The Political Discussion Thread

[Gatefan1976]

So no one wants to give me specifics?

What kind of gun is suitable for defending one's home? And why would you need that particular type of gun?

Small to medium calibre handgun, preferably a revolver style weapon. If you miss with 6 rounds, and the person is still hanging around to get shot, he is either crazy, or you don't deserve to have the gun in the first place.
Of course, that is in a city situation.
In the "country" however, semi-automatics are probably more useful as you tend to be defending your home against smaller targets which move fast (so tracking is useful), or larger targets that require more to stop.
Point being, different situations require/deserve a different response.

[aretood2]

you already know the odds in your own country in the event of such a conflict (3 million military & law personnel with bulletproof vests, small arms & heavy artillery, versus hundreds of millions of civies with small arms), even if you don't know the more likely outcome
despite the superior numbers for the people I'd still say the odds are in favour of government
so the main reason to take up arms would be, not to overthrow the government, but to kill as many G-men as possible before going down (an honourable reason in some cases maybe)

so for argument's sake suppose the new rogue US regime is one akin to Stalin or Kim Jong's - you'd have the choice of bending the knee & surviving (a ****ty life, but at least you'd live longer as long as you played by the new rules), or taking up arms for the sake of honour with only a very slim hope of winning. which would it be?

ps. I reckon there's always a 3rd option (join an underground resistance) but apparently that's out of the question

The problem is, that governments act only and when the people consent to it. And yes, as a whole people do consent to governmental abuse. In Egypt, the government loss that consent and the military saw that and it's why it ended up siding with the people. In China, while many would complain and don't like the government, the government remains in power not because the people don't have guns, but because they still believe that the Communist regime retains the mandate of heaven. In Tunisia, same as in Egypt, the people did not consent. In Cuba, the communist revolution won because as a whole, the people largely did not consent to the previous dictatorship but they are putting up with the current communist regime.

So the US military will side with the government if the people as a whole consent. Don't mistake the term as the people embracing or liking a "rogue" US government, but it means that even if they hate it they are willing to go along with it because they don't see another viable option or they were seduced by the promises of that regime. In either case, it doesn't matter if there are 700 million citizens to ten thousand soldiers. If enough of the 700 Million refuse to openly fight, those 10,000 soldiers will retain control.

[Coco Pops]

Small to medium calibre handgun, preferably a revolver style weapon. If you miss with 6 rounds, and the person is still hanging around to get shot, he is either crazy, or you don't deserve to have the gun in the first place.
Of course, that is in a city situation.
In the "country" however, semi-automatics are probably more useful as you tend to be defending your home against smaller targets which move fast (so tracking is useful), or larger targets that require more to stop.
Point being, different situations require/deserve a different response.

Smaller targets? Like what exactly?

What will invade your home that you need a semi automatic weapon for? Possums?

[Annoyed]

So no one wants to give me specifics?

What kind of gun is suitable for defending one's home? And why would you need that particular type of gun?

Might I suggest these Phaser Rifles?

[SoulReaver]

The problem is, that governments act only and when the people consent to it. And yes, as a whole people do consent to governmental abuse. In Egypt, the government loss that consent and the military saw that and it's why it ended up siding with the people. In China, while many would complain and don't like the government, the government remains in power not because the people don't have guns, but because they still believe that the Communist regime retains the mandate of heaven. In Tunisia, same as in Egypt, the people did not consent. In Cuba, the communist revolution won because as a whole, the people largely did not consent to the previous dictatorship but they are putting up with the current communist regime.

that they still see their government as "communist" is even funnier

what about North Korea? does porKim really have > 100% popularity with the people? +_+

[Gatefan1976]

Smaller targets? Like what exactly?

What will invade your home that you need a semi automatic weapon for? Possums?

The defence is not so much for your life in such instances, but property. A .223 semi auto might not be a significant threat to a -person- to a degree in terms of killing them, but it will kill vermin that could financially destroy you like rabbits, cats and dogs. (cats and dogs includes their feral / undomesticated versions)
Like I said, different considerations are in play in each situation.
If you have to deal with larger wild animals, larger calibres become more viable. (do not try to deal with Kangaroo's, or bears with a .223, all you will do is annoy them for the most part).

Again, the point is to deal with each situation as needed, not what is "feared".

[Gatefan1976]

Might I suggest these Phaser Rifles?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41232[/ATTACH]

Phase rifles can blow up meters of solid rock, hardly a measured "self defence" option

[Coco Pops]

Might I suggest these Phaser Rifles?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41232[/ATTACH]

Hah!!!!!

Try getting those through customs here. They ban stuff like that. Even obvious movie prop guns that you buy can be banned upon inspection and confiscated. The guns from the movie Timecop for example .. You can buy replicas but they'll be impounded.

Stupid customs people.

[Gatefan1976]

Hah!!!!!

Try getting those through customs here. They ban stuff like that. Even obvious movie prop guns that you buy can be banned upon inspection and confiscated. The guns from the movie Timecop for example .. You can buy replicas but they'll be impounded.

Stupid customs people.

Umm, no they won't.
The law deals with -replica's- of REAL weapons, they won't stop a ST phase rifle.
Where the hell are you getting your info from Coco?
I know of stories where solid resin replica's have been seized, yet the same resin replica's are legal to be bought -inside of Australia-, just not imported.
Seriously, you are in Victoria, right?
Go to the Queen Victoria markets sometime.

