The Political Discussion Thread

[mad_gater]

Or vote one into the country they are already in.

yeah...except for one slight problem....the vast majority in this country aren't gonna surrender to the slavery of communism without a fight

give me liberty or give me death....I'll have liberty or if necessary I'll take up arms to preserve it or die trying

[Ukko]

yeah...except for one slight problem....the vast majority in this country aren't gonna surrender to the slavery of communism without a fight

But the people who like communism have as much right to stay where they are and vote for communist parties as you do for the republicans or democrats. They dont have to leave. I dont think you would like it if someone told you "You dont like Obama? Well, then leave the US"

Edit: I just heard a stargate joke on mock the week

[Ukko]

give me liberty or give me death....I'll have liberty or if necessary I'll take up arms to preserve it or die trying

And in a land of liberty people a free to believe what they want. You keep comming with phrases like that but you dont seem to understand them. If you're willing to fight to the death for freedom and liberty then you have to except that that includes peoples freedom to believe in things you dont like.

[mad_gater]

But the people who like communism have as much right to stay where they are and vote for communist parties as you do for the republicans or democrats. They dont have to leave. I dont think you would like it if someone told you "You dont like Obama? Well, then leave the US"

Edit: I just heard a stargate joke on mock the week

communism and its ideals have no place in a free country......our ancestors fought, bled and died in 2 wars with the British to throw off the yoke of their tyranny....and our obligation to their memory is to never again allow tyranny quarter amongst us...and communism is one of the most tyrannical forms of government there is....you say our country is not truly free because we'd fight those who would surrender our liberty for the false comforts of slavery....but all we're doing is protecting what was given to us by the blood of our ancestors from enemies of liberty

Samuel Adams said it best:

"The liberties of our Country, the freedom of our civil constitution are worth defending at all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have receiv'd them as a fair Inheritance from our worthy Ancestors: They purchas'd them for us with toil and danger and expence of treasure and blood; and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle; or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men. Of the latter we are in most danger at present: Let us therefore be aware of it. Let us contemplate our forefathers and posterity; and resolve to maintain the rights bequeath'd to us from the former, for the sake of the latter. — Instead of sitting down satisfied with the efforts we have already made, which is the wish of our enemies, the necessity of the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection, deliberation, fortitude, and perseverance. Let us remember that 'if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom.' It is a very serious consideration, which should deeply impress our minds, that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event."

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

[mad_gater]

And in a land of liberty people a free to believe what they want. You keep comming with phrases like that but you dont seem to understand them. If you're willing to fight to the death for freedom and liberty then you have to except that that includes peoples freedom to believe in things you dont like.

yes you do have a right to believe that slavery is all hunky-dory.....however not everyone thinks that....and the vast majority have the right to fight the yoke of communism should it be successfully voted in....so simply put should communism ever be successfully voted in you'll have a blood bath....because those of us who didn't vote for slavery have a right to resist it

[mad_gater]

not to mention some who might vote for it but find out later communism isn't what it was cracked up to be have the right to change their minds and fight alongside those who resist tyranny

[Ukko]

communism and its ideals have no place in a free country......our ancestors fought, bled and died in 2 wars with the British to throw off the yoke of their tyranny....and our obligation to their memory is to never again allow tyranny quarter amongst us...and communism is one of the most tyrannical forms of government there is....you say our country is not truly free because we'd fight those who would surrender our liberty for the false comforts of slavery....but all we're doing is protecting what was given to us by the blood of our ancestors from enemies of liberty

Samuel Adams said it best:

"The liberties of our Country, the freedom of our civil constitution are worth defending at all hazards: And it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have receiv'd them as a fair Inheritance from our worthy Ancestors: They purchas'd them for us with toil and danger and expence of treasure and blood; and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle; or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men. Of the latter we are in most danger at present: Let us therefore be aware of it. Let us contemplate our forefathers and posterity; and resolve to maintain the rights bequeath'd to us from the former, for the sake of the latter. — Instead of sitting down satisfied with the efforts we have already made, which is the wish of our enemies, the necessity of the times, more than ever, calls for our utmost circumspection, deliberation, fortitude, and perseverance. Let us remember that 'if we suffer tamely a lawless attack upon our liberty, we encourage it, and involve others in our doom.' It is a very serious consideration, which should deeply impress our minds, that millions yet unborn may be the miserable sharers of the event."

