The Political Discussion Thread

[Annoyed]

That's how change happens. Imagine a better world and then try to put things in place to make it happen. If everyone accepted things "the way they were" we would all still be chasing mammoths across the plains with pointy sticks..

Ok, but I insist on using my imagination, I don't like yours.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

Ok, but I insist on using my imagination, I don't like yours.

But yours would have us going backwards..

[jelgate]

I can go sideways

[Womble]

From the department of epic fails: the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has presented the Saudi King with a commemorative gift from Palestinian history- a framed page of the Palestine Post newspaper.

Let's see who here can figure out what is hilariously wrong with that fact without using Google.

[Ian-S]

He's also threatened us with:

World War III, it seems the UK being in the EU is the only thing preventing it

Economic collapse, the UK economy is so important that the entire world is dependant on it for stability. If it is really that strong it should be able to exist independently, right?

House prices will fall. A good thing! No one can afford to buy one now with the artificially inflated prices caused by a high demand and a low supply

No more trading ever! Even though trade is a two way thing, The EU exports more to the UK than the UK does to the EU. Cameron insists trade deals will take years to sort out. Except we've been trading with the US for 200 ish years without an official agreement, and no issues, so which is it? And it's worth pointing out that EU laws state that no member state can trade with countries outside the bloc without the agreement of all 28 member states. It has to have an official EU approved trade agreement. Leaving the EU would free the UK to trade with the rest of the world without needing the EU's approval, or years of negotiations to set up a deal.

The Punishment Budget. This one was just last week. Lots of new cuts and tax hikes to fill the hole made by saving all the money sent to the EU... Wait.. That can't be right..

Airline fees will go up! I had no idea the EU was in charge of setting those..

No more workers' rights! If only we have a functional government who could create laws to protect workers.. Maybe some kind of workers' union.. But that's just crazy right?

The NHS would be privatised! Why would it? Is the EU the only thing preventing that? The NHS existed long before the EU was created, so it can clearly survive without it.


etc... There were lots more, but I think you get the point. The whole world is in danger if the UK leaves the EU Every week there was a new threat of how voting out would destroy us all. Even though a few months ago he said the UK could survive outside the EU. It's only since the referendum was announced that he changed his mind and started telling us all it would be political and economic suicide to leave. So why give us the option if it's so dangerous?

I would give you truck loads of green if I could

I don't think he ever changed his mind, just the culture shock of realising the public doesn't share the same fantasy utopian view of the EU has sent him into headless chicken mode, especially more so since he's given the Country the decision, frankly it's scared him ****less, imho.

[SoulReaver]

If you could at least keep the nutjobs from owning a gun, or buying one (or two, or three) legally... That would be a very good start.

Until then -- prayers and thoughts will have to get your through your next mass shooting and more people are going to die because some freakin' idiots can't remember they live in 2016 AD and not in 1875AD.

american citizens don't need nutjobs among them for the killings - their own police do a very good job at gunning them down on a regular basis. lol

The NHS would be privatised!

dunno if the EU could play any part in provoking or preventing this, but the risk is real (how long till the UK has a US-style system - that'll be the day hehe...)

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

I would give you truck loads of green if I could

I don't think he ever changed his mind, just the culture shock of realising the public doesn't share the same fantasy utopian view of the EU has sent him into headless chicken mode, especially more so since he's given the Country the decision, frankly it's scared him ****less, imho.

Every decision Cameron has made has been overturned a few weeks later. He will be remembered for his constant U-turns. Whenever he says something he ends up doing the opposite. And not just on the EU. Every single time he's made a decision.

[Ian-S]

Not just him but most of his Government, coke snorter soon backtracked on those Tax Credit changes did't he? As I said their decision making proceeds seem more 'opinion poll' based than anything else. (What I meant was I think he's always wanted to stay, just pretended to want to leave playing a game of chess then made a rash promise in the heat of the moment he couldn't ever go back on).

The NHS was privatised years ago, you have contractors running entire departments (a friend is a mobile radiography operator on a mobile setup that tours the country, the entire operation is privately operated), hospitals effectively run themselves through the trust scheme (similar to school academies) and most staff are agencies, the NHS ceased being a centrally run institution yonks ago.

If anything the EU contributed to this by their own anticompetitive laws which basically make it a requirement that certain types of contracts have to be put out to tender to private industry to be run.

Just look at cross rail and hs2, I'm sure they'd cost a fraction of the final figure if they were constructrd by the government instead of sub contractors.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

HS2 is pointless. It will cut journey times between Manchester and London by 20 minutes. It's already about 100 years out of date.

It's a vanity project. Something that he thinks will mean he's proudly remembered as a hero to the north, better transport links with London.

You know what we really need in the north? More jobs. Not better access to the south. More local development. And not just in Manchester. Manchester has been redeveloped and modernised so much that they've had to knock down some of the older regeneration to build newer things.

Being able to get into London that little bit faster doesn't help me at all.

[Ian-S]

Yup, I live about 30 miles South of London and avoid it like the plague, its a horrible place, dunno why anybody in their right mind would want to get there quicker, if you're north of Watford stay there, much nicer overall.

Driving to Manchester tomorrow as it happens, not a great fan of cities, but once you get past out into the sticks its lovely.

[SoulReaver]

You know what we really need in the north?

a warden?
a king?
a wall?

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

I lived about 20 miles north of London while I was at university, I worked in Camden so had to travel into London four days a week.

[Ian-S]

I'm sorry, I hope the experience didn't permantly scar you.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

I'm still trying to clear the soot out of my lungs.. The air quality in London is awful..

[Ian-S]

Yup....