[mad_gater]

since the equivalent of the Bush midget you might as well say that W jr is also left-wing while you're at it - but many conservatives won't be pleased with that hehe
that fascist POS even passed a more aggressive version of the Homeland Security/Patriot Acts (allowing authorities to use live ammo during riots)

compared to the LSoS, Bush Jr. was as conservative as Ronald Regan

[mad_gater]

in fact I wonder what could've saved Michael Brown, Walter Scott or Diaz Zeferino (all victims of gun violence)

can't speak to the latter 2 people as I never heard much about them...but MIchael Brown a victim? that's as patently false as a pile of fool's gold

Michael Brown was a thug who got what was coming to him...nothing more...nothing less.

There is video footage all over the internet of this so-called "gentle giant" strong-arming a store clerk and medical evidence of Officer Wilson having been beaten by the so-called "gentle giant" so badly an eye orbit was fractured. All because the officer rightfully wouldn't relinquish his firearm to the so-called "gentle giant."

[SoulReaver]

can't speak to the latter 2 people as I never heard much about them...but MIchael Brown a victim? that's as patently false as a pile of fool's gold

Michael Brown was a thug who got what was coming to him...nothing more...nothing less.

There is video footage all over the internet of this so-called "gentle giant" strong-arming a store clerk and medical evidence of Officer Wilson having been beaten by the so-called "gentle giant" so badly an eye orbit was fractured. All because the officer rightfully wouldn't relinquish his firearm to the so-called "gentle giant."

(you missed the entire point of that post but nvm)

"fool's gold"? you as a commoner, try shooting someone who's "threatening" you with his fists, and see what happens & who will feel foolish then. lol. I bet the SS won't be as lenient with you as they were with their colleague, neither will the DA
your argument would have some credence if your law were the same for all classes but it isn't

anyway the latter 2 happen to be the most interesting

Walter Scott was shot in the back while running away (some traffic offence, and he skipped a month alimony payment for his estranged wife or something)

Diaz Zeferino was actually the brother of a burglary victim & was looking for the stolen bike, he was mistaken for a suspect & shot for...taking off his baseball cap (the vid's on the web after a federal judge ordered its release). whoever puts a bullet in his killers' head, will truly deserve to be called a Freedom Fighter

[Gatefan1976]

can't speak to the latter 2 people as I never heard much about them...but MIchael Brown a victim? that's as patently false as a pile of fool's gold

Michael Brown was a thug who got what was coming to him...nothing more...nothing less.

For what?

There is video footage all over the internet of this so-called "gentle giant" strong-arming a store clerk and medical evidence of Officer Wilson having been beaten by the so-called "gentle giant" so badly an eye orbit was fractured. All because the officer rightfully wouldn't relinquish his firearm to the so-called "gentle giant."

He was a thief, sure.
Did he deserve the death penalty?
The same forensic evidence that supports Wilson -also- suggests that Brown tried to surrender at some point.
So, which way do you err on?

In addition, I have -never- heard that Brown asked Wilson to relinquish his weapon, unless you are referring to a physical altercation between the two involving the gun, something that is not supported at all by the evidence, and a physical altercation with a "giant" will generally not end well for the "non-giant".

[Womble]

Small to medium calibre handgun, preferably a revolver style weapon. If you miss with 6 rounds, and the person is still hanging around to get shot, he is either crazy, or you don't deserve to have the gun in the first place.

That's what I recently told an American woman friend of mine who said she wanted to get a gun for home defense. If you HAVE to get a handgun, get a .38 revolver. If you want the best gun for the job, get a side-by-side 20 gauge shotgun with bird shot. Inside your home, you only need to shoot twice - once for warning, once center mass if the attacker didn't heed the warning. The gun should make as much noise and flash as possible (for fear factor) and give off as little recoil as possible. Low-power rounds that won't go through walls, and the type of firing mechanism that is least likely to jam.

And then, of course, she did the American thing - went and got a 12 gauge pump action shotgun because some macho told her about stopping power and 8 rounds. The worst, least safe possible weapon for a home with children, most difficult to make sure that you haven't left a round in the chamber when unloading the damn thing. The worst for a woman to shoot indoors because it kicks like a mule and is entirely too powerful even with buckshot if it hits the wall. Oh, that Second Amendment.

[Gatefan1976]

That's what I recently told an American woman friend of mine who said she wanted to get a gun for home defense. If you HAVE to get a handgun, get a .38 revolver. If you want the best gun for the job, get a side-by-side 20 gauge shotgun with bird shot. Inside your home, you only need to shoot twice - once for warning, once center mass if the attacker didn't heed the warning. The gun should make as much noise and flash as possible (for fear factor) and give off as little recoil as possible. Low-power rounds that won't go through walls, and the type of firing mechanism that is least likely to jam.

Gadzoooks!!, Jumping Jehosaphats!!!
We Agree!!
Responsible armed defence!!

And then, of course, she did the American thing - went and got a 12 gauge pump action shotgun because some macho told her about stopping power and 8 rounds.

Well, to be fair, it will stop things, just possibly not what you thought you were aiming for

The worst, least safe possible weapon for a home with children, most difficult to make sure that you haven't left a round in the chamber when unloading the damn thing. The worst for a woman to shoot indoors because it kicks like a mule and is entirely too powerful even with buckshot if it hits the wall. Oh, that Second Amendment.

My name is Gatefan, and I approve of this sarcasm