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."

Yeah, that doesnt change the fact that if someone believes in communism, in a free society, they have the freedom to do so. They have the freedom to vote for a communist party and they are free to dissagree with you just like you are free to dissagree with them.

You dont have the right to tell people what to do with their liberty.

[Ukko]

yes you do have a right to believe that slavery is all hunky-dory.....however not everyone thinks that....and the vast majority have the right to fight the yoke of communism should it be successfully voted in....so simply put should communism ever be successfully voted in you'll have a blood bath....because those of us who didn't vote for slavery have a right to resist it

not to mention some who might vote for it but find out later communism isn't what it was cracked up to be have the right to change their minds and fight alongside those who resist tyranny

None of this changes the fact that they are free to stay where they are and believe or vote for what they want. Not, believe what you believe or get out.

And its nice to hear you talk about democracy yet threaten violence and blood if things dont go your way.

[mad_gater]

Yeah, that doesnt change the fact that if someone believes in communism, in a free society, they have the freedom to do so. They have the freedom to vote for a communist party and they are free to dissagree with you just like you are free to dissagree with them.

You dont have the right to tell people what to do with their liberty.

nevermind the whole oxymoron of having anti-liberty beliefs in a liberty-loving nation.....any who actively pursue tyranny in a free nation oughta be charged as a traitor to the liberty our nation was built on.....the very fact that there would be a massive war if tyranny ever gained a foothold in this country is specifically the reason why Samuel Adams asks those who love tyranny and being subject to tyranny to leave us in peace.....so that that very bloodbath could be avoided

[Ukko]

nevermind the whole oxymoron of having anti-liberty beliefs in a liberty-loving nation.....any who actively pursue tyranny in a free nation oughta be charged as a traitor to the liberty our nation was built on.....the very fact that there would be a massive war if tyranny ever gained a foothold in this country is specifically the reason why Samuel Adams asks those who love tyranny and being subject to tyranny to leave us in peace.....so that that very bloodbath could be avoided

Such as telling people what to do with their liberty and freedom.

[SF_and_Coffee]

you forget that communism and democracy are 2 completely different forms of government...one is for freedom the other is for 100% total domination of the people by government

Actually, no. You're confusing communism with totalitarianism. And no, this isn't about dictionaries; it's about politics. Political science, a course which you might want to take sometime.

Totalitarianism is about control of people, period.

Communism is a particular economic philosophy, and is more fully explained here.

Socialism is yet a third entity, explained here.

There is no one in this thread who appears to be advocating for communism in any way, shape or form. You, however, are advocating for totalitarianism by insisting that no one has the right to attempt to alter the way things are done in the United States. A society in which individuals do not have the right to influence their own government and its policies is by definition a totalitarian one. Since the United States has never been, and heavens willing, never will be a totalitarian nation, perhaps you should look for a totalitarian nation to move to.

[mad_gater]

Such as telling people what to do with their liberty and freedom.

no it's you whose telling me that I must accept the fact that there are people in this once proud nation who actively seek to subject the whole population to the tyranny of communism and subvert the gift our ancestors left us....many will not allow such subversion to occur without fighting until their dying breath to prevent it

[mad_gater]

it seems to me you really don't give a rat's backside if there is a blood bath between liberty-lovers and those who would vote for tyranny...but I do.....I don't want to have to fight to preserve liberty but I will if I must and I would shed a thousand tears in hopes that the next libertarian government be stronger than the last and include stronger safeguards against those who would subvert liberty

[mad_gater]

anyone wants to hold communist ideals...fine....be advised though that any attempt to put such ideals in practice will not end well...even should the communists win...enough of a blood bath will occur to ensure the Communists a very very pyrrhic victory indeed

[Ukko]

no it's you whose telling me that I must accept the fact that there are people in this once proud nation who actively seek to subject the whole population to the tyranny of communism and subvert the gift our ancestors left us....many will not allow such subversion to occur without fighting until their dying breath to prevent it

No, im telling you that if you truly believe in freedom and liberty as you claim, then you must accept that there will be people who dont agree with you and who'se beliefs differ from yours, and that those people have as much right as you do to stay where they are, in a country that allows them to have the freedom to believe in what they want, not what others tell them to believe; and that they have as much right as you do, to vote for what ever party or candidate they want in a country that allows parties of opposing views to exist.