types of conservatives (conservation?), which gets confusing when speaking of (nature) conservation vs. a political *Conservative*.

On the non-political side ----
gee, my dad taught his family to be conservative with
* finances--to save away for retirement & emergency supply moments,
* water during drought--every drop counts, so find innovative ways on how to recycle that water that is warming up before using the rest for washing dishes
* turn off the lights when not in the same room for extended use!
* eat the FOOD scraps -- "waste not--want not" ...constantly was reminded of those FAT sandwiches my relatives ate during the WWII years & thereabouts- and that means FAT like the raw suet birds eat (blech!!), not bacon fat cooked to a beautiful simmering brown crisp & aroma!

There is *sometimes* a limit to some issues on how to conserve for nature conservation or be conservative.

Anywho.. I don't fear science or progress if utilized for the good of generations living in the future.
Environmentally controlled dome home gardening may be the way of the future
--Architectural Dome building structures that are aerodynamic like the Epcott Earth in DisneyWorld--just saying.. hint, hint!

WHO fears Secular society the most? And why does it matter so much? I think what matters is whether or not someone is going to bring harm, vandalism, or destruction onto someone else--that is the key.

I'm a strong believer that people will never get along on another planet, especially if they can't get along on this little earth first. Earth is our first stepping stone to the great universe beyond, and should not be a stumbling roadblock along the way. Balance is the key, but then where and what are the balances? *sigh*

[jelgate]

What the hell is going on in the Ukraine?

OH and why is it OK for Israel to bomb everything and if anyone dares fight back, well they are bad and evil and shall be smited?

And why do conservatives fear progress, secular society, and science?

Why are you putting so much belief behind sterotypes?

[Coco Pops]

Why are you putting so much belief behind sterotypes?

Stereotypes how?

[Gatefan1976]

Why are you putting so much belief behind sterotypes?

He isn't, he is merely looking from a different perspective.

What really is going on in Ukraine?
Is this an attempt to draw in the international community, an accident? A side effect of the "war" in the area?

Israel currently holds a (roughly) 200-1 kill ratio against Palestine, yet the West is always defending the actions of Israel, even when some of their strikes are on -at least perceived to be- Civilian targets. Yet the same strikes (retaliatory or aggressive) are decried by the West. This has nothing to do with "Anti-Semitism" or "Anti-Zionism" it is the cold hard facts. We could argue WHY Israel is where it is, Be it Historical, Economic, or Defence of Western Interests, but that is a whole new can of worms, and one I am not going to enter into on this thread.

As For Co-Co's observation on Conservatives, it is OBVIOUS where he is coming from. It could only be more Obvious if he held up a sign stating *and YES I mean religious conservativsm* while wearing a captain obvious outfit at the local T.E.D. convention. Any attempt to change that - such as SGalisa's observation - is a sham designed to move the topic away from social conservatism to economic conservatism.

[Falcon Horus]

Israel is fighting for its life--its survival. When Hamas deceived Israel and ambushed Israel, Israel defended itself and vowed to continue to do so, until a genuine truce/peace occurs.

I have but one reply to give...



Make that two... simple bit of history (which is far more complicated than what is shown in this video but it's a start)...

A short introduction about occupied Palestine

[Coco Pops]

I have but one reply to give...



Make that two... simple bit of history (which is far more complicated than what is shown in this video but it's a start)...

A short introduction about occupied Palestine

So I put it to you people..

Don't the Palestinians also deserve their own land? Or are they just expendable?

[Falcon Horus]

We are also getting reports that a few of the passengers were heading out here for are AIDS awareness and "activists" (not sure what that is supposed to mean) conference.

This is now explained -- it was a leading scientist and his assistent in HIV/AIDS research who was on board and on their way to a conference in Melbourne.

[Gatefan1976]

This is now explained -- it was a leading scientist and his assistent in HIV/AIDS research who was on board and on their way to a conference in Melbourne.

I was actually thinking of the... umm, "side effects" of a country with harsh LGBT laws being associated with targeting a flight with AIDS researchers.

Fortunately, that seems not to be the case here.

[Gatefan1976]

So I put it to you people..

Don't the Palestinians also deserve their own land? Or are they just expendable?

From a Western Military Perspective, they are Expendable.